I Told You So

Author: ethang5

Posts

Total: 59
Topic's author
#1
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
Sorry to have to say it, but I did tell you so.

Dart has many more members now, but less activity. Why?

1. Ubiquity
One member is every where. Post a debate and he is likely to take you up. Post a thread and he is likely to respond. Members here want to interact with people, not just one loony guy. Though he has not done anything specifically wrong, his ubiquity discourages activity on the board. And that is now showing.

2. Obsession.
One member with a "God does not exist" obsession derails every thread in the religion board. His reply to any topic is, "God does not exist". What if people want to discuss God? Is not the religion board for that purpose? This attitude is repeated on other boards with people obsessed with other subjects, like Trump haters on politics board, evolution deniers on the science board, etc. Obsessions discourage activity on the board. And that is now showing.

3. Militancy
Members whose first post to an innocuous comments are filled with bile and vitriol. Members are at a loss on how to respond to a first post with anger and insult that is frankly inexplicable. There are people on the politics board for example, who seem to think they own the board, and will lash out in ad-hom at anything that personally offends them. Militancy discourage activity on the board. And that is now showing.

4. Naysayers
Any path suggested. Any path whatsoever, is immediately opposed by the naysayers. Mods or owners who will not lead will leave the board in paralysis as the naysayers play tug-of-war. And when the mod or owner makes a decision, he will be accused of being an authoritarian. This will happen.

At some point, (possibly already past) hard decisions will have to be made. An old established board could possibly absorb such infectious personalities. But a new board cannot. It must be protected till it is strong enough to accommodate these things.

We have the history of countless boards before us. Let's not make the same mistakes again.

#2
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Should I show people your post history on ddo?
#3
Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,089
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
I agree DA needs to build itself up and not act like a extension of DDO.
#4
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Earth
Check out ethangs forum posts on ddo and come back with who should be removed here.
#5
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@ethang5
I agree these problems were to be expected. They're occupational hazards of any forum, our ex-forum more so than most. But hitting turbulence doesn't mean the plane is going down. It means you want a pilot with a steady hand on the controls. I have faith Mike can be that pilot, or appoint a worthy co-pilot.

In a new forum it's not unusual to see a brief initial period of anarchy. People test the limits until there's pushback from an administration that lays down the law and establishes its authority. I can understand why you'd be impatient for that to happen soon.

If the contents of a post contain nothing but a personal attack that you did not provoke, it should just be reported to Mike immediately. Not much else we can do, except block them. He should quickly get an idea of who is consistently antagonistic. I know you've done your due diligence when it comes to reporting aggression. Hopefully the new ability to keep someone from @ing you will further mitigate our troubles.
#6
drafterman
drafterman's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 5,653
3
6
9
drafterman's avatar
drafterman
3
6
9
I disagree with creating threads to call people out. But if you're going to do it, then do it. This passive-aggressive "one member" nonsense is for the birds. If you don't have the conviction or internal fortitude to actually identify the problem by name, then you really aren't in a position to criticize other people for not dealing with it.
#7
Imabench
Imabench's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 934
3
4
9
Imabench's avatar
Imabench
3
4
9
Lol...... This site has been in existence for maybe 3-4 weeks tops and your complaining about lack of activity?..... 90% of people on here are refugees from DDO who are just glad that they can log onto the site and see that there have NOT been 400 spam threads created since the last time they posted in a thread they were following, If anything the peace and quiet should be welcomed.....

If anything, the lack of activity is a good thing because it allows the admins to continue crafting the site to the way they want it, rather then having to constantly plug holes a site that has large amounts of traffic+activity would cause. 


#8
Imabench
Imabench's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 934
3
4
9
Imabench's avatar
Imabench
3
4
9
-->
@drafterman
Thats Ethang for you.... Never has any good ideas, and then still manages to find a way to screw it up. 
#9
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Say what you want about Ethang. At least he is using the same user name and not hiding who he was at DDO. 
#10
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@RationalMadman
Should I show people your post history on ddo?
I think you shouldn't. When we drag up a member's personal history on DDO it always turns into a flamewar of dirty laundry. We don't need more of those. I know he brought you up first, but a retaliatory smear campaign isn't going to help anything.*

* Will just make things worse, in fact.
Topic's author
#11
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
Should I show people your post history on ddo?
Sure. I arguably had the most activity around my name. Your judgement of what is offensive is suspect. Some people here are thread killers. They enter a thread and activity dies.

I agree DA needs to build itself up and not act like a extension of DDO.
Words of wisdom right now, especially for the politics board.

But hitting turbulence doesn't mean the plane is going down.
The slowdown in activity is a symptom. An average no-response time of more than two hours for an entire board is worthy of attention.

In a new forum it's not unusual to see a brief initial period of anarchy.
I come from DDO. Dart has not yet seen arnarchy. I'm talking about activity stifling behavior, not anarchy. It will silently kill the forum.

I disagree with creating threads to call people out. But if you're going to do it, then do it.
This is not a call out thread, you miss the point if you think it is. Ethan is not "pass-aggressive". Not everything boils down to a me against you metric.

If you don't have the conviction or internal fortitude to actually identify the problem by name, then you really aren't in a position to criticize other people for not dealing with it.
The three problems were listed and identified. And no criticism was meant. This is a warning, not against people, but against behaviors. I have no interest in individuals, just behaviors.

This site has been in existence for maybe 3-4 weeks tops and your complaining about lack of activity?
Warning about the change in activity. There is a difference between a complaint and constructive criticism.

If anything the peace and quiet should be welcomed..... 
Dart is not DDO. We should not accept forum killing behavior because another thread is bad. No one comes to a debate board for "peace and quiet".

Thats Ethang for you.... Never has any good ideas, and then still manages to find a way to screw it up.
Exhibit A


I know he brought you up first, 

If you don't have the conviction or internal fortitude to actually identify the problem by name,
Can both these be right? I either named people or I did not. Which is it?

At least he is using the same user name and not hiding who he was at DDO.
People hide who have something to hide. This isn't a smear. It isn't a call-out, it isn't a request to ban anyone. It is a warning meant to be timely.

Responding to a post like this with antagonism and acrimony only highlights what the post is talking about. 

Now, do we want to fight it out here, or do we want to address the issues as one board and find solutions acceptable to all?
#12
Zeichen
Zeichen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 186
0
1
6
Zeichen's avatar
Zeichen
0
1
6
-->
@ethang5
I arguably had the most activity around my name.
This is incorrect. 

In fact, people who did not use the religion forum on DDO have no knowledge of who you are. You were an irrelevant member there, and are an irrelevant member here.

#13
Smithereens
Smithereens's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 502
2
2
4
Smithereens's avatar
Smithereens
2
2
4
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Say what you want about Ethang. At least he is using the same user name and not hiding who he was at DDO.
Neon sign saying you're largely disconnected from the rest of DDO. This is how it is though, the religion forum never really did interact with any of the other forums. You were your own island and now that you're seeing the rest of us for the first time we're unfamiliar faces. Everyone here however knows each other and knows the religious users. You know other religious users and nobody beyond that. 

That's really the only way I can explain the fact that you think there are people hiding who they were on DDO.

#14
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@Zeichen
I arguably had the most activity around my name.
This is incorrect. 

In fact, people who did not use the religion forum on DDO have no knowledge of who you are. You were an irrelevant member there, and are an irrelevant member here.
I see no need to hand out labels like "irrelevant" to our fellow members and human beings.
#15
Zeichen
Zeichen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 186
0
1
6
Zeichen's avatar
Zeichen
0
1
6
-->
@Castin
I see no need to hand out labels like "irrelevant" to our fellow members and human beings. 
Irrelevant. =)

#16
Smithereens
Smithereens's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 502
2
2
4
Smithereens's avatar
Smithereens
2
2
4
-->
@Castin
I see no need to hand out labels like "irrelevant" to our fellow members and human beings
as someone who has had long conversations with Ethang on DDO I can attest that this won't offend him, and it's also accurate. 
#17
Zeichen
Zeichen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 186
0
1
6
Zeichen's avatar
Zeichen
0
1
6
-->
@Smithereens
as someone who has had long conversations with Ethang on DDO I can attest that this won't offend him, and it's also accurate. 
Exactly.

#18
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
Srsly, why are people here so intensely committed to personal bitterness.
#19
Zeichen
Zeichen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 186
0
1
6
Zeichen's avatar
Zeichen
0
1
6
I would note that users like Castin, who continually try to moderate the posts of other users, are detrimental to the site.
#20
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
*shrug* I'm a member talking to members. No more, no less, no claim otherwise.
#21
XLAV
XLAV's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 251
0
1
5
XLAV's avatar
XLAV
0
1
5
Some members prefer to lurk and not post, you know. 
#22
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Smithereens
No offense but I am sick of your religion forum bigot bs. DDO is dead. Get over it. 
Topic's author
#23
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
I arguably had the most activity around my name. 
This is incorrect
No. It is correct. Even this thread is an example.

In fact, people who did not use the religion forum on DDO have no knowledge of who you are.
That does not change the truth of what I said. Activity flourished where I posted. How many know who I am is not the point.

You were an irrelevant member there, and are an irrelevant member here.
I don't care for "relevance" here, or what you consider relevance. And I doubt many others do. The point here is behaviors that inhibit the growth of this board.

I see no need to hand out labels like "irrelevant" to our fellow members and human beings. 
Other than petty emotionalism, there isn't any.

as someone who has had long conversations with Ethang on DDO I can attest that this won't offend him,
Because things like that are not worth being bothered about. But I would be bothered if this site doesn't succeed.

...and it's also accurate. 
It is telling that a person could think their opinion of another persons "relevance" was worth posting or that it coincided with reality. Ethan could not care less what you think of him, he does care though about activity stifling behavior on the board. He is willing to bet that the owner of the board shares that care.

I would note that users like Castin, who continually try to moderate the posts of other users, are detrimental to the site.
Not only is Castin relevant in ways you can never comprehend, she is not activity poison. Her hang-out on DDO, was the most active board, and lasted the longest on the forum.

There is a reason why your hangout was dying long before the spammers finally killed you, and why you felt the need to change your name here.

Srsly, why are people here so intensely committed to personal bitterness. 
Being themselves. They killed DDO with their pettiness, and have set themselves to do it here too. This is what they think a debate site should be, crass, vitriolic, militant, a personal arena for their drama. Such behavior will kill this site, and they will simply move to the next site, rinse and repeat.

We can take the warning, or let the militant naysayers immobilize us. With no decision from us, the decision will be made for us. He/she who has ears, let them hear.
#24
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Smithereens
Neon sign saying you're largely disconnected from the rest of DDO. This is how it is though, the religion forum never really did interact with any of the other forums. You were your own island and now that you're seeing the rest of us for the first time we're unfamiliar faces. Everyone here however knows each other and knows the religious users. You know other religious users and nobody beyond that. 
This isn't true for every religious forum user. I used Religion, politics and science/philosophy (in that order of importance). I also noticed the religious forum users frequent those threads as well.  I tried using the other threads but mostly all i saw was AMA's and who do you think the hottest "guy/girl" member is. The other threads were boring and quite frankly childish. I come on here or ddo to discuss deep subjects on my mind... i have no interest in having a hangout with people over the internet mentality. I have real life for that, what real life lacks sometimes is deep conversations with people knowledgeable about deep subjects... so i fill that void online.  I would say the other threads were irrelevant if you want to play the "i am so popular card." Plus, i am familiar with every user. Just bc i didn't post on other threads doesn't mean i didn't visit them... they lacked substance to respond to anything... that's why we didn't use it. I would bet a lot of the "religious" forum users did just that. 
#25
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@ethang5
Well, DDO slowly looks like it's coming back. I don't think i will be using this site when it does come back. I already stopped using debate island bc of this site... but, DDO is my main. I've been a loyal little soldier lol. 
#26
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@XLAV
Some members prefer to lurk and not post, you know. 

Lol i missed your post before i posted but exactly. I guess i just forgot to post on other threads to win a "most popular member" trophy. 
Topic's author
#27
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Outplayz
No problem Outplayz. You are the kind of member any site would be lucky to have. You will be welcome here anytime.
#28
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Outplayz
Well, DDO slowly looks like it's coming back. I don't think i will be using this site when it does come back. I already stopped using debate island bc of this site... but, DDO is my main. I've been a loyal little soldier lol. 

Why post at DDO 2.0 when you can have the original. If everyone wants to bring their bs here why bother. I am with you on just going back. See you around. 
#29
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@ethang5
Thanks man. I also enjoy your company so you better get back to DDO when it's functional. I'm just too lazy to use two sites, lol. I'll give it a try, but to your point... comments do move really slow here.   
#30
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
That's how i feel too. This isn't really different than DDO other than being slower in response time. You still get the same old stuff. Plus, DDO is the top debate site. When people search for debate sites, that is the first they'll see which means more users. Since i spend a lot of my time readying other comments, i prefer a faster paced site with various different users. Plus, i like that i am a little more free to say offensive stuff on DDO. I personally liked that.