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@Alec
Where did God come from?
Posts
Total:
134
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@Stronn
Mopac--There would always have to be some form of existence.
Stronn---Why? What is the justification for the statement in bold? Are you just giving an argument from incredulity, or is there some logical reason?
1) 1s law of thermodynamics. Physical/energy cannot be created nor destroyed ergo eternally exists,
....this can somewhat transpose as occupied space cannot be created nor destroyed...........
Sorry Stronn but you have no rational, logical common sense counter argument to this seeming eternally truth and you never will.
Please try if you have courage to be naive, if not look foolish.
2} macro-infinite non-occupied space eternally exists and embracs/surrounds our finite, occupied space Universe,
3} metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts exist and you will find reference to them in most all dictionaries and you access them all of the time and proof you access to their existence is your finger type those concepts here at DArt.
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@Alec
Or is pasta shaped like DNA? :O
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@dustryder
oh shit, things got real
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@Stronn
You are telling me that you don't know what "To know everything" means?
If you are trying to understand something, I will help you if you cooperate. If you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, I am not interested.
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@Mopac
I know what the words mean. I just think it is not possible to fully grasp the concept of "knowing everything" without actually knowing everything. For instance, it may entail a mind-state of which we cannot conceive.
Us saying "to know everything" is like a computer program saying "I love you." The computer can give you the dictionary definition of the words, but does it really understand what it is saying?
Anyway, all that is tangential to the point you've dropped, which was how we can comprehend anything about the nature of something that is incomprehensible.
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@Stronn
The essence of The Ultimate Reality is what is incomprehensible. However, it can be known through the things that are. The fact that you can perceive anything to exist is in itself evidence, even proof if you accept it, of The Ultimate Reality.
You can be sure that it exists. If you deny The Ultimate Reality, you are denying Truth itself. If you deny Truth itself, you deny that there is reality. If you deny that there reality, you deny existence. If you deny that there is existence, you are a nihilist in the truest and most extreme sense of the word.
As there is clearly some form of existence, nihilism is, as it implies, a rejection of reality. Rejection of reality is otherwise called embracing delusion.
The Ultimate Reality is reality as it Truly Is. At best, you can have an image of this in your head, but what it truly is? In essence, in actuality as incomprehensible as knowing everything. What must it absolutely be? Always the case. There can never be a time when it is not what it is.
These are things that can be known about it. They are discerned with a clean intellect.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
So what is atheism towards this God?
Denial of reality. The embrace of delusion. It is foolishness.
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality is God.So what is atheism towards this God?Denial of reality. The embrace of delusion. It is foolishness.
I think no atheists deny 'this god'. The god denied by atheists is any sort of intelligent or conscious entity that hears prayers and judges the souls of the dead, sending some to heaven and the others to hell.
You conflate reality with God (capital-G) because you can 'prove' that reality exist (as if anybody denied it!). But reality isn't disputed by atheists. What atheists dispute is - or instance - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.".
Atheists don't deny the existence of reality. We deny the existence of an entity 'that so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.'
So your argument is irrelevant, which is why we find your incessant repetition of it so annoying. We aren't arguing about the underpinning of reality - we are arguing about 'gods', particularly the Arahamic, capital-G God.
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@Mopac
I don't reject Ultimate Reality or Truth. What I reject are claims that Ultimate Reality cares what we do, wants our worship, metes out reward and punishment, answers prayers, can be described as a trinity, helped write one of our books, or can have its nature discovered by fasting and purifying one's heart.
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@Stronn
You said what I said - only shorter and better!
I don't think it will have the slightest effect.
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality is God.
Is a delusion.
You claim that an obscure tribe in the ancient middle east (Canaanites) invented the ultimate reality as a member of the pantheon of gods they invented to worship. That is an absurd claim.,
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@disgusted
Yeah, some random hobos, right? Its not like John 1 can be translated into numbers and it's elo's number orIs a delusion.You claim that an obscure tribe in the ancient middle east (Canaanites) invented the ultimate reality as a member of the pantheon of gods they invented to worship. That is an absurd claim.,
The number of words,letters,consonants,vowels,words that begin with a vowel and a consonant,the number of words that occur more than once, occur more in one form, in one form, number of nouns, the number of non-nouns, names,other nouns, male names and finally generations are ALL Divisible by 7 In Matthew 1:1-11
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@Dr.Franklin
That is close to the most nonsensical word salad ever produced.
Funny as fuck.
Explain the existence of your pretend god before it was invented along with all the other gods in the Canaanites pantheon, in fact find a mention of your pretend god before that.
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@disgusted
I did, how can that be a coincidence
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@Dr.Franklin
English little one. Try again
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@disgusted
pollywanna
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@Dr.Franklin
bwuahahahahaha
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@disgusted
quack
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@Dr.Franklin
The same place as every God/god, human fearful, ignorant imagination.Where did God come from?
/thread
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@keithprosser
@Stronn
You both recognize The One True God.
Eternal life is then in knowing Jesus Christ.
If you don't want to believe in Jesus, I can't help you on that.
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@Mopac
Our complaint is that you seem to think that your argument to 'prove' that something (an 'ultimate reality') underpins ordinary reality also proves all the other things about the abrahamic god.
You incorrectly assert that atheists deny reality when the real problem is that equating the UR with God (in the full sense of the capital-G word) is a leap of faith, not logic.
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@keithprosser
I put forth that Atheism is sort of like if you considered your mother not as a wholistic being independent from yourself, but as the sum of observable qualities that you attribute to her, extending towards God. Atheism in the traditional sense would be analogous to a worldview in which your mom doesn't exist in her own right. If you would describe all the characteristics and conflate the qualities you attribute according to your limited observation with what your mom truly is, that appears from an outside observer what you must be suggesting towards God. That you don't have the perspective for a complete or satisfactory understanding isn't a reasonable explanation for lack of a better wording, your assumptions.
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@keithprosser
You don't really understand my faith, so I don't put much weight into your observation.
It's really simple. If you don't believe in God you have adopted an idiotic position that makes you deserving of mockery. You should be tarred, feathered, and kicked out of the university for being such a fool.
Can't make it any easier for you. The Ultimate Reality. That is what is meant by God. Accepting this does not imply adoption of religious faith. In fact, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.".
Now if we say even demons believe there is one God, and they are wicked, can you not also believe in One God and be wicked? Surely, and indeed you are because rather than admit God exists, you strive about the meanings of words to the subduing of those who hear.
Surely God exists, and this is something the faithful and the faithless, the believer and the skeptic, all should have common ground on. If we can't have this common ground, there is no common ground. One who denies God can not be trusted with anything, because as long as they say they are denying God, they are admitting that they do not believe in The Truth. Language can not be compromised to satisfy their aversions. Lest we start calling that which is mentally ill that which is healthy, that which is defiled pure, that which is poison life giving, that which is false to be true.
This is not something that can be compromised on ever, and surely the godless are the ones in error.
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality. That is what is meant by God.
Talking rational, logical common sense to you{ Mopac } and DrF is like talking to rock. Whatever we say will just bounce off. You and the DrF are impervious to rational, logical common sense.
Reality stems from real and real stems from real estate { occupied space } and real estate stems from royal { king } estate i.e. only the king can grant a peasant any royal estate estate of the king.
.."The alternative theory that the root is rex, i.e. king (from which through various intermediary languages we get royal, regnal, realm, regalia, and so on) does get a lengthy writeup in Wikipedia, however."...LINK
I have to give credit where credit is due. DrF get the God is eternal correct but only because God is synonym for Universe.
1st law of thermodynamics makes it clear that physical/energy cannot be created nor destroyed ergo eternally existent.
I take one step higher on the cosmic scale to include our finite set of occupied space Universe/God cannot be created nor destroyed.
None have ever offerred any rational, logical common sense to add to, or invalidate these type comments, as stated by me, and none ever will. The more foolish have tried and I have to give them kudo's via an 'E' for their 'Effort'.
The more rational, logical common sense types around here no better than to even try to refute my comments as stated, in these above regards.
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@Mopac
It may well be that not identifying the UR with the God of Abraham damns my soul to eternal hell, but that doesn't alter the fact that you haven't proven that the UR is that god. Is it really foolish to not believe what is not proven?
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@keithprosser
It may well be that not identifying the UR with the God of Abraham damns my soul to eternal hell, but that doesn't alter the fact that you haven't proven that the UR is that god. Is it really foolish to not believe what is not proven?
In accordance with my previous post, you are conflating in a rather clumsy fashion the idea that Abraham is a fool, with what is actually being said to you. Do you disagree?
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@Snoopy
That is just a silly post. My mother is not a construct of the imagination of ignorant, primitive savages whereas that is precisely what all gods are.
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@Snoopy
Abraham is a fictional character not a fool.
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@disgusted
You have a habit of expressing yourself in selfish terms of what something means to you and you alone, just an observation.
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@keithprosser
The Ultimate Reality is God.
I challenge you to think of something greater.
You can't.
There is no proof I can present you. Something is not proof until you accept it.