I read the Wikipedia page and both sides seem to be pretty hard to defend. Israel has killed more people though, I think I want a 2 state solution.
Why do you support Israel?
Posts
Total:
75
probably never will have a 2 state peace because Palestine will NEVER abandon the demand of right to return (which is essentially the elimination of the state of Israel.)
-->
@Greyparrot
A two state solution shouldn't have ever happened in the first place. In 1947 at the time of the partition, the Israeli Jews were a small minority in the land. It was overwhelmingly Arab. The Arab League wanted to establish a state that would guarantee the rights of Jews in Palestine to citizenship, religious freedom, and local autonomy in areas where they are dominant. However, Zionism has always been about establishing a state in an already inhabited country - inherently leading to the disenfranchisement of the native Palestinian citizens once they got western support. Israel is clearly in the wrong here, if two state peace is not possible then Israel needs to go.
Either way, I'd beg to differ. Two-state peace certainly is possible. However, the only way it will be possible is if concessions are made towards the Israeli side which they do not want to do. Many Jews will have to leave settled land back to the Israeli part of the partition.
-->
@Nemiroff
Current activities in the territories, sterilizing black people, demolishing Palestinian buildings in East Jerusalem, acting as a big homie to Trump, spreading online propaganda, suffocating Gaza... New shit comes out all the time. I'm an Israeli, but it's really hard to be patriotic about a regime like this.
As for the conflict, I don't stand with the Palestinian governance (state-sponsored terrorism and all) but I certainly stand with the Palestinian people that get murdered all the time. And really the conflict is complicated and both sides have done things that you'd have to take leaps and bounds to defend.
-->
@Username
acting as a big homie to Trump
They like Trump because he shills for them over every possible issue. What do they do for Americans/Trump in return (actually curious)?
-->
@bmdrocks21
I mean it's no secret Trump is a jew lover, look at his family.
-->
@triangle.128k
Many Jews will have to leave settled land back to the Israeli part of the partition.
Yep. Israel probably won't suicide its own existing state. Especially if Palestine and Hamas bring nothing to the table but loud words.
We can all thank the Balfour Declaration, the second-worst Middle Eastern policy enacted by Western powers ever, for this mess.
I would say that there should be a two-state solution, but that seems less and less likely with every passing day.
Illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza strip and the violence from both sides certainly aren't helping.
At least I'm glad I haven't encountered any evangelical zealots in this thread yet, lol.
-->
@PressF4Respect
We just need to not support either and let the strongest survive
-->
@bmdrocks21
We just need to not support either and let the strongest survive
Ehhhhh, that's how we ended up with the situation in the Balkans in the 90s.
-->
@PressF4Respect
Well supporting Israel pisses off most of the Middle East and is expensive.
Supporting Palestine likely won’t gain us any allies. The only cost-effective thing is to cut ties, really.
Getting involved in religious wars is an endless and expensive (both in bodies and dollars) battle that the US really shouldn’t be involved in.
-->
@bmdrocks21
ehehehehehehe...
The US is already knee-deep in shit with regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If the US army pulls out, they're probably going to get blamed for doing the same thing as they did in Iraq and Afghanistan (the situation in these countries right now is... poor to say the least). Remember when Trump pulled out troops from the Kurdish-held lands in Syria, essentially abandoning the SDF and leaving it to fend for itself against Erdogan? Yeah. I don't think the US suddenly pulling out of this conflict and declaring neutrality would make it look good in the eyes of the international community, especially with that precedent set. The only real solution would be for the US to take an active part in trying to make amends, and chiding both sides for their wrongdoings.
But who am I kidding? As long as the evangelical voting block remains powerful, the conservative GOP is never going to relinquish ties with Netanyahu.
-->
@Greyparrot
Yep. Israel probably won't suicide its own existing state. Especially if Palestine and Hamas bring nothing to the table but loud words.
What fucking else are they going to bring when the Palestinians have had their land seized, their homes bulldozed, their people put under extreme persecution facing apartheid-like treatment, etc.? The Israelis are living in stolen land, they need to abandon the West Bank and Gaza Strip along with surrounding areas.
-->
@triangle.128k
That's what happens when you lose a war. Somebody has to lose a war for it to end.
I mean sure, it's sad that people lose wars, but people have been losing wars since the dawn of man and will continue to lose wars long after you and I are gone.
-->
@triangle.128k
Money and corruption, and a misguided sense of loyalty perhaps..
Oh!...And regional politics of course.....If the U.S. doesn't support Israel, then Russia or China will be more than happy to step into the U.S's shoes.
-->
@triangle.128k
@Dr.Franklin
And Palestinians and Israelis are essentially the same people, but just in a different religious club.
Similarly Judaism, Christianity and Islam are also essentially the same, just the different clubs.
Exactly the same thing as the Patriots, the Dolphins and the Jets....But football rather than religion.
Though I'm sure that to some people football is a religion.
-->
@Greyparrot
@zedvictor4
That's what happens when you lose a war. Somebody has to lose a war for it to end.I mean sure, it's sad that people lose wars, but people have been losing wars since the dawn of man and will continue to lose wars long after you and I are gone.
Except that there clearly is a right side to the war and a wrong side to the war. Anyhows, the point is that the morally wrong side is being supported by the United States - something that needs to end. Support of Israel is not only immoral but does not benefit the United States what so ever, as it's only created more negative relations with other Arab countries. Not to mention that they manipulate American politics and send their lobbyists to Congress.
Oh!...And regional politics of course.....If the U.S. doesn't support Israel, then Russia or China will be more than happy to step into the U.S's shoes.
Incorrect. Russia generally leans towards Palestine and wouldn't sacrifice its relations with other middle eastern nations such as Syria to support Israel. Plus, Russia generally wouldn't support a state that's hostile to Christian Palestinians since Russia has had a long role with supporting Christians in the middle east - dating back to the Tsarist era. China has friendly relations with countries such as Iran and wouldn't support Israel to sacrifice its relations with Iran or other Arab countries. There's absolutely no way that any power will step in the US's shoes. It's completely feasible for the US to withdraw support of Israel.
And Palestinians and Israelis are essentially the same people, but just in a different religious club.Similarly Judaism, Christianity and Islam are also essentially the same, just the different clubs.
Nobody asked for your fedora tipping.
-->
@triangle.128k
And yeah it's sad the uyghars are doomed to lose the war with China, along with Tibet, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. It's sad, and maybe morally wrong from an arbitrary perspective. But it's inevitable because there has to be a loser for conflict to end.
-->
@Greyparrot
And yeah it's sad the uyghars are doomed to lose the war with China, along with Tibet, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. It's sad, and maybe morally wrong from an arbitrary perspective. But it's inevitable because there has to be a loser for conflict to end.
But the point I'm making here is that Palestine would not be the loser if it weren't for the US backing Israel. The US needs to stop backing Israel, period.
-->
@bmdrocks21
They like Trump because he shills for them over every possible issue. What do they do for Americans/Trump in return (actually curious)?
Seems like they share intel, tech, counter-terrorism stuff.
More importantly, Israel acts as a strategic ally for the U.S. in their big Middle Eastern proxy war, which I'm not really a big fan of either.
-->
@triangle.128k
But the point I'm making here is that Palestine would not be the loser.
Now that is a huge stretch considering all the historical wars Palestine lost before the USA cared.
-->
@Username
Seems like they share intel, tech, counter-terrorism stuff.More importantly, Israel acts as a strategic ally for the U.S. in their big Middle Eastern proxy war, which I'm not really a big fan of either.
Ok, they help us kill their enemies for them. Fair enough.
-->
@PressF4Respect
ehehehehehehe...The US is already knee-deep in shit with regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If the US army pulls out, they're probably going to get blamed for doing the same thing as they did in Iraq and Afghanistan (the situation in these countries right now is... poor to say the least). Remember when Trump pulled out troops from the Kurdish-held lands in Syria, essentially abandoning the SDF and leaving it to fend for itself against Erdogan? Yeah. I don't think the US suddenly pulling out of this conflict and declaring neutrality would make it look good in the eyes of the international community, especially with that precedent set. The only real solution would be for the US to take an active part in trying to make amends, and chiding both sides for their wrongdoings.But who am I kidding? As long as the evangelical voting block remains powerful, the conservative GOP is never going to relinquish ties with Netanyahu.
I did feel bad about abandoning the Kurds, because they were an ally in fighting ISIS. They did a lot of the work for us. Now, from what I understand, we armed and paid them generously for that service, but still not too happy with it.
As for these other countries.... not sure we really have allies that are worth anything there. The international community complains no matter what: either wee intervene and send them a bunch of "refugees" or we pull out and they sneer because we aren't fighting terrorists who are a much bigger threat to them than us.
And I have no clue why Evangelicals love them so much. Jewish people in the US have a lower approval rating of Evangelical Christians(34) than they do of Muslims(35). While White Evangelicals have an approval rating of 69 for Jews. https://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/
-->
@zedvictor4
no there not the same
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
-->
@ILikePie5
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
This is the type of philosophy that leads to the US giving Saudi Arabia billions of dollars worth of weaponry.
-->
@ILikePie5
The enemy of your enemy is the friend of your enemy, if we play around with that saying's logic.
-->
@bmdrocks21
I did feel bad about abandoning the Kurds, because they were an ally in fighting ISIS. They did a lot of the work for us. Now, from what I understand, we armed and paid them generously for that service, but still not too happy with it.
I don't think the US gave nearly enough to the Kurds for them to have a fighting chance at defending against Turkey.
As for these other countries.... not sure we really have allies that are worth anything there.
I mean, it's either allies or ISIS and Al-Qaeda-like terrorist groups.
The international community complains no matter what: either wee intervene and send them a bunch of "refugees" or we pull out and they sneer because we aren't fighting terrorists who are a much bigger threat to them than us.
Given the current situation in certain countries in the Middle East, I think the "refugees" would be going over there anyway.
And I have no clue why Evangelicals love them so much. Jewish people in the US have a lower approval rating of Evangelical Christians(34) than they do of Muslims(35). While White Evangelicals have an approval rating of 69 for Jews. https://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/
Probably because of some bible verse like Deuteronomy 30:1-5
-->
@Greyparrot
Now that is a huge stretch considering all the historical wars Palestine lost before the USA cared.
Um dude, literally all of those historical wars involved non-industrialized countries fighting off a country being given/sold armnaments by Britain (and the US) along with other western states.
If the US currently cut off its support for Israel, it would be wiped off the face of the Earth with the collective might of the Arab states. Different conditions, different times.
-->
@bmdrocks21
And I have no clue why Evangelicals love them so much. Jewish people in the US have a lower approval rating of Evangelical Christians(34) than they do of Muslims(35). While White Evangelicals have an approval rating of 69 for Jews. https://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/
To be fair this isn't really relevant to Evangelical support for Israel. I think they mostly support Israel b/c they're afraid of Muslims lmao.