Professor Michael Thompson observed, girl behavior is the standard in school, while boys are treated like being a defected girl. Its showing. Boys are far less likely to go to college, get much fewer honors and get pretty crappy grades. For example, boys score lower on reading tests not because their dumb but because they're just boys. Boys prefer action and comic books. However the books today in school clearly do not interest boys. Boys who are forced to read stories like Little House On a Prairie aren't happy. A study conducted by Ralph Fletcher concluded that classrooms like to use The Confessional Poet. Only stories that are full of emotion and have deep poetry are praised but boys tend to write about action, a monster devouring a city and competitions. A third grader made a drawing of a pirate battle and the boy got in trouble, however the dad was astonished that the teacher got him in trouble.
Boys are 5x more likely to get expelled from PRESCHOOL. In grades K-12 boys account for 70% of suspensions. Hardly a week goes by and you hear a story about how boys being boys are suspended. Jonathan Welsh, age 7 was suspended because he made a pretend gun out of a pop-tart. At recess boys should be able to bring their competitive spirit, but recess has been lost by 50% and games like red rover, tag and dodgeball are not allowed.
Discrimination in school
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@Dr.Franklin
Poor boys. They need to protest for their rights. Call their movement man-minist. Who would have thought right wing propaganda was so good that they can make you believe contradictory things.
Are you against freedom of choice of a man to leave the education system? Are you for an authoritarian policy to force men into education? Choose one instead of being contradictory.
On one hand you believe in freedom but then on another you want to force education to make sure men stay in school.
If that is not your position. Stop fence sitting and tell me what you actually want or you know be like other right wingers. When push comes to shove they don't actually have ideas they want implemented instead virtue signal about what they want but don't actually do it. Unless of course the right winger propaganda has worked their charm so much that bad ideas are now considered good. Basically an internet tough guy who says he is going to do something but doesn't actually do it but when the competition becomes weaker then he decides to act courageous not when it is courageous to maintain what you stand for.
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@Dr.Franklin
Homeschool your children. The U.S. education system, particularly the public school system, is nothing more than a glorified syndicate of reeducation camps. Children don't learn there; they're indoctrinated with Marxist dogma.
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@TheRealNihilist
All i see is squeaking and calling me propoganda
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@Athias
Yeah! Screw poor people, they dont deserve any good education system, YEAH INSTEAD OF FIXING THE PROBLEM LETS SEND OUR KIDS TO HOMESCHOOL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Athias
An anarchist who thinks education has some sort of marxist agenda? Never thought I would see the day.
Your arguments are bad. Mainly based on what you are defending. When defending private healthcare you come with such lackluster arguments that are easily refuted. Thoht did that in DDO. RationalMadman did that here on DA. When will you learn? Oh wait your indoctrinated into the anarchist dogma. I would be more willing to challenge your ideas but most of the population consider anarchism a trash idea so I am not really gaining a lot. I'll stick to dunking on the conservatives before I even think about challenging dare I say it worse ideas than conservatives. At least conservatives want a government you don't and think private companies are in some way going to represent the people around them instead of their own interests.
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@Dr.Franklin
Not actually against my ideas instead point out a few key words. Do you have ADHD or something? Was my informative comment too much for a person like you? I think it is judging from my previous comments to you and how little you do to respond. Even your opening comments are copy and pasted. Guess you must have a disorder which makes you incapable of sitting through things that you don't find interesting. Oh well. Not my problem.All i see is squeaking and calling me propoganda
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@TheRealNihilist
Again no rebuttals just more classic omar libtard squeaking !!!!
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@Dr.Franklin
Read my first response. I did critique what you said but guess you can't see.
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@TheRealNihilist
Brain cell lost from your response
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@Dr.Franklin
It does fix the problem. When one sends one's children to public school, one is sending them to be inculcated with state-sponsored propaganda and curricula, which doesn't exclude marginalizing male students by either punishing their natural behavior, or medicating them out of it. Being poor is no excuse. You are sending your children to the wolves when you send them to public school. When one homeschools one's children, one has full capacity in overseeing their education. And if one can't afford to homeschool one's children, then they've been doomed to start. Perhaps, that can serve as a cautionary tale in whether one should have children before one has all their eggs in the basket.
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@Dr.Franklin
Less coed, more male teachers for male students, less stringent school polices, more leeway for teachers to personally discipline misbehaving students. Boom. Problem solved.
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@Swagnarok
Yeah, AND MORE RECESS. PLEASE
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@Athias
When one sends one's children to public school, one is sending them to be inculcated with state-sponsored propaganda and curricula, which doesn't exclude marginalizing male students by either punishing their natural behavior, or medicating them out of it.
Any evidence? There are some public schools that are actually good.
Being poor is no excuse.
Yes it is, you dont have money for good education
You are sending your children to the wolves when you send them to public school.
Evidence? and are you going to try and solve the problem
When one homeschools one's children, one has full capacity in overseeing their education. And if one can't afford to homeschool one's children, then they've been doomed to start. Perhaps, that can serve as a cautionary tale in whether one should have children before one has all their eggs in the basket.
Yeah, I get, homeschool is amazing with no flaws.
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@Dr.Franklin
Any evidence? There are some public schools that are actually good.
"Good" toward what? Getting one's adolescent into another school to be inculcated with more state-sponsored ideologies, where they're indexed and categorized by their taxable earning potential?
Yes it is, you dont have money for good education
You continue to mention "good education" without informing your qualification of good. Good toward what?
Evidence? and are you going to try and solve the problem
What do you want evidence for? That one is actually sending their children to the wolves; that's just a metaphor. If you want statistics on performance differentials among home-schooled children and public schooled children, there are plenty of those online. This however is not a quantitative argument; hence, I'm not submitting said statistics. As for solving the problem, I've already told you: homeschool your children.
Yeah, I get, homeschool is amazing with no flaws.
Non sequitur. I'm not interested in that which you wish to emote, only that which you wish to argue.
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@TheRealNihilist
Schools need to be open for everyone without any bias and such things around that. Education needs to be fair, and having men be victims of crimes and suspensions and limiting their education is pure bias and just as evil as sexism
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@Athias
Not Marxist at all, but forcing their shit liberal agenda down the throats of conservatives
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@Vader
Any evidence institutions are limiting men's education?Schools need to be open for everyone without any bias and such things around that. Education needs to be fair, and having men be victims of crimes and suspensions and limiting their education is pure bias and just as evil as sexism
Any evidence that education was ever fair?
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@TheRealNihilist
The evidence pointed out there
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@Vader
You are not a professional on this topic nor have you provided evidence. You have only pointed out claims and I said support them and you are saying they are supported even though all you gave me were your claims.The evidence pointed out there
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@TheRealNihilist
The evidence in Dr Franklins point proves this and debunks and liberal theory
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@Vader
I have yet to see a source since he is not a professional at the topic at hand. So you are lying.The evidence in Dr Franklins point proves this and debunks and liberal theory
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@Athias
Or you can have an involved family. You can have other young adults give you advise. You can send your kid to a therapist that has a young spirit and understands adolescence. With all this knowledge, you teach your kid what to look out for and what to consider with an open mind. I went to public school prepared. It was a testing ground for me. I learned how to be popular, how to get with the skin heads, how to hang out with the emo crowd (even though i almost fought them with the skinheads), how to hang out with the smart kids, the goth kids, the skater kids, surfers, etc... i was all over the place understanding a wide variety of human beings. This has translated into my life like Loki's tongue. If i was home schooled... i would have hated my parents for doing that to me. I don't understand that level of control one would want over their kid(s)... hiding them away from life. Bc life will hit them in the face real hard. You can teach them all you want... but without experiencing it, they will be lost. It's the best time to see individuality. Bc later in life, people start hiding that part of themselves.
Without preparation however, idk, i may concede home schooling is better. But, i wonder by how much.
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@Outplayz
@Vader
@SupaDudz:
The entirety of liberal ideology is premised on Marxist Conflict Theory.
@Outplayz:
Or you can have an involved family.
Typically one of the parents (usually the mother) homeschools the child. "Involved" family comes with the territory.
You can have other young adults give you advise. You can send your kid to a therapist that has a young spirit and understands adolescence. With all this knowledge, you teach your kid what to look out for and what to consider with an open mind. I went to public school prepared. It was a testing ground for me. I learned how to be popular, how to get with the skin heads, how to hang out with the emo crowd (even though i almost fought them with the skinheads), how to hang out with the smart kids, the goth kids, the skater kids, surfers, etc... i was all over the place understanding a wide variety of human beings. This has translated into my life like Loki's tongue.
And to what effect and extent has this experience served your education?
If i was home schooled... i would have hated my parents for doing that to me. I don't understand that level of control one would want over their kid(s)... hiding them away from life.
One either assumes "control" over one's children, or cede it to an outside party; I personally prefer the former. And "hiding them away from life?" Are you under the assumption that home-schooled children lack social lives? Not exposing them to a public school environment is not the same as not exposing them to an environment of their peers at all.
Bc life will hit them in the face real hard.
Life will hit them regardless...
You can teach them all you want... but without experiencing it, they will be lost.
Life is like public school?
It's the best time to see individuality. Bc later in life, people start hiding that part of themselves.
To the contrary: public school is perhaps the worst place to see individuality as children tend to seek the formation of bonds and camaraderie through conformity. You, yourself, even insinuated this effect when highlighting your experiences with the "skinheads," the "goths," the "emos," the "smart kids," etc. Children also tend to segregate themselves anyway, so the entirety of their "life's experience" in public school would really depend on the group with which they've affiliated. I'd rather expose my children to as many positive influences as I can than to subject them to a dysfunctional public school environment where there'd be indoctrinated with state sponsored ideologies.
Without preparation however, idk, i may concede home schooling is better. But, i wonder by how much.
It's not a quantitative argument. All one needs to know is that homeschooling is better.
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@Athias
And to what effect and extent has this experience served your education?
I have two degrees and am doing pretty well. I think that's all that matters. Of course, depending on what a person is going for however. In my case, i didn't need to be the top of my class... i needed to socialize and get connections. It all depends on the goal which i think can be achieved through public school.
Life is like public school?
Life is like the chaos found in public school, but hidden. People hide who they are as they grow... those impulses are not controlled in HS years so you get to see the wide range of differences. I don't think people that are home-schooled lack a social life... i think they would lack seeing these differences.
public school is perhaps the worst place to see individuality
I don't think you are understanding my angle. Individuality as in a goth kid dressing up goth. Trust me, as a goth, skater, surfer kid myself... that never goes away. I'm still that person but i hide it bc i'm an "adult" now. Kids in these years don't hide it and let themselves be known. Public school is a great time to see this individuality. Also, it's a great time to learn how to navigate it.
The way you are talking about home-schooling is very controlling. You control the education, you have slight control on who your kid would be around... all of this seems very pampered. You're kid will never see a skinhead and get the opportunity to observe or even talk to them to see where they are coming from. I was never a skinhead, dressed like people they disliked, and am a different ethnicity. But, still i found a way to become friends with them and see that they are people too. Even uncomfortable at the beginning bc i thought they'd hate me. It's little things like this you are hiding them away from. If i never had that situation happen... i may still be afraid of them, or think they're just trash... or whatever preconceived notion that comes with that territory. Now... the important part is i asked people i trust what does "skinhead" mean. I knew what they stood for and who they were before trying to make friends. I knew i disagreed with them. That is the preparation i'm talking about that you need so you don't get brainwashed or manipulated... that's important too.
All one needs to know is that homeschooling is better.
This is a very broad statement and not nuanced at all. There are situations in which i may agree with you... like i first said, it all comes down to the kids goals. If they want to be musicians, i'd say go to public school. If they want to be effective salesman / business, i'd say go to public school. If the kid wants to be a doctor from a prestige school, i'd say get home schooled. It all depends on the future goals. Some careers don't need what i'm talking about and need what you're talking about... vice versa. I'm not saying home schooling is bad, i actually think it may get you better grades. But even there i'm not sure... i think if one an still crush it in public school with all the distractions, that's a talent within itself.
So, i disagree with a general statement that home-schooling is "better." That's just not the case in every situation.
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@Outplayz
I have two degrees and am doing pretty well. I think that's all that matters. Of course, depending on what a person is going for however. In my case, i didn't need to be the top of my class... i needed to socialize and get connections. It all depends on the goal which i think can be achieved through public school.
May you perhaps be a bit more detailed? I'd like see you inform how the experience you described led to acquiring two degrees. (You don't have to mention which degrees; I'd only like to get a better picture on how your public school experience produced this effect.)
Life is like the chaos found in public school, but hidden. People hide who they are as they grow... those impulses are not controlled in HS years so you get to see the wide range of differences. I don't think people that are home-schooled lack a social life... i think they would lack seeing these differences.
And how is experiencing these differences significant toward: (1) education, and (2) their life? And would it be fair to state that your outlook on life is one which concludes chaos because you assimilated to chaos when growing up? And wouldn't those who assimilated to a consistent order and structure seek such an environment later in life?
I don't think you are understanding my angle. Individuality as in a goth kid dressing up goth. Trust me, as a goth, skater, surfer kid myself... that never goes away. I'm still that person but i hide it bc i'm an "adult" now. Kids in these years don't hide it and let themselves be known. Public school is a great time to see this individuality.
That's not individuality; that's affiliating with a category. And I disagree that being an adult means being less individual. It all depends on how important one's individuality is to the individual. For example, I'm Athias in all contexts. My demeanor remains for the most part unchanged whether that be online, associating with my friends, and family, or associating with others in my employment. (I am more jovial around my friends and family.)
The way you are talking about home-schooling is very controlling.
No, it actually isn't. All I said about homeschooling thus far is that it's better because it allows the parent to oversee in full capacity the child's education. I quoted "control" to mirror your lexicon. It's no more controlling than ceding the education of one's child to the state.
You're kid will never see a skinhead and get the opportunity to observe or even talk to them to see where they are coming from. I was never a skinhead, dressed like people they disliked, and am a different ethnicity.
What benefit would it serve my child to observe and interact with a skinhead?
But, still i found a way to become friends with them and see that they are people too. Even uncomfortable at the beginning bc i thought they'd hate me. It's little things like this you are hiding them away from.
What benefit does this serve? Can they not experience meeting a diverse sample of people outside of public school?
Now... the important part is i asked people i trust what does "skinhead" mean. I knew what they stood for and who they were before trying to make friends. I knew i disagreed with them. That is the preparation i'm talking about that you need so you don't get brainwashed or manipulated... that's important too.
I still don't understand. Are you assuming one's children would prejudiced without the experience of public school? If one oversees their children's education, where would they learn this prejudice?
This is a very broad statement and not nuanced at all. There are situations in which i may agree with you... like i first said, it all comes down to the kids goals. If they want to be musicians, i'd say go to public school. If they want to be effective salesman / business, i'd say go to public school. If the kid wants to be a doctor from a prestige school, i'd say get home schooled. It all depends on the future goals.
I'm curious: how does public school benefit a music career better than homeschool? Of course, feel free to be opinionated.
I'm not saying home schooling is bad, i actually think it may get you better grades. But even there i'm not sure... i think if one an still crush it in public school with all the distractions, that's a talent within itself.
It's not impossible to, as you say, "crush it" in public school. However, that's more about the child than the environment.
So, i disagree with a general statement that home-schooling is "better." That's just not the case in every situation.
General statements do not speak to every situation. I cannot presume to know each result of every form of education. Conversely, you too cannot state that public schooling in every instance produces the effect of which you speak. So we are both being general. Would you still consider generality an apt criticism of my arguments?
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@Athias
May you perhaps be a bit more detailed?
I would be cautious in saying that public school is what helped me get my degrees. I think that was more my own will than public school. It's what public school taught me that i applied to my careers that is more important. I don't think i would have been the top sales/business person in my state without my experiences in public school. Without boasting too much... i live in a pretty large state, Cali, and worked in the hardest area to sell in... and i was top ten, top 3 a couple times, in the entire state in a big company. People asked me how i do what i do? It really came down to understanding people. It takes me 5 minutes or less of conversation to know that side people hide. Also, since i observed a lot before making friends... i also learned how different people made non-verbal signs that i can pick up on too. Lastly, learning all these different people are still awesome... i have no judgments before meeting people so everyone is an open book... it's made me truly love humanity. I do not think i would be this way if i didn't experience it... but who knows since that wasn't my path. All i know is if there were sellers in my company that were home schooled, i was destroying them. And this is just one job.
And wouldn't those who assimilated to a consistent order and structure seek such an environment later in life?
No.. i don't think so. I think everyone is an individual. Some are random and chaotic, some are more structured. There are degrees within everyone. I'm very detail oriented. Although i may be random, i still have order in that randomness. It's just who i am. But, i suspect if i never experienced this chaos... i wouldn't know how to order it as well as i do now. It's hard since we are talking about things that weren't my path. Would i be the same? Maybe... but, i think i'm better, just like you get better at everything, with practice.
My demeanor remains for the most part
I'm very much the same. I don't hide part of myself and am an open book. I like people like you bc i feel more at ease right away usually meeting someone like you. But i've met a lot of people... not everyone is like you. As to the affiliating with a category part... who doesn't? But here is the thing i think you may be missing. Seeing these categorize in the open, without them being hidden... helps a lot in understand that certain category. Take ten teens that are being their category... and stand them next to ten adults in suits. If you can vision how different that is in understand the person, you'll get what i mean.
parent to oversee in full capacity the child's education.
This is controlling by its nature. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying i have an issue with "it's better" ... i do not agree in "all situations." I concede that in some it may be, but i think there are cons to homeschooling you may not be considering... or have you. What would you say the cons are to home schooling?
What benefit would it serve my child to observe and interact with a skinhead?
It's a teenager man... they likely have no clue what they are doing, and i found out.. they were just rebels. They're humans. Misguided sometimes. I actually helped one of the girls see the errors she was making, got her off drugs, and became very close friends. That is a talent, a skill, you learn when you don't judge off appearances. I knew they were wrong, but at that age... i was curious to find out what they truly believed bc i was taught to not judge and just listen. Can i ask... were you home schooled?
Can they not experience meeting a diverse sample of people outside of public school?
Yes you can. But these are formative years. Also, the environment is what it is. This environment changes as teens age into adults. Of course, people still show to an extent what i'm talking about in college/university... but it's just a whole different environment. It's harder to do what's easier to do in public schools. What i'm talking about is i got to see this transformation instead of missing it completely.
I still don't understand.
Preparation just means knowledge. I had young adults teach me what to expect, i had adults that i can talk to freely about what's going on. I wasn't going around without knowing. With this knowledge i just knew the bad things to look out for... but i was also taught to explore different people and label things bad once i came to that conclusion after listening to them. That's the gist of it, this was an ongoing part.
I'm curious: how does public school benefit a music career better than homeschool?
Simply bc i had the opportunity to play with a wide variety of people i would have never met if it was up to me to choose who to play with. This is nuanced too... i played in bands, homeschooling may be better for a concert pianist. Think of this as music genres. If you love rock, you'll likely never listen to rap unless someone that does introduces you to it, but more importantly... guide you through understand what they love about it.
that's more about the child than the environment.
This is an important statement that i agree with. That's why i wouldn't say either or is "better" ... each has it's pros and cons. So to your last statement.. i'm trying not to be general, sorry if i was. It really comes down to the person. All i'm saying is there are certain situations that can teach you a little more than you would have learned if you didn't experience it. This why i can't say which is better in general.
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@Dr.Franklin
Yep.
The slow creep of Left Wing Fascism. It's happening here in the U.K. too.
Students are admonished, simply for having an opinion.
We used to refer to it as freedom of speech or freedom of expression, but the tyranny of political correctness is putting pay to all that.
10 days later
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@Dr.Franklin
Professor Michael Thompson also talks extensively about how the social norms that boys are exposed to, the need to be cool, manly, strong, and others; are raising generations of boys that end up being and lonely: which i suspect is possibly part of reason why suicide and drug abuse disproportionately affect males.
In Raising Cain, the professor went into a lot of detail about the importance of the emotions education of boys in school and how it’s lack plays a big part the overall lack of emotional well being in men growing up.
Secondly; having a small child of my own, I am excruciatingly aware of the inherent gender bias in almost every aspect of life from the moment you are born. From language, to clothing to the close they’re given.
If boys are given cars and LEGO and encourage to build things: and girls are given dolls and are told to take care of them: and are discouraged from doing the opposite - is it any surprise that boy end up being better at, say, spatial awareness? It appears at least meta studies seem to back this up.
Even little things; studies have shown parents talk more to girls, and count more with boys - so it’s difficult to really sepearate what boys naturally are from what they have been taught to be.
I think the issue with school is that they are becomming more diruption and risk intolerant. Meaning less cool games, and more reliant on drastic intervention to solve education problems: not solving the root cause of whatever behavioural problem maybe Driving suspension and expulsion. There are also idiot teachers who grotesquely interact.
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@Ramshutu
Professor Michael Thompson also talks extensively about how the social norms that boys are exposed to, the need to be cool, manly, strong, and others; are raising generations of boys that end up being and lonely: which i suspect is possibly part of reason why suicide and drug abuse disproportionately affect males.
I suspect that the exposure to the need of being "cool, manly, and strong" creates a sense of loneliness because this behavior and/or exhibited traits have recently been stigmatized. Boys are no less social beings, so marginalizing them as "toxic" (toxic masculinity) will take its toll.
In Raising Cain, the professor went into a lot of detail about the importance of the emotions education of boys in school and how it’s lack plays a big part the overall lack of emotional well being in men growing up.
That's not a school's responsibility; that's a parent's responsibility. Nowadays, the public school system is nothing more than glorified daycare allowing some parents to often shirk their responsibilities.
Secondly; having a small child of my own, I am excruciatingly aware of the inherent gender bias in almost every aspect of life from the moment you are born. From language, to clothing to the close they’re given.
One's sex primarily indicates one's role in reproduction. And sex as a means to reproduction is therefore very important in social interaction. So it's no surprise that these nuances manifest in the form of bias.
If boys are given cars and LEGO and encourage to build things: and girls are given dolls and are told to take care of them: and are discouraged from doing the opposite - is it any surprise that boy end up being better at, say, spatial awareness? It appears at least meta studies seem to back this up.Even little things; studies have shown parents talk more to girls, and count more with boys - so it’s difficult to really sepearate what boys naturally are from what they have been taught to be.
Is it? If one is going to speak to some nebulous culture which teaches boys and girls to adopt artificially created roles, then one has to ask: who or what created this culture? Was it one person? Was it a group of people? How did it come to be? Could it be that this culture is "natural"? That is these constellations of gender-based behaviors reflect biological imperative (e.g. a woman being more selective in choosing mates because her reproductive prospects are heavily influenced by the amount of eggs she has and her gestational terms.)
I think the issue with school is that they are becomming more diruption and risk intolerant. Meaning less cool games, and more reliant on drastic intervention to solve education problems: not solving the root cause of whatever behavioural problem maybe Driving suspension and expulsion. There are also idiot teachers who grotesquely interact.
I agree in some part. Though, I think one of the primary issues affecting boys in public school is the blatant attempt to "feminize" not only the social environments, but also the academic standards.