Churches / Mosques / Temples Ban Children Under 16

Author: ludofl3x

Posts

Total: 121
#31
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
What percentage of adults who know how to read were taught how to read as children?

What percentage of adults learned how to read when they were adults?


I personally find your questioning to be nefarious, because the motivations for suggesting what is in the OP is only one thing... the eradication of religion.

And sure enough, Communist China has laws that enforce what is in the OP. What are their intentions? To eradicate religion so that they can replace it with their state religion which is secularist in nature.


The Turks would just kidnap our children, make them eunuchs, and have them fight in their armies. I suppose what is being entertaimed here is a nicer way of killing us off institutionally!

There will always be a remnant.




#32
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
Interesting fact, about a third of all Orthodox Priests in the United States are converts. In The Antiochan Church, which is the church I belong to, around 70% of our priests are converts.
#33
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
Parents purposely lie to their kids about Santa to make one day a year "special" for themselves. Even atheist parents. The faithful are not lying. Shove Santa up you ass. 
Parents unintentionally lie to their kids about gods in order to scare them into thinking that someone is watching them all the time and will punish them in horrible ways for disobedience (argumentum in terrorem).  It's also a great way to avoid the generally unpleasant reality of death.  Nobody's going to make it out of here alive.
#34
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ludofl3x
I personally find your questioning to be nefarious, because the motivations for suggesting what is in the OP is only one thing... the eradication of religion.
It appears Mopac thinks your hypothetical would eradicate religion.
#35
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
Interesting fact, about a third of all Orthodox Priests in the United States are converts. In The Antiochan Church, which is the church I belong to, around 70% of our priests are converts.
Converts from atheism?

Or are you also counting converts from some other flavor of Christianity as "converts"?
#36
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@3RU7AL
You have no proof gods are a lie. I have never told me kids that because my gods aren't like that. When you can respond without your bigot bs let me know. 
#37
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@3RU7AL
Until you accept a religion or gods you are an atheist. All theists were once atheist. Your lack of honestly is sick. 
#38
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
I'd wager that most of them are converts from other forms of Christianity. I can't really say.

I converted to Christianity and it wasn't until later I found the true church. Orthodox Christianity is small in the United States, but it is growing. The people who tend to find Orthodoxy are educated protestants, ones that go through seminary and sccidently stumble on the true church. There are several members of my parish who were protestant pastors for over 20 years. Sone of our deacons also used to be protestant pastors. We also have a retired priest who before becoming orthodox was a Roman Catholic priest for over a decade.



See, it nbn is kind of hard to evangelize when there are so many protestants running around making things confusing. I would say the brunt of our evangelism is actually aimed at people who call themselves Christians these days.


Atheism to us is utter foolishness, and it is the justified opinion of many, including myself, that when they seize power they are going to try to kill us off.



#39
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
Until you accept a religion or gods you are an atheist. All theists were once atheist. Your lack of honestly is sick. 
Adult converts who were not inculcated as children.
#40
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
You have no proof gods are a lie. I have never told me kids that because my gods aren't like that. When you can respond without your bigot bs let me know. 
Do you believe that having faith in gods makes you a "better person"?
#41
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
From our worldview, there are no atheists,  only those who are in denial or ignorance of their gods.
#42
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
Atheism to us is utter foolishness,
Please qualify this apparently bald assertion.

...and it is the justified opinion...
Please detail the "justification" for this opinion.

...of many, including myself, that when they seize power they are going to try to kill us off.
I'm pretty sure more Christians have been massacred by other Christians then by any other group.
#43
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@3RU7AL

No but being atheist doesn't make you one either. You people prove that every post. 
#44
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
No but being atheist doesn't make you one either. You people prove that every post.
Of course you have very fine people on both sides.

What do you perceive are the benefits of belief?

What do you perceive are the dangers of strict standards of evidence?
#45
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
The Ultimate Reality exists. To be uncertain about this is foolish.

The hatred that atheists express in so many ways, combined with historical precedent of atheist governments treating religion other than state worship as an infection comparable to lice.

The actions of nominal "Christian" heretics is not represenative of true Orthodox Christianity. In addition, The Church is not intended to be a secular authority, in fact, caeseropapism is a heresy, so theocracy or more accurately clericocracy is fundamentally an anti-Christian idea.

There is no such thing as a crusade or Holy war in Orthodoxy.







#46
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
There are nice and friendly atheists, but atheism is still abominable, wicked, and satanic. 
#47
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality exists. To be uncertain about this is foolish.
We agree on this.  It's called noumenon.

The hatred that atheists express in so many ways, combined with historical precedent of atheist [secular] governments treating religion other than state worship as an infection comparable to lice.
Throughout history, religious zealots have exterminated (like lice) more people of "other" religions than any secular government ever has.

The actions of nominal "Christian" heretics is not represenative of true Orthodox Christianity.
No true Scotsman.  Christians kill Christians.  Here's a good example, 

By the 1560s, the French Protestants - Huguenots - were looking to the New World to establish a Protestant state in which they could practice their religion. They sent an expedition to the St. Johns River area of modern-day Florida and began a colony near what is now the city of St. Augustine. It was not long before news of this French intrusion reached the Spanish court in Madrid. To Phillip II of Spain the French were not only trespassing on land assigned by the Holy Church to the Spanish Crown, but they were also heretics violating the faith he was sworn to uphold. His immediate reaction was to dispatch one of his most brutal commanders, Pedro Menendez, at the head of a fleet of eleven ships and 1000 troops to uproot the French interlopers. [LINK]

Spoiler alert, the Huguenots were summarily massacred.

How Many Have Been Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?

None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic. So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — even in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness. Communists Don't Kill in the Name of Atheism... [LINK]

In addition, The Church is not intended to be a secular authority, in fact, caeseropapism is a heresy, so theocracy or more accurately clericocracy is fundamentally an anti-Christian idea.
Are you suggesting that a government should be purely secular?

What do you believe is the specific difference between a secular government and an atheist government?

There is no such thing as a crusade or Holy war in Orthodoxy.
There is no such thing as a crusade or Holy war in atheism either.

Oh, and I'm an Epistemological Deist by the way.
#48
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
There are nice and friendly atheists, but atheism is still abominable, wicked, and satanic. 
It is logically impossible to be an atheist AND simultaneously believe in (much less worship) satan.
#49
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
I am not going to listen to you if you say "No true scottsman" at me while falsely equating my religion with that of those who don't share my religion.

They are not with the church. They are heretics. You are wrong, and making an identity fallacy.






#50
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
It is logically impossible to be an atheist AND simultaneously believe in (much less worship) satan
Belief has nothing to do with it. Atheists don't think they have gods either, but we know they do. Most atheists are pagans.

#51
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
It is logically impossible to be an atheist AND simultaneously believe in (much less worship) satan
Belief has nothing to do with it. Atheists don't think they have gods either, but we know they do. Most atheists are pagans.
It is logically impossible to be an atheist AND simultaneously call yourself a pagan.
#52
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
As I said, belief is irrelevant. From our perspective, atheists are simply in denial of the gods they worship. The way we understand and have always understood gods, they are pagans. 
#53
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
I am not going to listen to you if you say "No true scottsman" at me while falsely equating my religion with that of those who don't share my religion.

They are not with the church. They are heretics. You are wrong, and making an identity fallacy.
You can't share 90% of Christian beliefs and then act surprised when people lump you in with Christians.
#54
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
As I said, belief is irrelevant. From our perspective, atheists are simply in denial of the gods they worship. The way we understand and have always understood gods, they are pagans. 
Pagans believe in other gods.  Atheists do not.
#55
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@3RU7AL
Not really pagans are non Christians, atheists have no believe in gods. Most atheist witches call themselves pagan. Those who think the gods are non existent and  nothing more than concepts but engage in a ritual practice for cultural reasons call themselves pagan. 
#56
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL

You can't share 90% of Christian beliefs and then act surprised when people lump you in with Christians.

I understand why you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but that is because you only have a superfucial understanding of these matters. In the most conservative sense, it might be a stretch to call anyone outside of the church Christian at all. However, it is not very charitable to go around calling people heretics, and we always hope that the heterodox find their way back to the church. It also worth noting that the heterodox really don't know any better, so there is a certain innocence in that to be respected. 



Pagans believe in other gods.  Atheists do not.

Someone whose entire life revolves around going home to play videogames is clearly bowing down to a god. As an example! The atheist simply doesn't acknowledge the gods they worship because they are educated to be blind to these things.

It also makes it hard to teach religion because people are educated nowadays with a type of newspeech that makes what we are saying unintelligible. The result? Widespread ignorance concerning the faith coupled with an arrogance that resists correction.


And that is precisely why I find the idea set forth in the OP to be offensive!

#57
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
Not really pagans are non Christians, atheists have no believe in gods. Most atheist witches call themselves pagan. Those who think the gods are non existent and  nothing more than concepts but engage in a ritual practice for cultural reasons call themselves pagan. 
PAGAN

Definitions
noun An adherent of a polytheistic religion in antiquity, especially when viewed in contrast to an adherent of a monotheistic religion.
noun A Neopagan.
noun One who has no religion. [LINK]

If you mean "non-christian" it seem like it would be simpler to say "non-christian".

Definition #1 and #3 seem to be mutually exclusive.
#58
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
Merriam webster has a better definition


"one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods"

The sensual pleasures and material goods being their gods.

Really, a pagan worships created things. They are idols that are shown preference over God.

And so, from our vantage point, atheists are either ignorant of or in denial of their gods.






#59
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mopac
And so, from our vantage point, atheists are either ignorant of or in denial of their gods.
As a MONOTHEIST I would imagine you might not believe in OTHER GODS.

How can you insist that Atheists worship material gods if you only believe in ONE GOD?
#60
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
We acknowledge that gods exist as created things. They are not worthy of adoration.

There is one God, The Ultimate Reality. The God of gods. The gods are created beings. When people give adoration to them, they are giving adoration to demons.