The Jews were the biggest meddlers in the US election but we worry about Russia

Author: triangle.128k 6 years ago

Posts

Total: 38

#31

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

08.27.2018 09:35PM

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@EvilNom

Spectre. I think you need to learn how burden of proof works buddy. You were the one who made the claim, so you are the one who needs to cite the sources.

Let's look at the claims you made:

"Jews don't have a superior IQ."

"Recent research in genetics has entirely debunked the myth that Jews are a race (something which was predicated on the Biblical account of the Exodus being true)."

"Judaism is a religion from the dark ages, not a racial group."

"Believing in a religion from the dark ages doesn't make you smart."

To be fair, you did provide evidence to support your second claim, so let's address that. It didn't take me long to find what I suspect to be the problem:

"But races are not biological-meaningful classification entities. And if so, why is racism a bad property? The answer must be: Because it provides socio-cultural justifications for discrimination on the basis of presumed and irrelevant biological properties."

1) The study claims that the concept of "race" can't be used to classify groups in a meaningful, biological way. Of course they're going to have a hard time determining race, when they don't believe in the concept to begin with. There are countless studies that can be used to differentiate subspecies (or race) for a plethora of animals. This appears to be a covert 'there is greater variation within than between' argument, which has been debunked to death. If you genuinely agree with their claim here, I can write a thread debunking the claim.

2) The concept of racism is deconstructed here: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/174

#32

EvilNom

Debates: 1

Posts: 5

EvilNom

08.27.2018 10:26PM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

Oh, I see. You're a troll. Well, firstly let's "address the fact" that you made a wild claim that "Jews have a superior IQ". You provided no evidence to support this claim, nor did you provide any evidence to support its connotations (i.e. that Jews are a biological race). Hence, the "claims" you accuse me of making are actually my responses to your own initial unsupported claim. In other words, YOU ARE TURNING THE FACTS UPSIDE DOWN. Quite literally.

Now, let's take a look at the rest of your untruthful nonsense shall we, Mr Trolly McTrollson? You further claim:-

"It didn't take me long to find what I suspect to be the problem:"

Which is false, because it took you several hours. After which you cherry-picked three lines from the study and purposefully used them outside of their intended context. The context of the study is given away largely by its title, which is: "Genetic markers cannot determine Jewish descent". Of course, genetic markers can determine with great ease Negroid, Caucasian and Mongoloid descent, because all of those classifications are genuine human sub-races. You further claim:-

"The study claims that the concept of "race" can't be used to classify groups in a meaningful, biological way."

Which is disproved merely by what you yourself quoted, since you swapped the words biological and meaningful around to create your own amended version of the text. You then claim:-

"Of course they're going to have a hard time determining race, when they don't believe in the concept to begin with."

Which is a straw man argument of your own devising. Nowhere in the study does the author claim he does not believe in the concept of race. Hence, you are continuously making false assertion after false assertion. Next you claim:-

"There are countless studies that can be used to differentiate subspecies (or race) for a plethora of animals"

Which as far as I can tell has absolutely no relevance to the fact that "there is no Jewish genotype". Next:-

"This appears to be a covert 'there is greater variation within than between' argument, which has been debunked to death."

I have no idea what this even means and I strongly suspect neither do you. You are merely inventing your own fallacious gobbldegook language which you are using as a springboard for yet more false claims. Finally:-

"If you genuinely agree with their claim here, I can write a thread debunking the claim."

You are derailing the topic. Prove your claim that Jews have a superior IQ or stfu, you fallacious halfwit.

#33

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

08.27.2018 11:03PM

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@EvilNom

Settle, petal.

Well, firstly let's "address the fact" that you made a wild claim that "Jews have a superior IQ". You provided no evidence to support this claim

That doesn't give you the right to claim that they don't -- both claims have a BoP.

Anyway, Wikipedia is a good start for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence.

If there really are no genetic markers for Jews (or at least an insufficient amount to create the race), why is it that those labelled Jews outperform other racial groups consistently? Is it merely coincidence? Just look at the achievements:

- 54% of World Chess Champions are Jews

- 37% of National Medal of Science recipients are Jews

- 29% of U.S. Nobel Peace Prizes are Jews (despite being 2% of the population: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States))

- 42% of Nobel laureates in medicine or physiology are Jews

Also consider that the world's Jewish population is roughly 14 million, of which is a tiny fraction of the world's population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country).

Which is disproved merely by what you yourself quoted, since you swapped the words biological and meaningful around to create your own amended version of the text.

I restated the quote.

Which is a straw man argument of your own devising. Nowhere in the study does the author claim he does not believe in the concept of race. Hence, you are continuously making false assertion after false assertion.

I merely suspected this was another instance of a race denying argument, especially since the researcher(s) used the term "racist".

I have no idea what this even means and I strongly suspect neither do you. You are merely inventing your own fallacious gobbldegook language which you are using as a springboard for yet more false claims.

A common race-denying argument is that because there is greater variance within humans than between human races, human races don't exist. I still suspect this is a covert attempt at that.

As I re-read the research, I'll only prove my point further:

"Race, a loose term of socio-morphological classification (and evaluation/discrimination) of living creatures (plants included) now became a formal term in the sequence of the biological hierarchy of nature. But, whereas species were the ultimate assemblage of the Linnaean systematics for which an empiric criterion of discrimination could be conceived, namely the possibility of producing (fertile) hybrids between its members, races were an added—subjective—non-biological level of classification within species, between the members of which fertile hybrids may be produced. There have been no accepted empiric criteria to differentially classify any human races or other sub-species. Thus, how can genetics help decide who is a Jew?"

This part appears to be the false continuum argument which, again, is common in race denying.

I might write a thread on this problem, but in short, if we categorise humans with sufficient number of loci, we can accurately sort humans into their colloquially identified races. Bamshad et al (2003) demonstrates the process https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180234/

Again, the underlying problem with your research paper is that it doesn't fully accept the concept of human race.

#34

EvilNom

Debates: 1

Posts: 5

EvilNom

08.27.2018 11:39PM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

That doesn't give you the right to claim that they don't -- both claims have a BoP.

Yes it does and no, they do not. In a court of law, only the claimant holds the burden of proof. The defendant (i.e. me) can make whatever claims he likes in his own defence.

Anyway, Wikipedia is a good start for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence.

This is not evidence that Jews have a superior IQ. This is a blind link drop. It is furthermore a blind link drop which concerns only one denomination of Jews (i.e. Ashkenazis), which are not Semites. The Ashkenazis are descended genetically from paganite Greeks and Iranians who converted to the religion of Judaism as recently as 2,000 years ago. There is absolutely no genetic relationship between them and the original Israeli Jews. See:-

Most of the world's modern Jewish population, as well as the Yiddish language, come from Turkey and not other parts of the Middle East, according to a new study.

Dr Eran Elhaik of the University of Sheffield used a computer modelling system to convert Ashkenazi Jewish DNA - the Jewish communities historically located in Europe - data into geographical information, which revealed that 90 percent of Ashkenazi Jews descend from the Greeks, Iranians and others who colonised northern Anatolia (now northern Turkey) more than 2,000 years ago before converting to Judaism.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/most-jews-descended-ancient-turkey-new-study-2107639949

Hence, at best you are making an argument that Greeks have superior intelligence, and are falsely attributing that to "Jews".

54% of World Chess Champions are Jews
- 37% of National Medal of Science recipients are Jews
- 29% of U.S. Nobel Peace Prizes are Jews (despite being 2% of the population: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States))
- 42% of Nobel laureates in medicine or physiology are Jews

You are flagrantly attempting to conflate correlation with causation. Conservatives do this all the time when they break down crime statistics on the basis of race. Here are some of my own statistics:-

80% of World Chess Champions have blue eyes.

96% of Germans have two legs.

Therefore, if we continue your patent intellectual sophism, people with blue eyes are more intelligent and having two legs makes you German.

Obviously, this is a fallacy, as is the implication that your own statistics evidence Jews have superior intelligence. They do not. Multiple more plausible explanations exist, such as Jews enjoying greater economic privilege than non-Jews. The reason you don't see many geniuses coming out of Africa and winning science prizes is because they are too busy looking for things to eat. not because they are somehow less intelligent than geniuses from elsewhere.

Since you have resorted to fallacy to support your absurd initial claim, I will consider that to be your concession that you are wrong.

#35

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

08.28.2018 12:10AM

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@EvilNom

Yes it does and no, they do not. In a court of law, only the claimant holds the burden of proof. The defendant (i.e. me) can make whatever claims he likes in his own defence.

It's incredibly difficult to do, but if you could open your eyes, you would see this is an internet forum, not a court of law.

This is not evidence that Jews have a superior IQ. This is a blind link drop. It is furthermore a blind link drop which concerns only one denomination of Jews (i.e. Ashkenazis), which are not Semites. The Ashkenazis are descended genetically from paganite Greeks and Iranians who converted to the religion of Judaism as recently as 2,000 years ago. There is absolutely no genetic relationship between them and the original Israeli Jews.

Ah, this is where the confusion is. When I refer to Jews, I refer specifically to the Ashkenazis Jews (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews). My apologies is that wasn't clear.

Dr Eran Elhaik of the University of Sheffield used a computer modelling system to convert Ashkenazi Jewish DNA - the Jewish communities historically located in Europe - data into geographical information, which revealed that 90 percent of Ashkenazi Jews descend from the Greeks, Iranians and others who colonised northern Anatolia (now northern Turkey) more than 2,000 years ago before converting to Judaism.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/most-jews-descended-ancient-turkey-new-study-2107639949

There could be truth to this -- I don't know off the top of my head.

You are flagrantly attempting to conflate correlation with causation. Conservatives do this all the time when they break down crime statistics on the basis of race. Here are some of my own statistics:-

80% of World Chess Champions have blue eyes.
96% of Germans have two legs.

My argument was inductive, and whilst that isn't as strong as deductive reasoning, it can be quite strong if multiple data points are given (which is exactly what I provided). Whilst I cannot argue that, based on my data points, that Jews are achieving so much due solely to intelligence, it makes a strong case for it.

Obviously, this is a fallacy, as is the implication that your own statistics evidence Jews have superior intelligence. They do not. Multiple more plausible explanations exist, such as Jews enjoying greater economic privilege than non-Jews. The reason you don't see many geniuses coming out of Africa and winning science prizes is because they are too busy looking for things to eat. not because they are somehow less intelligent than geniuses from elsewhere.

You're committing the same alleged "fallacy" you're accusing me of, lol.

In any case, you're provably wrong. Whilst I didn't address your claim in depth here (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/194?page=1&post_number=13), I do briefly touch on the White-Black I.Q. gap (since Black Americans were shipped from Africa, this is relevant to your claim here). In short, environmental factors simply cannot make a genetically stupid person smart.

1672 days later

#36

IwantRooseveltagain

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,597

IwantRooseveltagain

03.27.2023 08:32PM

In his comments to Democracy Now, Mr Chomsky said the media was “focusing on issues which are pretty marginal. There are much more serious issues that are being put to the side”.

What should the media do exactly - Say it’s wrong for Congress to invite the President of Israel to come speak? This is not the same as Russia buying ads on Facebook to spread misinformation or having Russians infiltrate groups like the NRA to funnel foreign money to preferred candidates.

#37

IwantRooseveltagain

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,597