punishment for abortion shouldn't be the same as murder early in the pregnancy

Author: n8nrgmi

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#121
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@Polytheist-Witch
Pending the care facility, the majority could survive at 24 weeks today according to the estimates I have read, which is why I specified the extremely early 24 weeks. I don't have any experience to offer on one pound babies with underdeveloped lungs and don't intend to suggest any political point in that. The earlier a baby is in development the more critical their care to reduce the chances of life altering complications.




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#122
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@Alec
do you think in vitro fertilization for infertile couples should be outlawed? should people who disgard of unused embryos against the law be executed too?
#123
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@n8nrgmi
do you think in vitro fertilization for infertile couples should be outlawed?

What is "in vitro fertilization"?

should people who disgard of unused embryos against the law be executed too?
Was the embryo alive to begin with?  If not, then it's basically the same thing as throwing away a dead person, not something I would do but it's just a dead person.  This is off topic, but I would want to make it mandatory for people who are dead to have their organs taken out of them in order to be able to let someone else use them(assuming the organs are good enough).  In other words, I want being an organ donor to be mandatory.  I think I should create a forum for this and is below:

#124
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@n8nrgmi
but i wouldn't punish women in early pregnancy...
Why not?

(IFF) abortion is murder (THEN) paying a doctor to kill your baby is EXACTLY the same as paying a hit-man to murder your 3 year old.
#125
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@Alec
Was the embryo alive to begin with? 
Definitely.  That would be a YES.

If not, then it's basically the same thing as throwing away a dead person, not something I would do but it's just a dead person.
It's basically the same thing as throwing away a person on life-support, not something I would do, but it's just a person on life-support.
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#126
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@Alec
in vitro fertilization is where an egg and sperm is combined outside the body and then implanted into the woman to become pregnant. almost always, there are extra embryos that are created that are later destroyed as unused. the doctors choose the best looking embryo to implant. what should be outlawed here? should discarding unused embryos result in the death penalty? 
#127
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@3RU7AL
There should be proof that the person will not recover in a time period of lets say 10 years before I would be okay with pulling the plug on them.
#128
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@n8nrgmi
in vitro fertilization is where an egg and sperm is combined outside the body and then implanted into the woman to become pregnant. almost always, there are extra embryos that are created that are later destroyed as unused. the doctors choose the best looking embryo to implant. what should be outlawed here? should discarding unused embryos result in the death penalty?
(IFF) human embryo = human person (THEN) killing human embryo = killing human person.
#129
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@Alec
There should be proof that the person will not recover in a time period of lets say 10 years before I would be okay with pulling the plug on them.
It is impossible to prove when a person may or may not recover.

But as a point of curiosity, does this mean you believe it's less of a crime to kill old people?
#130
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@n8nrgmi
Are the cells in the embryo specialized?  If not, then it's basically cancer.  If it is, then it should be illegal to discard extra embryos.  Find some woman who is willing to be pregnant for 9 months or just don't create as many embryos.  I don't know if this is your field of work and if it is, you know more then I do on this so you might clear things up if I get things wrong.

#131
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@3RU7AL
I think murdering an old person is as bad as murdering a 25 year old.  Otherwise, the penalty for murdering an old person would be less then a 25 year old.  But all murder is callous.  All murder is evil and all murder must be stopped.
#132
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@Alec
Your view of women as nothing more than baby carriers is sick 
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#133
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@3RU7AL
early abortion shouldn't be punished because no one knows if the fetus is a person. it's not like it's clear one way or another, so the law should defer on the side of caution and outlaw almost all abortion, but be real enough to aknowledge it's there's not a clear answer. i'm a little extreme in that i dont want to punish women at all, but there aren't many pro lifers who would get into serious punishment for abortion. it's just a matter of degree of difference. i wouldn't be opposed to a slap on the wrist of some kind, on that note. 
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#134
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@Alec
how are you so sure that a fertilized egg is a person? a snow ball obviously isn't a snow man right? at what point does a bunch of snow balls become a snow man? there's no clear answer. i agree you dont see snow balls that self replicate like the early  fetus does, but the analogy of the snow man still stands. i can see erring on the side of caution in outlawing abortion given the uncertainty, but i cannot see doling out executions for abortion, if it's not even clearly a murder. 
#135
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@Polytheist-Witch
My view of women is people that need to wait until marriage for sex and not give any boy any opportunity for sex until he marries her consensually.  This minimizes the spread of STDs and prevents pregnancy.
#136
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@n8nrgmi
early abortion shouldn't be punished because no one knows if the fetus is a person. it's not like it's clear one way or another, so the law should defer on the side of caution and outlaw almost all abortion, but be real enough to aknowledge it's there's not a clear answer. i'm a little extreme in that i dont want to punish women at all, but there aren't many pro lifers who would get into serious punishment for abortion. it's just a matter of degree of difference. i wouldn't be opposed to a slap on the wrist of some kind, on that note. 
The mother is more culpable than the doctor.

They should both get the same punishment as they would for the murder of an adult person.

It makes no sense to punish the doctor (hit-man) more than the mother (mob boss).
#137
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@Alec
My view of women is people that need to wait until marriage for sex and not give any boy any opportunity for sex until he marries her consensually.  This minimizes the spread of STDs and prevents pregnancy.
Is that just a personal opinion, or is that a policy proposal?
#138
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@Alec
I think murdering an old person is as bad as murdering a 25 year old.  Otherwise, the penalty for murdering an old person would be less then a 25 year old.  But all murder is callous.  All murder is evil and all murder must be stopped.
Ok, so do you also believe that throwing embryos in the trash is as bad as murdering a handful of 25 year olds?
#139
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@n8nrgmi
 i'm a little extreme in that i dont want to punish women at all, but there aren't many pro lifers who would get into serious punishment for abortion.
Donald Trump does.  Ben Shapiro does.  It's a prominent position.  Also, since I'm kindof very conservative, I don't care if 1% of the population agrees with me.  My beliefs are my beliefs.  Despite this, I do have an open mind and I'm willing to convince others on it and vice versa if the rationale is strong enough.

how are you so sure that a fertilized egg is a person?
I don't believe this.  I think you become a human at 3 to 5 weeks, when the cells specialize.

For everyone that has had legal abortions, they wouldn't get punished.  There is a lot of crazy stuff people would do if it was legal.  However, once it becomes illegal, examples would be made and it could virtually eradicate abortion in America, which both the left and the right want to do.  Lets do it.
#140
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@3RU7AL
My view of women is people that need to wait until marriage for sex and not give any boy any opportunity for sex until he marries her consensually.  This minimizes the spread of STDs and prevents pregnancy.
Is that just a personal opinion, or is that a policy proposal?
Both.

Ok, so do you also believe that throwing embryos in the trash is as bad as murdering a handful of 25 year olds?
Not embryos, but killing and trashing priorly living fetuses that were killed is as bad as murdering 25 year olds and disposing of the bodies.  If you look at pictures of abortion, you might agree with that.
#141
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I think murdering an old person is as bad as murdering a 25 year old.  Otherwise, the penalty for murdering an old person would be less then a 25 year old.  But all murder is callous.  All murder is evil and all murder must be stopped.
You had an issue with rape in which you didn't differentiate violent crime from statutory rape. Do you think that doctors who perform an abortion present a threat to society at large? If the problem could be solved by revoking their license, why would you treat them the same as a terrorist?

#142
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@Alec
My view of women is people that need to wait until marriage for sex and not give any boy any opportunity for sex until he marries her consensually.  This minimizes the spread of STDs and prevents pregnancy.
Is that just a personal opinion, or is that a policy proposal?
Both.
How do you propose enforcing this policy?

Ok, so do you also believe that throwing embryos in the trash is as bad as murdering a handful of 25 year olds?
Not embryos, but killing and trashing priorly living fetuses that were killed is as bad as murdering 25 year olds and disposing of the bodies.  If you look at pictures of abortion, you might agree with that.
The embryo refers to the first stage of development of a baby from the moment of fertilization. It is called a fetus from the eighth week of conception. [LINK]

Ok, are you suggesting that you approve of abortion before the 8th week?
#143
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@3RU7AL
How do you propose enforcing this policy?
I want people that have premarital sex to pay a fine that the parents should pay for.  I don't know how to enforce it, but merely making it illegal is bound to reduce premarital sex by some extent.  Some people would pay the fine.

 It is called a fetus from the eighth week of conception.

Ok, are you suggesting that you approve of abortion before the 8th week?
From what I've read, the border isin't the 8th week but the 6th week.


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#144
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@Alec
why is specialization the magical point of human life? at this earliest point, isn't this just a bunch of snow balls compared to a snow man? also, human life is defined to end with a heart beat and brain waves ceasing, so why not when those things begin? 
#145
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@n8nrgmi
why is specialization the magical point of human life?
Because that's when the baby has the cells needed to be a human?

at this earliest point, isn't this just a bunch of snow balls compared to a snow man?
At an earlier point, it's just snow.

also, human life is defined to end with a heart beat and brain waves ceasing, so why not when those things begin? 
#146
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@Alec
So live by your rules or die. Freedom hating bigotry. 
#147
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@Polytheist-Witch
I believe in the death penalty for murder, high treason, and maybe serial rape.  Not all my rules have the death penalty as the punishment.  An example is weed.  If you get caught smoking weed, you should pay a fine, at least for now.  If Canada's weed experiment yields good results, it can be legal.


#148
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@Alec
So you are happy with people smoking dope but are against a woman having control of her body. Who do you intend giving control of your body just to be fair.
#149
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
You don't ignore you quiver in fear. Poor peasant.
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#150
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@YeshuaBought
@YeshuaRedeemed

so your name and the way you act makes you seem like you're a solid christian that is sure of their salvation. how do you feel that so many of the most basic christians out there view your abortion stance as a heresy? why don't you feel you are unrepentant of a grave sin? how does your liberal view of abortion affect your salvation and relationship with God?