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@Greyparrot
lets not forget the artificial fertilizers, weed and bug killers, Roundup anyone? we need more of that stuff in the air, water and ground.
Veganism
Posts
Total:
169
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@Greyparrot
Fig trees might require bugs to grow their fruit.
The impression I got from studying Jainism was that a true Jain saint would be someone who goes off into a cave and slowly starves themselves to death.
That seems to be the logical conclusion of the vegan moralfag route.
7 days later
I never understood the idea of not eating meat. Don't we need a healthy balanced diet? Didn't we used to hunt and kill buffalo for centuries before farming became a thing? http://meatandhealth.redmeatinfo.com/red-meat-and-health-the-facts/eating-a-balanced-diet.aspx
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@Christen
I don't eat meat, and neither does my spouse.
Monastics in the Orthodox Church are usually vegetarian.
I don't believe it is necessary to eat meat to be healthy.
2085 days later
On YouTube, I once heard someone argue,
"If you aren't vegan, you're an animal abuser."
I suppose, but one can still argue there exists a scale of abuse.
Or the separation between actions and ends.
However it gets done,
Killing 'is seen as a brutal action usually, I think.
But I don't agree that all 'methods of killing are 'equally brutal.
I view 'war to be brutal (Usually),
Yet, I view wars 'methods, as varying in brutality.
I think better of armies that do not torture, than armies that do,
Better of armies that attempt to avoid civilian casualties, than ones that aim for civilians.
One might mock 'supposed good armies, give many examples of when they have tortured or killed civilians,
But there is 'something in having 'less war crimes.
Most everyone is mean at some point in life, doesn't mean that a person who is mean once a week, is as bad as someone mean every day.
The 'effort to less harm is still commendable. I argue.
Of the separation between actions and ends,
A person may vote against slavery, yet continue to use cotton.
Have they then whipped a slave?
You 'do say abuse, and don't say that people 'literally slaughter animals themselves.
. . . I suppose people 'contribute towards an end result, but I'm not sure I'd call them animal abusers.
Drummer Hoff Fired it off.
Hm, but then how much influence must a person have before they are considered 'culpable?
Charles Manson might say he's never killed anyone,
Trump claims no responsibility for the Jan event,
An individual in a mob might claim they hit a person third, but not the 20th killing time,
Or that they were only part of the mob, not one of the individuals who lynched a man.
Doesn't 'sound good, I admit.
Unless one was at one of those restaurants where they select a live lobster or chicken, for the cook to cook.
They are not specifically 'telling someone to kill an animal. But their actions 'do support the industry. Such as when one buys fenced goods, drugs, sweat shop phones, or Papa Johns Pizza.
I don't think the difference is paper thin myself.
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@Lemming
A vegan is a human derived of omnivores, who has an idea and establishes a principle.
So tomorrow we all become vegan and release all animals to take their chances.
What then?
I think that natural selection would be just as brutal as farming.
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@zedvictor4
Some situations might be just as brutal, yeah.
But I don't particularly like meeting my meat, I dislike the personalization of it.
Some situations for humans free, are worse than humans enslaved, but I 'still don't much care for slavery myself.
Videos and knowledge of certain living situations for the livestock animals the humans keep,
Certain videos and knowledge of methods of slaughter, discomfort me.
. . .
Certain breeds of dogs and other pets, kind of messed up, the deformities caused by how humans breed them,
Just because a pampered life is better, doesn't mean we 'ought allow other humans to breed a painful existence into animals.
. . .
Personally I lean towards Efilism at times,
Destruction of life and existence.
If various animals have short lifespans of inferior quality, why should we encourage or allow them to breed?
They have not human rationality or sentience, understanding of existence, (I assume)
I lean towards the extinction of all life but humans.
Humans I don't check off the list out of self preservation, unlikelihood, and choice I suppose.
Practically speaking, we give other humans a choice that we do not give animals.
We give other humans a choice that we do not give animals.
I'm not sure that this is always the case.
Notwithstanding that humans are animals.
If the universal best case scenario is the preservation of the Earth's environment and the re-establishment of a natural order, then human extinction is perhaps the best option.
But we must question what natural order means...And I tend to think that natural order is whatever it may be at any given time.
So by virtue of intellect we put ourselves at the top of the tree, or even detach ourselves from the tree.
Though we can only speculate on what the universal best cast scenario might be.
Maybe there isn't one.
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@zedvictor4
Though we can only speculate on what the universal best cast scenario might be.Maybe there isn't one.
What did Jesus say about eating meat?
There is no direct statement on the subject by Jesus in the New Testament. The story of Jesus feeding fish to people would support the view that Jesus may have been a pescatarian. Paul seems to have been more open to meat eating, but even Paul was open to vegetarianism.
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@Shila
The son of Adam was a shepherd.
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@zedvictor4
The son of Adam was a shepherd.
In the biblical Book of Genesis, Cain and Abel are the first two sons of Adam and Eve. Cain, the firstborn, was a farmer, and his brother Abel was a shepherd. The brothers made sacrifices, each from his own fields, to God. God had regard for Abel's offering, but had no regard for Cain's.
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@zedvictor4
I'd agree humans don't always give other humans 'much of a choice.
That humans are also animals, worries me that animals other than human, can be human, at times.
It's not the preservation of environment and nature I would seek, but the destruction of unchosen pain, unchosen servitude.
Fair point on the natural order, but people develop and seek their preferences.
Subjectively, I think people will seek their value scenarios, all that one 'can do, I think.
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@Lemming
That humans are also animals, worries me that animals other than human, can be human, at times.
What makes animals not human?
Animals eat, sleep and drink just like we do, but at the same time, animals are nothing like humans at all. They aren't as highly evolved as humans, and they lack self-awareness, which is considered to be one of the defining characteristics separating humans and animals.
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@Shila
Yep, the first four people ever, and one by luck domesticates a flock of sheep and the another grows some veg.
I expect that Adam had taken up chartered accountancy.
And so god was a obviously a carnivore.
And the boys must have been Sister fucking rednecks.
Yet, after murdering his brother, Cain buggered of to Nod built a city and fucked all the Noddy women.
Where the fuck did the Noddies come from?
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@Lemming
Yep, the central nervous system has it's pros and cons.
And mental anguish is the product of overthink.
And so, living organisms create digestible and nutritious tissue that others must consume.
Some are seemingly inert and noiseless, where as others are seemingly cute, cuddly and squeal.
Such was the evolution of species.
Though if you believe in the Christian GOD, as I've just been discussing with Shila, GOD quite clearly was more impressed by mutton, rather than chickpeas.
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@zedvictor4
Well, people interpret the God of the Bible differently I suppose.
Some argue it had more to do with Cain's character and actions than his specific offering,
Though maybe such an interpretation would be more agreeable to all if Cain and Abel had offered the exact same type and quality of offerings.
Still, I note many places in the Bible where it is not animal sacrifice, but obedience, right actions, and mercy are desired.
Course, just my interpretation.
Though I don't suppose it's 'bad to honor God, if God is something one values and follows.
I'm doubtful of the value of animal sacrifice though.
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
“What are all your sacrifices to me? ” asks the LORD. “I have had enough of burnt offerings and rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I have no desire for the blood of bulls, lambs, or male goats.
But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’
The Mighty One, God the LORD,
speaks and summons the earth
from where the sun rises to where it sets.
From Zion, perfect in beauty,
God shines forth.
Our God approaches and will not be silent!
Consuming fire precedes Him,
and a tempest rages around Him.
He summons the heavens above,
and the earth, that He may judge His people:
“Gather to Me My saints,
who made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”
And the heavens proclaim His righteousness,
for God Himself is Judge.
speaks and summons the earth
from where the sun rises to where it sets.
From Zion, perfect in beauty,
God shines forth.
Our God approaches and will not be silent!
Consuming fire precedes Him,
and a tempest rages around Him.
He summons the heavens above,
and the earth, that He may judge His people:
“Gather to Me My saints,
who made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”
And the heavens proclaim His righteousness,
for God Himself is Judge.
“Hear, O My people, and I will speak,
O Israel, and I will testify against you:
I am God, your God.
I do not rebuke you for your sacrifices,
and your burnt offerings are ever before Me.
I have no need for a bull from your stall
or goats from your pens,
for every beast of the forest is Mine—
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,
and the creatures of the field are Mine.
If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls,
or drink the blood of goats?
Sacrifice a thank offering to God,
and fulfill your vows to the Most High.
Call upon Me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you will honor Me.”
To the wicked, however, God says,
“What right have you to recite My statutes
and to bear My covenant on your lips?
For you hate My instruction
and cast My words behind you.
When you see a thief, you befriend him,
and throw in your lot with adulterers.
You unleash your mouth for evil
and harness your tongue to deceit.
You sit and malign your brother;
you slander your own mother’s son.
You have done these things, and I kept silent;
you thought I was just like you.
But now I rebuke you
and accuse you to your face.
Now consider this, you who forget God,
lest I tear you to pieces,
with no one to rescue you:
He who sacrifices a thank offering honors Me,
and to him who rightly orders his way,
I will show the salvation of God.”
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@Lemming
Now consider this, you who forget God,
lest I tear you to pieces,
with no one to rescue you:
He who sacrifices a thank offering honors Me,
and to him who rightly orders his way,
I will show the salvation of God.”
The Romans sacrificed Jesus. God to show his appreciation allowed them to create the Roman Catholic Church to replace Judaism. The church has over a billion followers today with the Pope as its leader.
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@Shila
Catholicism is big business.
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@zedvictor4
Catholicism is big business.
By crucifying Jesus the Romans help Jesus achieve his mission and fulfilled the prophecy. God rewarded the Romans by letting them create the Roman Catholic Church even though they destroyed his temple in 70AD.
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@Shila
Or.
Folk made up stuff.
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@zedvictor4
Some people argue that, yeah.
But I think much of the Bible speaks to observable facets of human nature and game theory.
I think that many of the values and goals espoused by the Bible, have been and are heartfelt true, by many of it's writers and followers.
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@zedvictor4
Or.Folk made up stuff.
It’s based on history and facts. How God operates.
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@Lemming
@Shila
The Bible:
Is perhaps, loosely based upon social history from one very small region of Planet Earth
Which may have been recorded with a certain amount of accuracy, though retold speculatively
Embellishing it with a fantasy sub-plot, turns it into a myth.
Many such myths and associated GODS were developed out of human ignorance.
I see nothing special in the Christian Version of the Abrahamic fantasy.
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@zedvictor4
To each their own, I suppose.
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@zedvictor4
The Bible:Is perhaps, loosely based upon social history from one very small region of Planet EarthWhich may have been recorded with a certain amount of accuracy, though retold speculativelyEmbellishing it with a fantasy sub-plot, turns it into a myth.Many such myths and associated GODS were developed out of human ignorance.I see nothing special in the Christian Version of the Abrahamic fantasy.
The Bible has withstood the test of time. It is still one of the most quoted books.
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@Shila
Doesn't prove anything.
Other than some folk put a book together.
And other folk read it.
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@zedvictor4
Doesn't prove anything.Other than some folk put a book together.And other folk read it.
Over 2 billion Christians believe in it. More than any other book.
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@Shila
That's about 6.2 billion who don't believe it then.
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@zedvictor4
That's about 6.2 billion who don't believe it then.
They believe in other religions. Not vaganism.