-->
@3RU7AL
Nonsense, criminal law is not coercive in nature. You commit the crime, and are brought to justice.BY FORCE.
Only if you resist arrest.
"Religious Freedom" = Discrimination = Hate
Posts
Total:
737
-->
@Snoopy
school choice then?
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Yeah, its common sense.
We are never going to improve our education systems until the people actually want to take the initiative themselves.
-->
@Snoopy
All schools should have equal funding on a per student basis.If a mother doesn't want her son to attend their failing state subsidized inner city school, she should not be forced to rely on it.
Basing school funding on local real-estate taxes is clearly in violation of Title 9.
-->
@Snoopy
voucher systems sounds like a better idea then the current state of many schools and it should be up to the individual as to which school and type of, they apply the voucher to.
-->
@3RU7AL
All schools should have equal funding on a per student basis.Basing school funding on local real-estate taxes is clearly in violation of Title 9.
All communities should be able to have their own public education in a free country. Lack of state funding is not necessarily an issue. The state funding bad teachers could be an issue. The state funding based on standardized curriculum could be an issue. People feeling like their only option is to vote is an issue.
-->
@Snoopy
No I'm not talking about UBI, but allotting the funding already apportioned for education in a manner which doesn't lend to coercion from whatever interests currently preoccupy the state government, whether they lend to neglect, standardized improvement, or intrusion. Actually, give people back the money that the state uses to artificially prop up public education, for education.
Why would you take the money in the first place then?
It seems ridiculous to take people's money and then just give it back to the same people.
Why not simply close all public schools and just cut everyone's property taxes?
We can go back to the days when we had PRIVATE firefighters and PRIVATE police officers too!!
Hey, if you can't afford your monthly firefighter and police bill, then they won't take your call!!
This system works out great for the rich but probably not so great for everyone else.
-->
@Snoopy
No I'm not talking about UBI, but allotting the funding already apportioned for education in a manner which doesn't lend to coercion from whatever interests currently preoccupy the state government, whether they lend to neglect, standardized improvement, or intrusion. Actually, give people back the money that the state uses to artificially prop up public education, for education.
I don't understand what this means in practical terms. "Alotting the funding" to whom, and how? If it isn't UBI, then how does every person get their allotment? How does the government ensure this allotment is used for education and not, say, basic needs like food? "Coercion from whatever interests...." what does this mean? Can you give me an example, like "Because the state government is preoccupied with XYZ, the taxpayer is coerced into ABC"? LEnding to neglect, standardized improvement, intrusion...what's this mean?
Give people back the money that the state uses to artificially prop up public education for education...that sounds indeed like an argument against public education and for 'pay your own way for education.' Eliminating the shared burden of public education (and I'm not saying it's executed perfectly in every municipality, nor am I saying it cannot and should not be improved) in favor of individualizing that burden immediately puts people at the lower income levels at a severe disadvantage. They have a severe disadvantage now, but you're saying...well it sounds like you're saying tough shit, do something about it, here's your tax dollars back which in no way will allow you to pay for private schooling. I'm sure there's more to your argument here that I'm just missing.
-->
@3RU7AL
Why would you take the money in the first place then?
To help people in need, unlike your state. Your state's goal is to take advantage of desperation, and meddle in people's lives.
It seems ridiculous to take people's money and then just give it back to the same people.Why not simply close all public schools and just cut everyone's property taxes?
I'm not saying that. I want my community to have good public education.
We can go back to the days when we had PRIVATE firefighters and PRIVATE police officers too!!Hey, if you can't afford your monthly firefighter and police bill, then they won't take your call!!This system works out great for the rich but probably not so great for everyone else.
Its a form of social security, like it should have been in the first place. You are contending that I am mandating the abolition of state coercion. I am only demanding decency from you, by giving people the dues that are already apportioned if they don't find that state subsidized education best suits their interest. I could say something more specific, like school vouchers, but I want to emphasize that the system without such consideration should be considered an injustice, not normal.
-->
@Snoopy
Why would you take the money in the first place then?To help people in need, unlike your state. Your state's goal is to take advantage of desperation, and meddle in people's lives.
So you take money from them to help them?
When you say basically I want to take advantage and meddle, are you talking about climate change and evolution in textbooks?
It seems ridiculous to take people's money and then just give it back to the same people.Why not simply close all public schools and just cut everyone's property taxes?I'm not saying that. I want my community to have public education.
The rich public schools are amazing. Nobody wants to flee from them.
Only the poor public schools will get defunded.
And the private schools don't have to serve disabled or non-english speaking children.
What happens to poor neighborhoods when the public school closes because half the kids took vouchers to go to the local Christian school?
There is no mechanism to make sure parents have reasonable options for non-Christian kids with special needs.
We can go back to the days when we had PRIVATE firefighters and PRIVATE police officers too!!Hey, if you can't afford your monthly firefighter and police bill, then they won't take your call!!This system works out great for the rich but probably not so great for everyone else.Its a form of social security, like it should have been in the first place. You are contending that I am mandating the abolition of state coercion. I am only demanding decency from you, by giving people the dues that are already apportioned if they don't find that state subsidized education best suits their interest.
The problem is that if half the kids abandon pubic schools with their vouchers, then there is nothing left for the most vulnerable.
-->
@ludofl3x
Well stated.individualizing that burden immediately puts people at the lower income levels at a severe disadvantage.
-->
@3RU7AL
So you take money from them to help them?
Well, you'd better have a good reason for doing so, right?
When you say basically I want to take advantage and meddle, are you talking about climate change and evolution in textbooks?
No, I wasn't intending to refer to a curriculum
-->
@3RU7AL
individualizing that burden immediately puts people at the lower income levels at a severe disadvantage.Well stated.
It makes absolutely no sense because the financial burden in a social security system is shared. That person is presuming that I'm an imbecile.
-->
@Snoopy
Please further explain how your system would work, because it's plain that it's lost on my and Brutal at the very least.
-->
@ludofl3x
I am not advocating for specific system. The funds are already available to being apportioned to children in the current system, but only if they are used to prop up the public school, while the poor have limited options. I'm saying that those state funds, which are substantial, could be apportioned in a more fitting manner. Why it is being assumed otherwise against all good sense and reason, I am not aware.
-->
@3RU7AL
What happens to poor neighborhoods when the public school closes because half the kids took vouchers to go to the local Christian school?
then they will have to compete for those students by offering a better product. It's a double edged sword, there are very bright and talented kids suck in these shit hole schools because they don't have a voucher system. Imagine the lost talent because of how the current system is. The question is has the public school systems in these areas gotten better, worse or stagnant?
There's probably a hybrid of the current system with a voucher that would work and make sense. Unless you believe the current system is good the way it is, which I do not.
-->
@Snoopy
I'm saying that those state funds, which are substantial, should be apportioned in a more fitting manner.
The state funds are tax dollars, which I thought you said you wanted to give back to parents if they didn't want to participate in public education. I guess I don't see your idea very clearly in spite of having asked for clarification (and in fairness not receiving very much). Who decides the more fitting manner? And how would they be apportioned, according to what criteria? I guess I'm struggling to see how you'd be bettering the current system, which is everyone pays taxes which support public benefits.
-->
@ludofl3x
Who decides the more fitting manner?
Parents, teachers etc...
And how would they be apportioned, according to what criteria?
Basically, an equal slice for each child
-->
@Snoopy
I am not advocating for specific system. The funds are already available to being apportioned to children in the current system, but only if they are used to prop up the public school system. I'm saying that those state funds, which are substantial, should be apportioned in a more fitting manner.
Are you suggesting that parents should be able to get a voucher that is valued according to the per child dollar amount allotted by their local school district in order to DEFUND public schools and so the kids can take that voucher to a private school?
-->
@3RU7AL
Lol, you sound like a union rep. You are suggesting that the public school might actually have some competition. That's a good thing. If they want to keep their job, they'll have to earn it.
-->
@Snoopy
Watch how easily this becomes unmanageable: which parents, which teachers, according to whose criteria? "Basically an equal slice for each child"...an equal slice of what? The old tax dollar pool? Aren't you still having to collect taxes for education, only now you might not be providing that education? I am very interested to hear more fleshing out on this idea, though we're far afield from Jesus or religions objections to cakes and vaccines. "They'll have to earn it," but they'll have to do so with no or diminished tax dollars to support it. How do you suggest the 'earn it' in such cases? Since they can no longer attract teachers, who are paid with tax dollars.
-->
@3RU7AL
Would the total pool for public education then be reduced by the number of kids who take the vouchers? If the answer is yes, it does sound like a way to defund public school while providing the more affluent with better options than the more vulnerable.
-->
@ludofl3x
Yep, public schools would lose funding if their attendance goes down.
-->
@Snoopy
So then how would that give poorer parts of the country or state access to nominally equal educational options? If you can't afford to supplement the stipend you receive from opting out of the tax for public school, then you're forced to stay in public school that's getting less money, less resources...what exactly is your option as the parent of this child? Take the handout and what, exactly?
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
The question is has the public school systems in these areas gotten better, worse or stagnant?
In April, the U.S. Department of Education released an analysis of the program in Washington, D.C., the nation’s only federally funded voucher system. The results were grim: Students who used vouchers earned markedly lower scores on math tests in their first year compared with those who applied but did not receive a voucher. Children in kindergarten through fifth grade also had lower reading scores. Secretary DeVos defended the program anyway, insisting that parents overwhelmingly support it. [LINK]
School vouchers essentially privatize PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
Most of the private schools charge more than the voucher provides.
This leaves poor families and children with special needs with ZERO EDUCATION.
-->
@3RU7AL
@ludofl3x
So then how would that give poorer parts of the country or state access to nominally equal educational options?
If their attendance rate is going down, why do you think that is?
Funding is still equal per child, regardless.
what exactly is your option as the parent of this child? Take the handout and what, exactly?
Some neighborhoods will still only have one option.
-->
@ludofl3x
Would the total pool for public education then be reduced by the number of kids who take the vouchers? If the answer is yes, it does sound like a way to defund public school while providing the more affluent with better options than the more vulnerable.
This has been the plan from day one.
The poor deserve nothing.
FREE-MARKET ALL THE WAY BABY!!
Would the total pool for public education then be reduced by the number of kids who take the vouchers? If the answer is yes, it does sound like a way to defund public school while providing the more affluent with better options than the more vulnerable.This has been the plan from day one.The poor deserve nothing.FREE-MARKET ALL THE WAY BABY!!
Do not associate me with such tomfoolery, please.
-->
@Snoopy
If their attendance rate is going down, why do you think that is?
Because the parents who prefer religious education and can afford the extra money take the voucher.
NOT necessarily because the private school "provides a better education".
Funding is still equal per child, regardless.
Equally lean for poor areas and equally fat for rich areas. Not what I normally call "equal".
-->
@Snoopy
This has been the plan from day one.The poor deserve nothing.FREE-MARKET ALL THE WAY BABY!!Do not associate me with this please.
Please explain how your proposal will be good for the poor and kids with special needs.