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@WyseGui
It matters too much for them to be honest with themselves or are incapable to see how irrational they are.Even a christian should be able to admit that.
Is it irrational to believe that no God or god(s) exist?
Posts
Total:
128
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@TheRealNihilist
I absolutely believe this now. Before yesterday maybe I would have given them the benefit of the doubt. But yea, you are right.
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@WyseGui
I wish people were consistent with their daily lives. This would be less of a problem because then they wouldn't be committing a special pleading fallacy. I can only hope they realise their inconsistency and fix it. Less theists less irrational beliefs.I absolutely believe this now. Before yesterday maybe I would have given them the benefit of the doubt. But yea, you are right.
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@Outplayz
To say the universe 'may' need some kind of builder isn't an illogical assumption to make
Yes it is Physical/energy and all occupied space eternally exists. End of story. Period with a capital P.
Spirit-1 { spirit-of-intent } as metaphysical-1 mind/intellec/concept and varying degrees of ego { * i * }
Spirit-2 Fermionic matter, bosonic force and any aggregate collection thereof, ex molecules, biologics, planets galaeyz
...occupied space { small s }....
Spirit-3, metaphysical-3 , positive shaped geodesic ( ) of Gravity ( ) aka mass-attraction,
...occupied Space { capital S }...
Spirit- 4,metaphysical-4, negative shaped geodesic )( of Dark Energy aka repulsive cosmological constant
.....occupied Space { capital S }......
Fourness:
1} four hexagonal planes of "Operating System of Universe and closet we will come to knowning God" ..R. B Fuller LINK
........perfect balance between 24 chords and 24 radii when contructed from four paper planes..........
2} four surface planes of tetrahedron define cubo-octahedron at zero-volume { black hole and event horizon } LINK
.........includes EMRadiation emitted from black hole ergo evaporation of black hole......
4} ..."He was finally convinced, Dr. Hawking wrote, when he recognized that the radiation from the black hole would have the same characteristic heat spectrum as heat, just as Dr. Bekenstein’s theory had implied."....LINK
3} Four kinds of twoness LINK
4} archimedes was first to discover that the foru bisecting planes of spherical cubo-octahedral were equal the surface of the spherical cubo-octahedron.
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Triangular stabilization. All structure is stabilized by triangulation otherwise it will not remain a structure and certainly no a safe structure.
Structure = triangulation.
Fermionic spirit is based on trinary sets of 3, 6,9 12, 18 -- 36
Same goes for bosonic spirit tho a little more complicated to grasp.
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@secularmerlin
Well stated.Do you need a reason to believe that universe creating pixies do not exist? Do you neither believe nor disbelieve in leprechauns? I have a hunch that your default position in most undetermined cases is skepticism and that the only thing you "need a reason to believe doesn't exist" is in the case of god(s).
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@Outplayz
Let's approach this tautologically.To say the universe 'may' need some kind of builder isn't an illogical assumption to make.
Either there is a "universe builder" or there is not.
If there is a "universe builder", what are the practical implications?
If there is not a "universe builder", what are the practical implications?
Since the practical implications are identical, we can conclude that the existence or non-existence of a "universe builder" is moot.
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@3RU7AL
Let's approach this tautologically.Either there is a "universe builder" or there is not.
Why must you start interesting questions. I'm suppose to be in the gym. Caught me on a day off, so i'll try to answer all of this.
If there is a "universe builder", what are the practical implications?
It really depends on the builder. But, i've followed this rabbit hole to one conclusion... if it is anything that involves me... then i'll have to deal with it.
If there is not a "universe builder", what are the practical implications?
Well, there are some spiritual conclusions you can make off this but the answer would be the same as above. If there is nothing... and you die, and are gone.. again, i'm the one that deals with it, but in that case... it's sorta a blessing since the implications of continuing to be me can be horrible. You turn to nothing... and life, or reality goes on without me. I've accepted this conclusion and it's quite peaceful, but boring as well. It's really simple when the conclusion is you being erased. Not much thought after that.
Since the practical implications are identical, we can conclude that the existence or non-existence of a "universe builder" is moot.
And this is where i absolutely agree. Both conclusions lead to one ultimate conclusion... i'm here and i have to deal with it. The difference with spiritually minded people (some at least) is that i like to imagine and strengthen myself for the "if" question. If i do continue being me, i'll have to deal with that too. So, i will imagine i am a god bc why would i imagine anything different. I wouldn't want to be weak, i wouldn't want to be a slave, i wouldn't want to be a servant, etc. If it's nothing, and there is no builder and just this reality... then, easy ending. If it is anything else... that builder better be powerful if he/she thinks it can face me. That's my mentality. But you are absolutely right in that this is all moot. Even in my belief... i am currently in paradise. This world is all i know i have, and what i have... so the builder can f* off and die for all i care... it's my experience here and now that matters.
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@Outplayz
And this is where i absolutely agree. Both conclusions lead to one ultimate conclusion... i'm here and i have to deal with it. The difference with spiritually minded people (some at least) is that i like to imagine and strengthen myself for the "if" question. If i do continue being me, i'll have to deal with that too. So, i will imagine i am a god bc why would i imagine anything different. I wouldn't want to be weak, i wouldn't want to be a slave, i wouldn't want to be a servant, etc. If it's nothing, and there is no builder and just this reality... then, easy ending. If it is anything else... that builder better be powerful if he/she thinks it can face me. That's my mentality. But you are absolutely right in that this is all moot. Even in my belief... i am currently in paradise. This world is all i know i have, and what i have... so the builder can f* off and die for all i care... it's my experience here and now that matters.
Well stated.
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@Outplayz
I know I've told you before, and you reject the label, but you totally sound like a satanist.
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@Mopac
I know I've told you before, and you reject the label, but you totally sound like a satanist.
I guess it depends on how you are looking at it... i talk about personal empowerment for the most part, and so do they. In those regards, you'll find similarities. So i agree with your "'sound' like a satanist" statement... i wouldn't agree if you said i am one (depending on definitions i guess). I don't know what you mean by satanist... all of the official ones i've read about i don't fully agree with. Btw, i met a friend that is Orthodox like you (i think)... learned some new stuff i found interesting like you guys tend to shun human hierarchies, and that you accept humans wrote the text which makes it vulnerable to fallibility (step towards the right direction in my book).
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@Outplayz
No, we are very much a church with a hierarchy. I mean that in the sense that we do have holy orders. That said, the church is not a secular government.
The way we approach scripture is not a step in the right direction, because we are the original church. Everyone else is making a step in the WRONG direction.
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@Mopac
Our conversation was about one of my beefs with religion which is bowing down to other humans. That's what he meant with the hierarchies... that orthodox don't do that. But who knows man... religion is a mess. Everyone i meet that say they are religious don't know what they really believe. He was more interested in what i believed once i started telling him... that's a telling sign to me anyways.No, we are very much a church with a hierarchy.
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@Outplayz
We have presbyters and bishops and stuff. They are still people. It is a good thing to respect their office and they work they do. They aren't really like overlords or anything. Not like kings or anything.
Glad you found a friend.
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@Mopac
We have presbyters and bishops and stuff. They are still people. It is a good thing to respect their office and they work they do. They aren't really like overlords or anything. Not like kings or anything.
I would respect them if they are cool people... not bc of the clothing they wear. I think it's ridiculous childish rubbish adults dress up in weird clothes and pretend they're something special. If you know human psychology... it is almost impossible they aren't getting that ego high off walking around in that clothing knowing how others perceive them.
Glad you found a friend.
More of an acquaintance. It's hard to earn my loyalty. I would die for my friends. He's not there yet, and probably won't be... he's my friends coworker. I'll probably just see him when they hang out. He just got out from the Marines and has too many other things to do. He's really cool though. I'd fight for him at this point.
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@Outplayz
Your assessment of what a presbyter is and why they wear the vestments they do is way off mark. But I don't expect you to honor them considering you are not orthodox.
The individuality of the presbyter has to some extent fall into the background while the role they assume is emphasized. That is one. reason they wear the vestments. It is not to puff them up
The presbyters where I go are very humble people, and really, to be in the position they are in, they would have to be. Here is an example of a prayer that a presbyter says quietly in the middle of liturgy...
No one bound by carnal desires and pleasures is worthy to approach, draw near, or minister to You, the King of Glory. For to serve You is great and awesome even for the heavenly powers. Yet, because of Your ineffable and immeasurable love for mankind, You impassibly and immutably became man. You, as the Master of all, became our high priest and delivered unto us the sacred service of this liturgical sacrifice without the shedding of blood. Indeed, Lord our God, You alone reign over the celestial and the terrestrial; borne aloft on the cherubic throne, Lord of the Seraphim and King of Israel, the only holy and resting among the holy ones. I now beseech You, Who alone are good and inclined to hear: Look down upon me, Your sinful and unprofitable servant, and cleanse my soul and heart of a wicked conscience; and enable me, by the power of Your Holy Spirit, clothed with the grace of the priesthood, to stand before Your holy Table and celebrate the Mystery of Your holy and pure Body and Your precious Blood. I come before You with my head bowed, and I implore You: Turn not Your face away from me, nor reject me from among Your children, but make me, Your sinful and unworthy servant, worthy to offer these gifts to You. For You are the One Who both offers and is offered, the One Who is received and is distributed, O Christ our God, and to You we offer up glory, with Your Father, Who is without beginning, and Your all-holy and good and life-creating Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
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@Mopac
You trust human beings way too much. I'm not trying to be mean bc i respect whatever you're into (that's your world)... but to me, no human being deserves this respect and trust until i know them. And trust me, i take you through a ride to get to know you and you know i. That's just the world i come from and if someone can't match it... i will never know them. I'm not changing who i am over garments. I already know we have different paradises if one can't get on my level. It's really that easy. You should really reflect on the implications of what "god is the ultimate reality" means. People like me also would (have to) exist... no ifs, ands, or buts.
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@Outplayz
Sounds very self centered.
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@Mopac
Sounds very self centered.
So i should just throw out my trust to everyone... right. Only those i can trust get my loyalty. Everyone else in the world starts with my kindness. I don't see the benefit of blindly giving people my loyalty. Call that self-centered, i'll call it foolish.
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@Outplayz
I am not saying to throw out your trust to everyone.
But I will say, as far as what you are talking about, children don't have much choice in these matters.
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@Mopac
Well... yeah. You should be conscious of the world around you. I'd save someone from a burning car regardless of how i feel about them bc kindness means i understand that they likely have someone that is loyal to them. Same logic applies with children. Start with kindness and let them earn loyalty. In the case of Children, especially if you're close to them, they are really good at earning loyalty quickly. It's older humans you should worry about.But I will say, as far as what you are talking about, children don't have much choice in these matters.
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@Mopac
One other thing that i may not be clear on... there are people you can be loyal to that you disagree with and possibly don't enjoy being around bc they have different interests. My main point is to at least know the person enough to understand your difference before you give them that trust. Children are open books, but a good example bc of that. It's easy being loyal to them bc you know who they are.
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@Outplayz
I mean that children have to give their trust. Their parents... teachers... baby sitters... whatever the case.may be.
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@Mopac
Yes, you're right. But i'm sure you understand how important it would be for the adult to be cautious with their trust.I mean that children have to give their trust. Their parents... teachers... baby sitters... whatever the case.may be.
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@Outplayz
Do you trust someone who is an expert in their field to be able to speak with knowledge about their field?
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@Mopac
It depends on the field. Most fields that are reality based, i tend to trust... but of course with healthy skepticism (i learn better when i play devil's advocate)... i've noticed experts like it when i do that bc they can see i'm trying to understand. It's also a good way to spot non-experts.Do you trust someone who is an expert in their field to be able to speak with knowledge about their field?
In regards to spirituality... it's a different story but it's really complex. I put it in three categories. The platform, who i am to that platform, and how it applies to this reality. Who i am to the platform no one knows better than i do. The platform and how it applies to this reality i'm willing to listen, but i'm also a some what expert in this field... so do i "trust" wouldn't be the right word. Open minded and curious, i think is better.
I don't know, default for me is rebel, but i wouldn't mess with a math teacher... this is a really complex question and very nuanced.
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@Outplayz
Well, an Orthodox Priest is certainly an expert on Orthodoxy.
But I think you should read this article.
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@Mopac
Well, an Orthodox Priest is certainly an expert on Orthodoxy.
Sure. I will always listen and learn, but i don't trust they know my soul... i mean, the parable of talents is something that i learned from the Bible that i took to heart and apply everyday. It's kinda spiritual how i found it too. I was really lost and just opened up that page... changed my life from that point on bc it was exactly what i needed to hear/read. Like i said, it's very complex... but in my quest of listening, i've also heard others.
I'll check out the link and let you know what i think. I'm done for tonight so i'll catch you later.
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@Mopac
Prelest just sounds like a scare tactic made up by humans in order to keep people from thinking for themselves. If you can't see how many man-made elements are in that word... i don't know what to tell you. It's actually a pretty evil word in my opinion.
Edit: But i forgot to mention... there were some good things. I'm paraphrasing... "Those that say their saints... the closer you are to god the more you see your imperfections." ... i liked that line, but i don't think it has much to do with the word.
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@Outplayz
I don't know where you get scare tactic out of prelest.
I also don't understand how you could think it is an evil word.
That line has everything to do with prelest, because the less delusional you are the more you are aware of your imperfections.
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@Mopac
because the less delusional you are the more you are aware of your imperfections.
Than teach me a little more about this word... i might be interpreting it incorrectly. Bc... i totally agree with this statement.
I don't know where you get scare tactic out of prelest.
Bc it sets you up as someone delusional if you don't see "god" how Orthodoxy see's god. It's very easy to manipulate people off such a word.
I also don't understand how you could think it is an evil word
I define evil as imprisonment of another human being in every degree and variation thereof. Torture, rape, murder... those are easy categories of imprisonment. So, if the above is true... that you are delusional unless you believe me... is a form of imprisonment. But this gets technical too... ask me questions if you'd like to explore it.