Paradise _ Then what?

Author: Stephen

Posts

Total: 146
#61
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Stephen
Luke 23:43 Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

What then?

When you put it this way, I can only picture a holy high five and Jesus saying "I told you playa, what is UUUUUUPPPPP! Welcome to paradise homes!"
Topic's author
#62
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@ludofl3x
I can only picture a holy high five and Jesus saying "I told you playa, what is UUUUUUPPPPP! Welcome to paradise homes!"

Ok, and then what?
#63
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Stephen
Probably foosball. 
#64
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,432
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
In other words, you don't know. Or you have an answer you want to indoctrinate with. 

My question was fair. To ask a question is not wrong. Unless you are priest or even a God - then of course - you don't have to answer. But even God answers questions put to him at times. 

But if you think rudeness is the way to run a post on a debate forum - where questions are obviously part of the means of debate, then run your petty little indoctrination class. 


Topic's author
#65
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
In other words, you don't know. 

I never once suggested I did know. But it is quite apparent that you do not know a question when it is asked and the reason questions are asked. I asked because I don't know, you FKN idiot.
But even God answers questions put to him at times. 
He's never answered one of mine, and like god,  neither have you.

And why ONLY "at times" and not all the time?

Next time you ask your god a question pose him this one. Why create anything at all in the FKN first place?

questions are obviously part of the means of debate
They are, indeed debates are usually started with a question as in this case.  But you believing that responding with a question of your own is somehow answering the primary question, then you are in the wrong place, you clown.

run your petty little indoctrination class. 
Oh FFS give over you clown. I wouldn't bother even trying to "indoctrinate"  anyone. I ask questions and give my  opinion and interpretations . Just as you do.
#66
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
But even God answers questions put to him at times. 
Got any examples?

Topic's author
#67
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@disgusted
--> @Tradesecret But even God answers questions put to him at times. 
Got any examples?
Of course he has, probably thousands of examples. But he will have absolutely ZERO evidence to back up his claims of god answering him.
#68
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,238
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@Stephen
I think this is supposed to be like asking "What's the point of happiness?" 

No. I would have asked - ' what is the point of happiness' if that is what I wanted to ask, Castin, my old mate.
My guess is that the point of paradise is happiness, and lack of want or pain.

As for what happens next once you get to heaven: aerobic spin class.

#69
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Castin
My guess is that the point of paradise is happiness, and lack of want or pain. 
But here is why i think this "then what" question is so novel and clearly shows how man-made religion is. The idea of paradise they made up was within their own community. Everyone agreed that eternal happiness in the presence of their god and lost family is heaven. So, that's what made it to their belief in text. Heaven is this...

However, they didn't consider everyone. I personally think a world that lacks the negatives is not heaven. I prefer heaven or paradise to be a reality were their is pain, suffering and struggle. Of course, happiness as well. But i prefer a reality i work for my happiness and most importantly, a reality that once i've experienced it enough... i can die and either start over as something else or transcend to an entire different reality. That is what i would consider to be paradise. 

No Christian, to date... has been able to answer this "then what" question bc they are under the impression everyone agrees that their definition of heaven is paradise... But that's simply not the case. This is one of the main points that started my path of seeing religion is man made. 

#70
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@Stephen
according to the bible, paradise is where all the souls go that believed on Jesus and repented and recieved him. note the thief on the cross next to jesus.  Paul made reference to the third heaven when his spirit heard things "Not lawful for man to utter." for they were spiritual.  Paradise is just a resting place.

The bible says what the heavens is. Psalms 8:3

There is a spiritual revealing of heaven and then there is the observable portion of it.  The spiritual cannot be seen through normal observation but requires a spiritual connection to understand it. A good example is the account of revelations, John was caught up by the spirit to heaven, doubtless his body remained on earth.

After that, it depends on how you got there. if you are a christian or an old testament saint and believed on him before the rapture then you will move from the 3rd heaven, paradise to where jesus and the throne of God is and be the bride of christ.  After the rapture there will come in the great crowd and the 144k people who made it through the tribulation AFTER the rapture, along with those who refused the mark of the beast and didn't worship the image and were beheaded.  Then there will come the 1k year reign of christ where the christians/saints of God will reign with him on earth for 1k years. then The judgement of all the souls in sheol, gehenna (hell) and those who weren't christians before and after the rapture. and then the ones rejected are sent to the lake of fire for refusing to believe in God.  then the new heavens and new earth will be made and the new jerusalem will come down from heaven to be on the earth (or above it, im not quite certain) and so shall we ever be with the Lord, an eternity of pleasure, peace, joy etc and no pain, sin etc.  And we will know God in a way we never could as flesh and blood.
Topic's author
#71
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Melcharaz
Paradise is just a resting place. 
So the answer to my question of " Paradise- what then? " is, according to you, "rest". 

And your evidence for this is?  



The bible says what the heavens is. Psalms 8:3

3 When I consider your heavens,
    the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars,
    which you have set in place,
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
    human beings that you care for them?
5 You have made them a little lower than the angels
    and crowned them[ with glory and honor.

No, this is someone admiring what he sees above him and wondering and attributing its existence to a god, without actual proof. 

I too  look at the "heavens" above me in awesome wonder. But just because it is there suspended above me as if by miracle and magic, and I still wonder in awe at this spectacular sight, is not evidence that it was god- created or that I go and live/ "rest" among the above mentioned at ps8:3.

So "rest"-  you say. Why and how long for? 

#72
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@Stephen
and what he sees above him is heaven.

the bible is my proof of paradise. Its more than just rest obviously, but its main feature is rest in righteousness and rest from sin. it is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Topic's author
#73
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Melcharaz
the bible is my proof of paradise.
No, the bible is words on paper. It is a case of believing or not believing. it depends totally on faith. it is not evidence. It is not proof.

It's more than just rest obviously,

it is not obvious to me.  So what more besides this "rest" at this stage ,is there?


but its main feature is rest in righteousness and rest from sin.

But our sins were already "wiped away" with the rather - cannibalistic - shedding of the blood of The Christ.  And do you actually have evidence that when we die that this is the "main feature"?




It is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
but didn't you say at post 71 above that being present with the lord comes AFTER this rest and not during?
yes here we are:


After that,  it depends on how you got there. if you are a christian or an old testament saint and believed on him before the rapture then you will move from the 3rd heaven, paradise to where jesus and the throne of God is and be the bride of christ. 

So it is not at all as  matter of fact as you make all this is it?


#74
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
the bible is my proof of paradise
The bible is only proof that men write books, end of


#75
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
rest from sin and being present with the Lord are one and the same, you can have no spiritual rest without the Lord being present, infact you cannot even have life without the Lord being present.  But we will take on his image and likeness.
The word is proof enough, if you understood what the word actually is, you might consider the implications when i say the bible is proof. Jesus Is the word of God. If God is true and not a liar, then everything the bible says which comes from God is truth.

revelations, daniel and parts of romans, ezekiel and zechariah make it clearer. 

My own testimony is greater to me. His word abides in me and his spirit as well. I am the Lords brother. not physically, but in works and spirit.  as is all those who are born again of the water and of the spirit that have a promise of eternal life.

make no mistake, Christs death gives us the ability to repent and not be bonded by sin. But sin abides in humans still and it will be no more when we reach that place. All sin is gone.
#76
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Melcharaz
The bible says what the heavens is. Psalms 8:3
I said in the other thread i have a serious reason not to believe your religion. Since you also commented here, i'll bring it up here. 

How do you explain that i think "heaven/paradise" as described by most Christian's and the Bible would be hell? This isn't a joke, i'm serious. I think paradise as described by the Bible would be hell. This doesn't mean you do, or anyone else does... i personally define paradise way, way... different than what the Bible gives. Why is that? 
#77
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
Paradise most fundamentally defined is being present with the Lord and free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.

Sin defines its self through disobedience to the law of God. In taking pleasure in the pain, disorder, betrayal, depression and physical pleasure more than the hope, love, brotherhood/sisterhood, joy etc that others experience.
#78
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
The bible is the claim, it's only proof that men write books.
Daniel 9 24-27 perhaps, well debunked.
What species will we be when all sin is gone?
#79
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
The true humans we once were. If you want to speak of true evolution, Humans can achieve it through christ. We become a new creature through him and his spirit.

The bible is written by holy men as they were moved by the spirit of God.    But more than that, I myself am a Witness for Christ and his salvation through his blood, his word and his spirit.
#80
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.
So paradise is just a synonym for nonexistent. I can go for that.

#81
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@disgusted
I cannot even fathom how you make sin equal to non existence or even related to it.   Haven't you ever had Joy or peace?
#82
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
We know for a fact that the story of A&E is fictional so we already are the humans we once were, though not as primitive or ignorant or savage as the superstitious authors of the bible and according as humans we must sin, so again I ask what species will we become that doesn't sin. Automatons perhaps.

The bible was written by ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages who claimed to speak for the god they invented.
#83
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
Do try to read what I write and get back to me, take your god glasses off and experience reality.
#84
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@disgusted
Sin is like a disease, i would think humanity cured without it! however you didn't answer my question.
#85
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
Read what I wrote and respond or run away.
#86
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@disgusted
I did read what you posted, from my understanding you seem to believe that life without sorrow and pain and etc would make us NOT human and you seem to think we would be stripped of will or understanding or something... But you still haven't answered my question on if you have experienced Joy or peace.
#87
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
Explain this tripe.

I cannot even fathom how you make sin equal to non existence or even related to it.
#88
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
Tripe? ill have to google that.  Im being honest. How can you misery equal to not existing? have you ever not existed?
#89
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Melcharaz
You seem to have a little conversation going on in your head and occasionally think that I'm a part of it.
What do you mean by the following and where do you get it from?

I cannot even fathom how you make sin equal to non existence or even related to it.

#90
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@disgusted
Simple, because you have never non existed, but you have sinned. Unless you didn't exist for a brief period of time and somehow were consciously able to describe, interpret and retain feeling/memory, I can't understand your sentence.