Actually, we can’t afford not to build the Wall

Author: TheDredPriateRoberts

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FaustianJustice
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The physical barrier is the ocean and desert.  As your article states, most migrants are presenting themselves at points of entry, trying to use asylum as an inroad.

I am not certain how a physical barrier deters using diplomatic negotations, or am I sure how the majority of illegal immigrants, those that over stay visas, are at all concerned about a wall.

If you think it was the democrats that 'blinked', I would suggest you review the various footages of Mexico paying for a wall, the PDF of Mexico stroking a check to pay for the wall, the government shut down that Trump proudly owned because he couldn't get a wall after 2 years of having majorities in the House and Senate, and the begging and pleading Trump asked of the Mexican president to hint he would pay for the wall.


Art of the Tantrum.
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@secularmerlin
I believe enough are coming illegally not to contribute and support but to take advantage of the system.  Right now it's superior in freedoms like speech and opportunity.  The criminal aliens are using the already thin resources that those under served citizens could have access, as the dept skyrockets, something has to change.  While keeping out and getting out as many illegals as possible won't impact the dept in any noticeable way it could help with school crowding, rent prices and other services though only in certain areas.  IF big if e-verify became standard, voter id laws and no tax to illegals, the probably would practically be solved.  The incentive to make it in or die needs to be removed, then only the legit would attempt it and do it legally.  When you consider the bigger picture of all those who don't or can't try to get in legally or illegally are still stuck in their country and in their situation, but it's been that way and no one really cares, they only care about the ones who try and or make it, hypocritical imo.  No one wants to leave their home, their country, everything they have ever known, what they really want is for it to get better.
teach a man to fish......a hand up instead of a hand out.  The Democrats give hand outs so people can't get up.  A few make it, a very few but they are pretty good at keep poor people poor so they can promise them free stuff and get their votes without ever fulfilling them.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
That sounds very like a conspiracy theory.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Is representative democracy worth preserving? If so in what way is it diminished when more people are included in the system? Isn't a larger group of voters more representative of the total populace? We are a nation of immigrants. Why should someone's original nationality matter to us? Making them citizens would also generate tax revenue. Imagine if instead of paying to keep someone out they were paying us to stay in.

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@FaustianJustice
neither side has dealt with or even indicated a desire to deal with the visa overstays etc, as I said it's the wall or nothing because I don't hear anyone offering any real and serious alternatives.  I'm not sure why this problem has been ignored for so long but there must be a reason and motives.  fmpov this boils down to doing something vs doing nothing.  There's just obstruction and no problem solving, typical government.
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@secularmerlin
sn't a larger group of voters more representative of the total populace? We are a nation of immigrants. Why should someone's original nationality matter to us?

not if they are non citizens, foreigners, how could it be?
we take in immigrants....legally and those who benefit the country, the brain drain has benefited the U.S. greatly and will continue to do so.  But that's illegals.  
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@disgusted
I don't 'need' to learn, I frankly just don't care about you being inconvenienced.  

For the record, you are comparing a border patrol that is never more than 100 miles or so from a) a populated metropolitan area and b) from a major road way.  How does that factor into your build costs, as well as deployment cost....

or did it factor in at all?

Right now you are putting a trooper roughly ever .1 mile.  Dare I ask how said trooper got there?  Or is this further information you haven't factored?

As has been sourced by the Dred pirate, wandering the desert is dangerous.  'Asylum' is the buzz word, and barring that, the vaaaaaast majority of illegal immigration comes through a port of entry.


This of course all is moot, considering over the past decade, immigrants traveling to the US from Mexico has been on a steady decline, no wall needed.

The best immigration policy would be one where the US actively attempts to work with those on our border rather than selling them guns, attempting to negotiate 'better deals', doesn't call their people thieves and rapists, doesn't intimate invasion under pretense of humanitarian aid in the same breath wondering about their oil, and engineering coups.  


Anecdotally, have you actually looked around at the border?  In some places, its no different than crossing the street in the US.  There is no border fence, there is no throng of neer-do-wells running into the US.  This issue is a total farce.  

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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I have often found that when the circumstance is "no problem", "no action" makes the best sense.


The short answer is always "spend money", but I would prefer to spend countless billions on people, people that track visas, maintain regular contact with trusted immigrants, more BP agents, more use of technology.

I am against a wall because of its environmental impact, and that it will more than likely require seizure of land via eminent domain in many cases.  If Trump stated he wanted to increase the BP budget by 10 billion, I would be just fine with that.  Its making an edifice that irks me.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Illegal is decided upon by consensus. If a law is counter to the stated goals of a nation (like liberty for all persons) then either the law must be changed or the stated goal must change. With liberty and justice to all (where all = exclusively our citizens). I turn away your poor your tired and your hungry. I am appalled by your huddled masses. Let them yearn for freedom someplace else. I don't know maybe I'm being overdramatic but I am in general not in favor of tribalism and accepting all humans equally is generally beneficial to societal wellbeing.
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@FaustianJustice
Would you be shocked if border patrol officials disagreed with every single point you just raised?
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@secularmerlin
If you are not in favor of tribalism, then you should discourage an immigration policy that does not mandate assimilation.
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@Greyparrot
I do not in the end have a (nontyranical) solution to tribalism. I just don't like it and so I will in general offer pushback against it.
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@FaustianJustice
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.  there are far more efficient ways a better bang for your buck if you will, but given the current, past and even future political climate these are the cards we have been dealt.  It's huge symbolism as well, someone is at least doing something even if it's not in the top 20 of things that would be more efficient.  Politically, this is probably the only thing Trump could actually do and possibly accomplish, the path of least resistance, from his pov perhaps.
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@secularmerlin
If a law is counter to the stated goals of a nation (like liberty for all persons) then either the law must be changed or the stated goal must change. 
both parties have had the opportunity to do that and yet, here we are, conspiracy or not, sure does seem to fit don't you think?  :)  Plenty of vids showing what both parties think about illegal i immigration which was very similar until Trump was elected.

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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I am under no special obligation to agree with any party on this issue.
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@secularmerlin
The point he was making is that both parties don't want any changes to the current immigration law because it helps to solidify the status quo where wealthy lobbyists pay off politicians for a steady supply of slave labor.

That's the major reason why Trump couldn't get funding for the wall or changes to Immigration law when he had party control of the Congress in 2016-2018. I'm not even sure that Trump knew how bad it was until his own party stabbed him in the back.


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@Greyparrot
The exploitation of humans is also undesirable to me. I am unaware how to stop the exploitation of humans but dividing them seems counter productive as empathy with someone has direct impact on your treatment of them.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
- Money aside, why do you support the wall? I've come to realize that it's rarely ever about money, though makes for a good case. 
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@FaustianJustice
I have no idea why this is addressed to me.
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@Yassine
Money aside, why do you support the wall? I've come to realize that it's rarely ever about money, though makes for a good case. 
Yeah in fact, the money issue isn't as important as the social degradation issue. Hispanics and Africans, as groups, cause lots of social issues. For example, they will block-up and vote against the interests of White People, especially if it furthers their own agendas (e.g. a welfare state). In regards to a White majority country, such as the U.S, this means that you have invaders attempting to undermine and leech from White people. The wall is designed to prevent some of these pests from entering White spaces.

Imagine if I were to enter Saudi Arabia and immediately call for abolishing of Hijab, shouting through a megaphone how bad Sharia is. The whole country would be up in arms. I personally don't want to wear such an annoying garment, but if I was going to go onto Muslim Arab soil, I would respect the culture and the people enough to wear it. Yet when Africans in Southern America call for the destruction of Dixxie statues, that's just fine. When Hispanics are photographed giving the finger to the Mount Rushmore statues (i.e. the Founding Fathers), there's no problem.

I believe you lived in France at one time. Assuming you went to Paris at one stage, do you remember the Africans harassing people of the streets in Paris with their cheap, overpriced merchandise? It makes it bloody unpleasant to walk down the street, and it badly injures social goodwill and faith.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
Yeah in fact, the money issue isn't as important as the social degradation issue. Hispanics and Africans, as groups, cause lots of social issues. For example, they will block-up and vote against the interests of White People, especially if it furthers their own agendas (e.g. a welfare state). In regards to a White majority country, such as the U.S, this means that you have invaders attempting to undermine and leech from White people. The wall is designed to prevent some of these pests from entering White spaces.
- Damn, what's up with "invaders" "pests"...?! You mean immigrants. So it's a question of constituency & voting potential? Don't illegals have no right to vote? From a big picture perspective, population is key. The US has been able to accumulate such a large population through immigration, even when fertility rates among its White population is below-replacement. People come & go, norms & customs change. Without recent immigration, the US's population may only be +200 million instead of the +300 millions it is today. If the US wishes to compete in the future economic stage it must maintain a large population. in a couple decades 3 other countries (namely, Indonesia, Pakistan & Nigeria) will surpass the US's current population. Without immigration, it's unlikely that the US would've been able to overwhelm the USSR or Japan as it did in the 90s, or compete with the EU. Besides, haven't we heard the same being said about the Irish when they came, & then the Italians as well.


Imagine if I were to enter Saudi Arabia and immediately call for abolishing of Hijab, shouting through a megaphone how bad Sharia is. The whole country would be up in arms. I personally don't want to wear such an annoying garment, but if I was going to go onto Muslim Arab soil, I would respect the culture and the people enough to wear it.
- This would've made more sense if you were talking about a European country, but North America is not a White native territory, virtually everybody there is an immigrant at some point. But again, this isn't an immigration issue at heart, it's a post-modern issue in the West. Despite having a 1/3rd of its population from immigrants, Saudi does not rule by democracy & does not have things like "freedom of speech".


Yet when Africans in Southern America call for the destruction of Dixxie statues, that's just fine. When Hispanics are photographed giving the finger to the Mount Rushmore statues (i.e. the Founding Fathers), there's no problem.
- Those were natives mistaken for Mexican immigrants. Regardless, your contention here touches on a much deeper issue, these are just symptoms. It's the whole system that the West has gotten itself into. But don't you think the African population in particular is a special case with a special history? Personally, I don't agree with either side. What the US needs (& Europe) is competent leadership & some serious reforms. Stopping immigration may have appease some White folks in the short term, but it's not gunna solve a damn thing. On the contrary, the brunt of an aging population will be too much to bear. Japan today has roughly the same GDP it had 25 years ago, a 1/3rd of its population is +60, & they can't get away from it. Ibn Khaldun comments on the stages of civilizations, the stage before the last, that of stagnation, in which the rulers being confident in the system of their predecessors maintain the same methods unable to reform or innovate. 


I believe you lived in France at one time. Assuming you went to Paris at one stage, do you remember the Africans harassing people of the streets in Paris with their cheap, overpriced merchandise? It makes it bloody unpleasant to walk down the street, and it badly injures social goodwill and faith.
- I live now in Turkey, but did live in Paris for 7 years, 10 minutes walk form the Eiffel Tour, yes. I actually attempted to sell stuff there myself as an artist to support myself, but I couldn't get permission from the municipality. & I travelled to another 17 countries, all of them with people selling cheap overpriced stuff. It's not a 'Paris' thing or an 'African' thing, it's a tourist thing. & I can tell you, it's way worse than Paris in some of these places. You simply should never buy stuff from tourist areas, with the exception of food. What does that have to do the wall?



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@Greyparrot
Soldiers disagree with policy of leaders.
Film at 11.

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@disgusted
Nor do I, apologies.
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@Yassine
Damn, what's up with "invaders" "pests"...?! You mean immigrants. 

Without recent immigration, the US's population may only be +200 million instead of the +300 millions it is today. If the US wishes to compete in the future economic stage it must maintain a large population. in a couple decades 3 other countries (namely, Indonesia, Pakistan & Nigeria) will surpass the US's current population. Without immigration, it's unlikely that the US would've been able to overwhelm the USSR or Japan as it did in the 90s, or compete with the EU.

Besides, haven't we heard the same being said about the Irish when they came, & then the Italians as well. 
If a swarm of locusts came and ate large sections of your crops, and then hung around to eat more by the day, would you call them anything nice? This is what Hispanics and Africans do to the U.S. economy -- both the average Hispanic (-$7,000 USD per annum) and African (-$10,000 USD per annum) are net drains on the economy (https://imgur.com/a/LxbroAl).

Thus, the U.S. would be financially better off without any Hispanics or Africans, even if it had 100 million shaved off from its total population.

I'm not interested in association fallacies. It's an economic fact that Hispanics and Africans are a net drain on the U.S. economy. If you want to say that the Irish or Italians were, then it's time to start sourcing your claims.

So it's a question of constituency & voting potential? Don't illegals have no right to vote?
Illegals cause other social issues, such decay in societal trust and charity. It's not hard to imagine why you wouldn't want a lower I.Q, unable to legally work, net economic loss criminal in your neighbourhood.

This would've made more sense if you were talking about a European country, but North America is not a White native territory, virtually everybody there is an immigrant at some point. 
Yeah that's nice. Now it's White majority country that Whites had to conquer. Why is the country, which is still owned by Whites (roughly 75% of the population), not allowed to cater to its people?

But again, this isn't an immigration issue at heart, it's a post-modern issue in the West. Despite having a 1/3rd of its population from immigrants, Saudi does not rule by democracy & does not have things like "freedom of speech".
Right so it still has a racial majority, and the majority of immigrants are Muslim and/or brown (https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/saudi-arabia-s-ethnic-groups-and-nationalities.html). Wow, such diverse immigration and population. Could you please tell me how many White people are immigrating and having their desire for democracy respected? How are Atheists treated in Saudi? What about vegans who don't want Hilal? Actually, you don't have to, because my source (something that you could start using, rather than saying random, unsupported things) shows that actually diverse people aren't immigrating to Saudi.

Those were natives mistaken for Mexican immigrants.
I enjoy how you source everything you say. Makes for convincing arguments.

Regardless, your contention here touches on a much deeper issue, these are just symptoms. It's the whole system that the West has gotten itself into...
Hispanic and African immigration into the U.S, legal or not, is objectively bad. That is the topic at hand. Fixing the issue you stated is a red herring because Hispanic and African immigration does not fix it.

It's not a 'Paris' thing or an 'African' thing, it's a tourist thing. & I can tell you, it's way worse than Paris in some of these places. You simply should never buy stuff from tourist areas, with the exception of food. What does that have to do the wall? 
Lol mate you've got no idea. Go to the Opera House and the Sydney Harbour Bridge. You won't get harassed by anyone. Meanwhile, in Paris, these African pests will approach you constantly. Rome is even worse.

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America can afford to shave a hundred million off its population as long as it continues to retain the best and the brightest the world has to offer. Economies aren't built on the backs of slave labor anymore. We can get robots to do most of the stuff for us. Most American children never earn a callous on their hands or file a tax return till their mid 20's. Plenty of room to trim the fat. Financing past government spending on the backs of future immigrants and projected native childbirths isn't a stable policy anyway, and will have to be dropped at some point. That's just a simple government overspending calculus that can be fixed with a pen and a phone.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
If a swarm of locusts came and ate large sections of your crops, and then hung around to eat more by the day, would you call them anything nice?
- We are talking about human beings Miss Cassie, not locusts. It's dangerous to be caught in the game of statistics & forget there is an actual person behind each number. What about the big picture thought?


This is what Hispanics and Africans do to the U.S. economy -- both the average Hispanic (-$7,000 USD per annum) and African (-$10,000 USD per annum) are net drains on the economy.
- I'm aware of this little calculation -a mathematically flawed one (substituting an irregular function with a step function). But I'm not here to dispute that, for lack of data otherwise. Assuming these estimates are adequate (which they probably are), they relate to *fiscal* balance by race, which has nothing to do with economy. If we omit the top 5% from the calculation {the top White 5% only is responsible for 1/3rd of all taxes...), Whites would then cost -$7K, Blacks -$13K, & Hispanics -$10K. No surprises there, the net wealth of the average White household is 10 times that of the average Black household. What do you expect..?!


Thus, the U.S. would be financially better off without any Hispanics or Africans, even if it had 100 million shaved off from its total population.
I'm not interested in association fallacies. It's an economic fact that Hispanics and Africans are a net drain on the U.S. economy.
- I know you are a bright person, God bless! But you shouldn't just take in whatever conservatives say. Budget relates to Taxes, economy (GDP) relates to Income (real GDP per capita). As you know, the average income of an African American is about $42K, which puts him at a higher income level than the average Italian or the average Kiwi, & on par with the average Korean. The average income of a Hispanic American is about $52K, which puts him at a similar level as the average German or Australian, at a much higher income than in most European countries or Canada or Japan... America is quite a rich country, just so we don't get lost in relative values. Shaving that 100 million from the total population would cost the US a *quarter* of its economy -roughly the economies of Italy & Spain & Australia combined (some of the richest countries in the world with +130 million people). Blacks may pay relatively less taxes that Whites for a lot of obvious reasons, but they are still huge consumers.


Illegals cause other social issues, such decay in societal trust and charity. It's not hard to imagine why you wouldn't want a lower I.Q, unable to legally work, net economic loss criminal in your neighbourhood.
- So, it's not really about the votes. IQ is relative... Whites have a lower IQ than Asians, they are doing fine ; decades ago they had lower IQ than current Blacks, they were still doing just fine. You don't have to be a genius to be a cashier or a garbageman... Should we get rid of all these 'lower' jobs then?


Yeah that's nice. Now it's White majority country that Whites had to conquer. Why is the country, which is still owned by Whites (roughly 75% of the population), not allowed to cater to its people?
- They didn't *have* to conquer it, they did anyways. But indeed, they are the majority among other minorities. That's why you have democracy, so you can cater to the majority & stomp the minorities. You are but one individual, you can not expect the majority (White or otherwise) to agree with you. The House, the Senate & the Presidency often are in the hands of White conservatives. What more do you want?


Right so it still has a racial majority
- No love lost for the Saudis, but less so than the US, 60% vs. 75%.


... and the majority of immigrants are Muslim and/or brown
- As are the majority of immigrants into the US Christian (some 75%). Brown is not a race...


Wow, such diverse immigration and population. Could you please tell me how many White people are immigrating and having their desire for democracy respected?
- Wut...?


How are Atheists treated in Saudi?
- They don't let you in if you don't cross a religious choice in your entry. Once you in, you can go on about your business. Saudi is the country of hypocrisies...


What about vegans who don't want Hilal?
- It's Halal. Halal refers to pure food, which is food acquired & prepared in a lawful way. Pork or impure meat/poultry (brutally killed or distressed or sick or disabled or chocked or dead animals, not slaughtered in the name of God) or alcohol (& any intoxicant) or anything acquired through unlawful means, such as theft or usury or exploitation...etc. Any healthy vegan food is Halal food.


Actually, you don't have to, because my source (something that you could start using, rather than saying random, unsupported things) shows that actually diverse people aren't immigrating to Saudi.
- What is it you're trying to say...? Point?


I enjoy how you source everything you say. Makes for convincing arguments.


Hispanic and African immigration into the U.S, legal or not, is objectively bad. That is the topic at hand. Fixing the issue you stated is a red herring because Hispanic and African immigration does not fix it.
- All numbers aside, why are you so against Africans & Hispanics? Aren't they people too (with quite the troubling history)? It's good to have intellectual discipline, of ideas & reason -like you do. But it's way more important to have spiritual discipline, of emotions & virtues. I'm telling you because I think of you as a friend.


Lol mate you've got no idea. Go to the Opera House and the Sydney Harbour Bridge. You won't get harassed by anyone. Meanwhile, in Paris, these African pests will approach you constantly. Rome is even worse.
- Some places are worse than others, indeed. 

Analgesic.Spectre
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We are talking about human beings Miss Cassie, not locusts. It's dangerous to be caught in the game of statistics & forget there is an actual person behind each number. What about the big picture thought?
Do you know what an analogy is?

I'm aware of this little calculation -a mathematically flawed one (substituting an irregular function with a step function). But I'm not here to dispute that, for lack of data otherwise. Assuming these estimates are adequate (which they probably are), they relate to *fiscal* balance by race, which has nothing to do with economy. If we omit the top 5% from the calculation {the top White 5% only is responsible for 1/3rd of all taxes...), Whites would then cost -$7K, Blacks -$13K, & Hispanics -$10K. No surprises there, the net wealth of the average White household is 10 times that of the average Black household. What do you expect..?!
I think the sole reason you mentioned the "mathematically flawed" point was to sound smart, not even because it's correct, and particularly since you didn't elaborate. But whatever.

I'm sorry, but having $800 Billion per annum of the U.S. budget drained by Hispanic and African residents, isn't the tiniest bit related to the economy? Am I meant to take you seriously as you attempt some irrelevant, little semantics game?

I expect you to not say that Hispanics and Africans are an economic boom on the U.S. economy, when clearly all they do is drain it.

Besides, where did you get your numbers from?

As you know, the average income of an African American is about $42K, which puts him at a higher income level than the average Italian or the average Kiwi, & on par with the average Korean. The average income of a Hispanic American is about $52K, which puts him at a similar level as the average German or Australian, at a much higher income than in most European countries or Canada or Japan
Assuming these numbers are correct (we don't know besides you don't cite anything), Hispanics and Africans become net losses when you consider the amount of taxes they pay, decent income or not (http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/05/11/fiscal-impact-of-whites-blacks-and-hispanics/).

America is quite a rich country, just so we don't get lost in relative values. Shaving that 100 million from the total population would cost the US a *quarter* of its economy -roughly the economies of Italy & Spain & Australia combined (some of the richest countries in the world with +130 million people). Blacks may pay relatively less taxes that Whites for a lot of obvious reasons, but they are still huge consumers.
I'm not saying that remove those people within the hour LOL. What is wrong with you?

Africans don't only "pay relatively less taxes that Whites", they pay less taxes to the point of being an economic drain.

So, it's not really about the votes. IQ is relative... Whites have a lower IQ than Asians, they are doing fine ; decades ago they had lower IQ than current Blacks, they were still doing just fine. You don't have to be a genius to be a cashier or a garbageman... Should we get rid of all these 'lower' jobs then?
It is really about votes. It's also about other things.

African genetics are just too bad to make a civilisation work to the same degree as White genetics. I.Q. is merely a facet of it. It's not about being a genius. The U.S. military doesn't allow people in with less than 81 I.Q. (I'm quoting Jordan Peterson). We have levels of I.Q. that are considered functionally retarded. Due to having lower average I.Q, Africans are more likely to be in these I.Q. brackets, and hence be nigh useless to society.

A White with half a standard deviation below in I.Q. can enter the military. An African American with half a standard deviation below in I.Q. cannot enter the military.

They didn't *have* to conquer it, they did anyways. But indeed, they are the majority among other minorities. That's why you have democracy, so you can cater to the majority & stomp the minorities. You are but one individual, you can not expect the majority (White or otherwise) to agree with you. The House, the Senate & the Presidency often are in the hands of White conservatives. What more do you want?
I can't expect my majority racial in-group to have self-interest? Wow.

No love lost for the Saudis, but less so than the US, 60% vs. 75%. As are the majority of immigrants into the US Christian (some 75%). Brown is not a race... Wut...? They don't let you in if you don't cross a religious choice in your entry. Once you in, you can go on about your business. Saudi is the country of hypocrisies...
What's your point in breaking down every sentence I make, making these minor quibbles, and basically ignoring the main point at hand: Saudi is not diverse, especially when compared to Western countries? Can you please address that point?


Yassine
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Do you know what an analogy is?
- It's not an insult. Or do you want me to call White people 'trash' or some denigrating word? No.


I think the sole reason you mentioned the "mathematically flawed" point was to sound smart, not even because it's correct, and particularly since you didn't elaborate. But whatever.
- No, I actually have a bachelor in mathematics. A solution like that will get you an F in maths. I can elaborate if you wish, though I already mentioned the core issue, that is an irregular function was substituted by a step function.


I'm sorry, but having $800 Billion per annum of the U.S. budget drained by Hispanic and African residents, isn't the tiniest bit related to the economy? Am I meant to take you seriously as you attempt some irrelevant, little semantics game?
- Why don't you explain to me how is this related to the economy? You have the floor. To reiterate what I said, if you omit the top earners in the US (i.e. the millionaires) from the tax revenue, White or Black or Hispanic balances will fall below zero, to -$7K & -$13K & -$10K respectively. My point here is that the US is so rich to the point where it can afford to spare the non-millionaires from paying the full budget to fulfill their government expenditure, that would otherwise result in higher taxes, as is the case in most European countries, which all have much higher tax rates than the US.


I expect you to not say that Hispanics and Africans are an economic boom on the U.S. economy, when clearly all they do is drain it.
- Pretty sure that's not all they do. Why is this hard to understand, economics 101. Look at it this way, if there were only Blacks in America, you'd end up with a situation similar to Spain, with roughly the same economy the same income & the same population. Spain's tax revenue is around $500B -slightly less than the tax revenue from the Black population-, about 1/3rd its GDP. This new Black America would be comparable to a European high income country. BUT, since America has a higher standard of living (50% higher than that of Spain), with all the infrastructure & privileges that come with that, the Black population in America enjoys that as well with an extra cost. In this case, the Black expenditure at presumably $875B would represent 47% this new Black America GDP, which is the same rate as France's. So you just need to raise taxes at rates similar to those in France & there shall be no deficit, or as you call it "drain" "loss" "pests'... But there is no need to, because the US can afford to not raise tax rates to any higher levels.


Besides, where did you get your numbers from?
- US Census Bureau, & the World Bank.


Assuming these numbers are correct (we don't know besides you don't cite anything), Hispanics and Africans become net losses when you consider the amount of taxes they pay, decent income or not.
- All this is meaningless. You wanna look at this from a racial perspective, which is pointless. You can look at it from a class perspective too, you'll end up with much more shocking results. The lower class will probably run you -$20K per capita, & the upper class +$150K... Therefore, the lower class is a drain on the economy we can do without. This is just as ridiculous.


I'm not saying that remove those people within the hour LOL. What is wrong with you?
Africans don't only "pay relatively less taxes that Whites", they pay less taxes to the point of being an economic drain.
- The same way the Spanish & the Germans are an economic drain on their economies? 


It is really about votes. It's also about other things.
African genetics are just too bad to make a civilisation work to the same degree as White genetics.
- Why? If this were true, we would have heard of White civilizations since ancient times, but we never heard of ancient France or ancient Germany. Most Whites, by their own statement, lived semi-barbaric lives until the high middle ages. With the Renaissance in Italy & the advent of trade, Europe experienced increasing urbanization, & therefore civilization, growing century after century to what it is today. & indeed, there was such a thing as African empires in the past as well, such as the Songhai Empire & the Mali Empire.


I.Q. is merely a facet of it. It's not about being a genius. The U.S. military doesn't allow people in with less than 81 I.Q. (I'm quoting Jordan Peterson). We have levels of I.Q. that are considered functionally retarded. Due to having lower average I.Q, Africans are more likely to be in these I.Q. brackets, and hence be nigh useless to society.
- This may have been true before the 60s, I can't find any source for this at all. & I very much doubt such claim... I read somewhere the average IQ of soldiers in Germany was around the 60. Regardless, if you know anything about IQ, you should know the average IQ of White people in the 1950s was 80 as well.


A White with half a standard deviation below in I.Q. can enter the military. An African American with half a standard deviation below in I.Q. cannot enter the military.
- Do you honestly believe that..? Do you honestly believe 40% to 50% of Blacks are so incapable?


I can't expect my majority racial in-group to have self-interest? Wow.
- The fact is that it already is the majority, an advantage no minority has. & yes, you can not expect Whites to aline their interests with yours. Your interests are not necessarily the interests of all Whites, & I reckon of most Whites. 


What's your point in breaking down every sentence I make, making these minor quibbles, and basically ignoring the main point at hand: Saudi is not diverse, especially when compared to Western countries?
- Compared to the US, yes. To most Western countries, nope. The US is exception, by design.


Can you please address that point?
- What exactly is "that point"? 
keithprosser
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@Analgesic.Spectre
Logically, if you're worried about IQ you should discrimate on the basis of a person's IQ not the average of their ethnic group.  You should dump anyone with low iq and keep anyone with high iq, regardless of their tribe.

Of course that might mean you lose out to


Analgesic.Spectre
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@Yassine
It's not an insult. Or do you want me to call White people 'trash' or some denigrating word? No.
It doesn't matter if you call us trash, because it isn't grounded in reality. My analogy was accurate; its insulting nature was incidental.

No, I actually have a bachelor in mathematics. A solution like that will get you an F in maths. I can elaborate if you wish, though I already mentioned the core issue, that is an irregular function was substituted by a step function.
Buddy, it's an average net deficit for racial groups. No one is impressed by you sledgehammering your bachelor degree maths into something so simple. Go and wank yourself off with your maths elsewhere.

Why don't you explain to me how is this related to the economy? You have the floor. To reiterate what I said ... [restating your original argument] ...  My point here is that the US is so rich to the point where it can afford to spare the non-millionaires from paying the full budget to fulfill their government expenditure, that would otherwise result in higher taxes, as is the case in most European countries, which all have much higher tax rates than the US.
You really are just wasting my time. You even use the term "economic" in the next paragraph, explaining that all of this is simple "economics 101" (I hope the irony isn't lost on people), and yet you're still harassing me over its usage here. Screw your head on before you waste my time with this stupid, worthless objection that even you implicitly don't agree with.

Your middle argument is dreadful. Even if the U.S. is rich enough to afford wasting money (a very debatable point), why the hell would you want to waste it anyway? Another stupid argument, and that's assuming your point that the U.S. is rich enough to have this be sustainable.

Your last argument is inductive and not necessarily true, in that you assume European countries have higher taxes because the economies are struggling. Did you ever consider it's because they provide more public services? Perhaps it's due to their genetic, political persuasions? There are so many damn variables, dude. You don't know and you are just guessing -- please stop that.

Pretty sure that's not all they do. Why is this hard to understand, economics 101. 
-_-

Look at it this way, if there were only Blacks in America, you'd end up with a situation similar to Spain, with roughly the same economy the same income & the same population
Um did you ever consider the fact that the average African American I.Q. is 85, in that there literally won't be enough 130 I.Q. African Americans to do harder jobs (neurology, brain surgery, particle physicist etc.)? Not to mention that the White genetic admixture would fade over time, and hence African I.Q. would regress towards a lower mean.

These populations are not equivalent.

So you just need to raise taxes at rates similar to those in France & there shall be no deficit, or as you call it "drain" "loss" "pests'
It's funny because France's budget deficit is almost identical to that of the African (and Muslim) net loss in France (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Q_bWBRrZo&t=410s). Not saying that France's budget deficit is purely because of Africans and/or Muslims, but it makes you think...

The link doesn't work, but I think my argument is strong enough anyway, and you're almost certainly telling the truth.

All this is meaningless. You wanna look at this from a racial perspective, which is pointless. [mathematics about class]  This is just as ridiculous.
Race is the primary way in which people construct self-identity. It's also the most important thing in terms of voting (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1448?page=5&post_number=110). Most people care far more about race than class.

The same way the Spanish & the Germans are an economic drain on their economies? 
They're a drain on their economies which serves themselves? Okay xD

Why? If this were true, we would have heard of White civilizations since ancient times, but we never heard of ancient France or ancient Germany... such as the Songhai Empire & the Mali Empire.
We wuz kingz.