do you also support democrats declaring a national emergency?

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#91
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Greyparrot
Well 70 more years of the status quo where border patrol doesn't get the tools they ask for is just wasting resources. Either give them the tools they need, or pull them out and teach them to code.
if it only saves one life, one child...oh wait we don't care about the brown or foreign ones, my bad, they can die of disease, dehydration, be trafficked etc just DON'T let them get shot, because that is where they draw the line.
#92
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Did you read the list of congresspeople wanting to abolish ice? The reasons they cite are because they deport people and seperate families.

When they discover that it's actually border patrol that does most of the family separations, detainment, and deportations....these congresspeople are going to have a really fun time dismantling the border patrol. It's clear what the Demoncrats want.

Open borders.
#93
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@Greyparrot
the people running the government don't even know what agency does what, yet they always want to create more, or in this case abolish one.  They only want enough let in to keep enough poor people to vote them into office with the empty and unrealistic promises of free everything.  When you look at many of these 'leader' net worth it makes one wonder (or should) how do so many become so wealthy from years of "public service"  Consider the ones smart enough to stay out of the spot light and rake in the cash, pretty much going unnoticed.  This is why the likes of Crazy Maxine and Pelosi are kept around, to keep the focus on those buffoons and not on others.  If I were a puppet master I couldn't ask for better ones than some of the high profile mouth pieces.

If the economy does so well, costs so low etc the promises of free stuff pale in comparison of freedom and less government intrusion and control of their lives.
Trump offered to provide people an opportunity to be self sufficient, independent and less government involvement in their lives.
Democrats offer free stuff which they could never provide and want to dictate what words we can use, whom we have to do business with and remove a lot of other choices.

the better off and more empowered citizens feel, the more they need the poor which must be imported to tilt the scale in their favor.
#94
3RU7AL
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
"MS-13 members enter the U.S. illegally, which proves gang violence isn't only a problem in Mexico, so again that is untrue."

this is a rant in your mind?  are you off your meds?  perhaps you need some if you think that is a rant.  Is that statement untrue, nope sure isn't.
This is just another broad brush attack that equates immigrants with super-scary-criminals.  It has already been established that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit a felony than native born U.S. citizens.  This is scare-mongering.  We all agree that super scary criminals are super scary.  You're the one who said we weren't talking about immigrants INSIDE the U.S. border.  Make up your mind.

Your attempts at dime-store psychoanalysis are rather amusing.  Do you often accuse people who substantively disagree with you of insanity?

Sounds like "foreigners are evil" and "build that wall".
do the voices in your head tell you that?  you somehow deduced that from me saying "Walls work that's why they are used in prisons, mansions and other places that people want protected."
This is your chance to set the record straight.  Please explain the "other facets" of your "multifaceted solution".  This should be easy for you.

if you'd like to discuss border solutions I'd be happy to do that in it's own thread and would probably be very interesting.
Feel free to jump ship at any point.  Perhaps you didn't realize that this is a debate website.
#95
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
But I generally don't rush to jump ship when someone asks me to explain something simple.
assumptions and accusation are not questions.
Please explain your "multifaceted" solution.  You keep claiming you have one, but you inexplicably refuse to expose it to the rest of us.
#96
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
It really doesn't matter with the slave-wage economic argument. All the jobs Americans won't do for slave wages are going to be done by robots, not illegal immigrants.
#97
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@3RU7AL

Feel free to jump ship at any point.  Perhaps you didn't realize that this is a debate website.
MS-13 gang isn't a broad brush, but rather specific, and we should stop more of them from coming in, which is staying on topic of border security, what we should do with the illegals already in the country is a different subject.  Proactive vs reactive.
I accuse people who can't follow along and make shit up, yeah, I do that.
you accused me and or made unfounded assumptions which I have plainly pointed out, that is not disagreement, not even a nice try, try harder.

perhaps you've forgotten what the topic is, and what hijacking a thread is?
#98
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
MS-13 gang isn't a broad brush
Yes it is.  When you harp on MS-13 you are attempting to scare xenophobic people into supporting a wall.

Criminals are criminals.  Nobody wants to allow criminals into their country.  We all agree on this.

MS-13 and the other criminal cartels are sophisticated and well funded.

Building a wall will not stop them.

They have military style weapons.

They can fly over, sail around, dig underneath, or cut a hole through it or demolish a section with explosives.

(IFF) you aren't trying to scare people by mentioning MS-13 (THEN) please explain why you mentioned them.

I'm all ears.
#99
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I accuse people who can't follow along and make shit up, yeah, I do that.
Your ad hominem attacks are vacuous.
#100
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
you accused me and or made unfounded assumptions which I have plainly pointed out, that is not disagreement, not even a nice try, try harder.
I paraphrased you and you said I mischaracterized your position.  No problem.  This is NORMAL CONVERSATION.

Then I asked you to clarify your position, perhaps highlight a few "facets" of your "multifaceted" solution.

Then you freaked out and piled on the ad hominems and threatened to abandon the conversation and accused me of thread-jacking.

WTF mate?

Can't you just answer a simple question?
#101
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@3RU7AL
Border patrol does NOT agree with you ...so stop with the "we agree on this" crap.

You don't want what the border patrol wants. That is perfectly clear.
#102
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
perhaps you've forgotten what the topic is, and what hijacking a thread is?
The OP is about a national emergency and a border wall.

The subject is, how should I put this... "multifaceted".

This isn't even your topic.

You have no authority.
#103
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@Greyparrot
Border patrol does NOT agree with you ...so stop with the "we agree on this" crap.
We all agree that super scary criminals are super scary.

Are you suggesting the "border patrol" does not agree with this obvious statement?
#104
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@3RU7AL
Are you suggesting Congress should provide border patrol what they want? Cause that's super scary too.
#105
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@Greyparrot
Are you suggesting Congress should provide border patrol what they want? Cause that's super scary too.
Are you suggesting that every government agency should get everything they want?

What about the department of veterans affairs?

What about the EPA?
#106
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@3RU7AL
And yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and call total BS on your claim that super scary criminal are super scary to everyone.


Let me enlighten you on a group of people who don't share your personal fear on just about anything, except maybe death from old age. That group would be called...Congress.

That group has every want and need taken care of and has security you could never hope to have. When any politician says they are personally afraid about something, you know they are lying. They can pretend to be afraid to fake empathy for their constituents, but they all know they would never be in any real personal danger from any of the policy decisions they make.

So yeah...total BS on that claim.
#107
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@3RU7AL
What about them? Either give them what they want or abolish them. In between is a waste of tax dollars.
#108
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@Greyparrot
What about them? Either give them what they want or abolish them. In between is a waste of tax dollars.
Perfecto.
#109
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@3RU7AL
you attribute motive to what I say constantly 

you are attempting to scare xenophobic people into supporting a wall.
Let's look at a military base, not sure if you've every bee on one, but they use barrier to funnel people to their entrances.  Does that mean it's 100% effective?  Of course not, but it doesn't necessarily have to be.  A physical barrier can make it more difficult and or make people find alternative ways, like you said fly, tunnels etc.  If you can reduce the amount of patrols and resources to patrol the wide open spaces or easy to cross, then you can focus more on all those other ways you described.
All the solutions I would like to see would involve pages and pages of writing, which i'm not really interested in doing.  The ideal ideas would be to make border security as efficient as possible, which is not limited to just a physical barrier.  Like most things it's all about cost/benefit, risk vs reward for the would be illegal.  Planes are expensive, especially if now they need more.  If you've every played any kind of military style miniatures game (warhammer 40k etc) you try to funnel the enemy where you want them to go.  Same basic idea.  An effective barrier can also work by slowing down, or making it difficult enough that patrols can get there to apprehend them.

#110
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
you attribute motive to what I say constantly 
(IFF) you aren't trying to scare people by mentioning MS-13 (THEN) please explain why you mentioned them.

I'm all ears.
#111
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@3RU7AL
(IFF) you aren't trying to scare people by mentioning MS-13 (THEN) please explain why you mentioned them.
..."Some worried that Trump’s fiery remarks may actually be hampering his administration’s efforts to dismantle the gang.

....“Going public is one thing,” said Michael Chertoff, who served as Homeland Security secretary under President George W. Bush. “But if it becomes a political issue and people start to feel it’s being exaggerated, it damages the credibility of what you’re trying to do.”"....

Trump and Trumpanzees exaggerate everything except the truth. 


#112
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@3RU7AL
You brought it up first.  You said the gang problem was just in Mexico etc, I mentioned it because that wasn't true. 
#113
Alec
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Why would the left want a national emergency?
#114
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
You brought it up first.  You said the gang problem was just in Mexico etc, I mentioned it because that wasn't true. 
Nice dodge.

I brought it up because it is being used as a scare-tactic.

You merely confirmed that you inexplicably believe that a wall will "stop them".
#115
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@3RU7AL
a wall, like any security measure or law is a deterrent, I can't possibly put it any more plainly.  People should be deterred from breaking laws if laws are to mean anything.
#116
mustardness
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D-Pirates---a wall, like any security measure or law is a deterrent, I can't possibly put it any more plainly.  People should be deterred from breaking laws if laws are to mean anything.
A wall, a barrier a fence whatever. Trump quote?

A wall is what rich want to keep out poor.  So the divide between rich and poor is a wall of deterrence.

1% rich is fine, as long it is not using most of Earths finite  resources for that which is not necessary for sufficient standard of living.

How many years into the future the do the haves really believe humanity can go forward with an ever growing divide between rich and poor?

Ecologically environmental crisis---Erratic Climate Change---   will bring this to resolution;

1} one way{ die off of sustatainable ecological environment } or another,

2}  human revolt against unfair and idiotic systems { brain//butt forward } that are not wholistically inclusive{mind//intellect forward }.