Trump's getting his wall it seems

Author: Polytheist-Witch

Posts

Total: 29
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
The Congress passed their budget with limited wall monies and limited wal type structures. Trump is/will declare a National Emergency allowing him to pull funds from various programs, mostly military to pay for what he wants. Seems a legal battle is going to put this at the Supreme Court. Should be interesting. 
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Republicans must not allow president Trump to subvert the constitution of the US for his own benefit and because he is unable to negotiate with Congress

Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Ramshutu
Is it subversion or is it in his authority? Bush did it. Trump may be able to as well. 
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10

when the Congress is bought and paid for by the slave labor traders in America colluding with Mexican coyotes, it's a national emergency. Lincoln would approve.
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Do you think that the President has the power to override the spending decisions of a democratically elected congress in order to achieve policy goals he tried and failed to negotiate?
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Ramshutu
He has the authority to declare a state of emergency and to move the military budget it seems. If he doesn't then the Court will stop him. That is how it works right? 
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
when the Congress is bought and paid for by the slave labor traders in America colluding with Mexican coyotes, it's a national emergency. Lincoln would approve.

Awesome, so even GP agrees this is a made up National Emergency!

Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
1.) He doesn’t have the constitutional power to declare an emergency when it is not an emergency.

2.) It is congress that raises and appropriates money for programs - declaring a national emergency to deliberately circumvent this process is not within the power.

3.) The courts will decide, or potentially it may not even go that far. Whether or not the courts are the entity that will make the ultimate decision does not change the fact that this is a blatant circumvention of presidential authority, and pretty much demonstrates the retarded hypocrisy of Republicans in general, who shit their pants in rage any time Obama signed an EO.


Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Ramshutu
Is border security not an emergency? Yes Congress gave the budget and he found places that he can take from to address the issue. Honestly I think he should be able to at least use the drug forfeiture money on border security. Since that is a point of entry for drugs. I don't remember ever taking a shit when Obama did anything. And EO is in the President's authority. So why get upset. 
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
As has been said before, a national emergency has been declared by various presidents several dozen times since the 1970s. All or most of these cases entailed unilateral action by the President, and most of the time they got away with it just fine. The fact that the amount comes up to 8 billion instead of 20/25 billion suggests that's the money his administration will be able to derive from various sources, meaning he will not require Congress to supply the money.

The Democrats act as though the reason they're opposed to the Wall is because it would (supposedly) be ineffective. If there was any truth to that, then they would work together with Republicans to draft legislation that provided full funding for measures that are effective towards the goal of drastically curbing the illegal flow of people into the United States. Instead, they've dragged their feet at every turn and finally agreed only to barebones funding (and only after a monthlong government shutdown), in a bill filled with poison pill provisions designed to kill whatever minimal level of effectiveness this might've otherwise had. The very air that Democrats breathe reeks of bad faith, and the Republicans have shown themselves little better. This emergency declaration was two years in the making, and I hope the SCOTUS doesn't do something so treasonous and detrimental to the interests of this country as to rule the measure unconstitutional.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
This is probably going to go to the SCOTUS to determine if the president can have a legitimate opinion on what constitutes an emergency. It actually doesn't look too bad against him considering how the travel ban ruling went. 

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Swagnarok
Just to be clear, it's both parties that are being heavily influenced by slave labor industries colluding with Mexican coyotes.

How do you fight corruption like that?
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
-->
@Greyparrot
It's probably impossible. Trump's the only real person in a position of power at this time who has a credible interest in stopping it. So here's to his success.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Swagnarok
Pretty sad that the Congress is going the way of the Roman Senate before the fall of Rome. Such is mankind to repeat the mistakes and tragedies of history.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Western Rome lasted, what, four hundred and fifty years after the Senate lost power?  

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@oromagi
Yeah, USA certainly won't end in 12 years or so.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Greyparrot
depends on whether Putin’s Trump gambit succeeds, I guess. If Trump is still POTUS 12 years from now I think we can safely say America is done-zo
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@oromagi
Da Comrade. Da.
Death23
Death23's avatar
Debates: 24
Posts: 618
3
4
7
Death23's avatar
Death23
3
4
7
-->
@Ramshutu
1.) He doesn’t have the constitutional power to declare an emergency when it is not an emergency.

2.) It is congress that raises and appropriates money for programs - declaring a national emergency to deliberately circumvent this process is not within the power.

3.) The courts will decide, or potentially it may not even go that far. Whether or not the courts are the entity that will make the ultimate decision does not change the fact that this is a blatant circumvention of presidential authority, and pretty much demonstrates the retarded hypocrisy of Republicans in general, who shit their pants in rage any time Obama signed an EO.


I would expect the legality of the whole thing to be heard quickly, likely before a DC district court judge, as has happened before with Trump's other legally questionable maneuvers.
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
-->
@oromagi
Trump won't even be alive in 12 years, much less a dictator (the man's like 240 pounds, 70 something years old, has arguably the most stressful job in the world, and I could go on). I hope you're just being facetious, because you've built up a lot of credibility for yourself as a voice of reason that could stand to go flying out the window with inane conspiracy theory talk like this.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Swagnarok
Pretty sure he wasn't being serious.
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
Ah. Okay.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Swagnarok
Do I seriously think Trump might still be President twelve years from now?  Well, Trump is nothing if not everlastingly surprising but no.  I wonder what odds Trump himself would give?  I really like the notion of credibility but I'm certain to disappoint you eventually.

Alec
Alec's avatar
Debates: 42
Posts: 2,472
5
7
11
Alec's avatar
Alec
5
7
11
-->
@oromagi
I doubt Trump will be president in 12 years.  I have heard that he might win in 2020 because of left wing strawmans.  Republicans shouldn't get so cocky.  Liberals thought Trump would lose and they were wrong.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Alec
I agree with everything you just said.
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Swagnarok
He no longer has ambition to build new hotels in America if he prevents cheap Mexican labour from entering the country.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@disgusted

Trump already said he wasn't in it for the money.

Trump is probably the only politician an American history to lose money by being elected.

RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
God, I tell you straight. Bushes and Trump make me proud to not be American. Vile beings and party, to the core.

306 days later

Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,675
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
the wall is built!