the catholic church has a magic hat, probably contradicted itself

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the church has to officially teach something for it to be considered unchangeable dogma. of course, the church teaches its teaching can and won't change, that it's never contradicted itself. what do the facts say?

you have the old catechism that says the death penalty can be used along with the consensus of theologians and at least unofficial pope teachings, but a new catechism that says otherwise. that's what the magic hat allows for cause who knows what's official. 

you have the idea that noncatholics can't be saved taught in definitive language. then you have new catechisms and at least unoffical teachings that they could be saved. the magic hat allows for the possibility that the old teaching is still true. it's a stretch to pretend the new teaching is recocilable with the old stuff. 

then limbo which was pretty offical but now it's not considered official, that unbaptized children go to hell. 

you have teachings that popes can unbind official teaching. i dont know how offical those teachings themselves are, but the magic hat says it's possible those are flawed teachings. 

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you have things like the church contradicting itself on whether the sun goes around the earth. i dont know how offical those teachings were though, the magic hat allows for that possibility. plus that is an issue of science, not faith and morals per the strict definition of infalliblity. 
#3
Mopac
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@linate
This is actually the primary heresy of the Roman "church", and the reason they are not orthodox.


That heresy is Papal Supremacy.


#4
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@Mopac
Does the sun revolve around the earth?
#5
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@disgusted
I heard that a mathematician once proposed to a girl by mathematically showing how the world revolved around her.


#6
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By the way, I protest the topic title, because Roman Papalism isn't really Catholicism.


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@Mopac
You don't have an answer that makes your god right? Or is it the IPSS who are wrong?  Does your bible contain any truth?
#8
Polytheist-Witch
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Can you list the Bible passages that say the Sun revolved around the Earth and that it wasn't just church teaching? 
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@Polytheist-Witch
@disgusted
The bible is not a scientific manual. The only people who believe so are protestant fundamentalists. That has never been what the church used the bible for.

That is not a concession that the bible or even the church teaches geocentrism. The Latin Papalists are not the church.


Does your bible contain any truth?

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

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keithprosser
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@Mopac
The bible is not a scientific manual.
when the bible was composed there was no such thing as science!    I think its obvious the bible was written to be taken as true - that is certainly more likely than it being written to be taken as false!

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@keithprosser
The point of the bible is to reveal God as being The Truth, and instruct on right relationship to The Truth. That is how The Church uses it.

But you are wrong, because there certainly was science in the ye old days of yore.


Science means "knowledge", and the ancients certainly had plenty of knowledge.


Knowledge =/= The Truth

But to think that knowledge is the same thing as The Truth... that might be gnosticism! It is an error.


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@Mopac
I didn't ask what the IPSS wrote. Please answer the question.
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@disgusted
You don't believe in answers. You're a nihilist.

Reality is whatever you can get away with.


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@Mopac
You have no answers, you only have indoctrination and platitudes, reality is what is and that frightens you.
Here try again
You don't have an answer that makes your god right? Or is it the IPSS who are wrong?  Does your bible contain any truth?
#15
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@disgusted
I don't know what the "ipss" is.

I know you are wrong and God is right.

The Truth is by definition right.

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@Mopac
You've been told often enough, are you stupid? The authors of your bible ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages. IPSS again.
Is there any truth in the bible, you've already admitted that it's claim that the sun orbits the earth is not true, it's claim that the earth is flat and covered by a solid dome is untrue. So I guess you can just blame the IPSS for these errors or are you blaming your god.
#17
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@disgusted
You say the bible makes these claims, but I don't believe it does.


I also don't believe you have conviction behind anything you say, you are clearly a nihilist.


I think you are a complete loser, so you calling me stupid carries no weight.
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@Mopac
You say the bible makes these claims, but I don't believe it does.
Read it honestly and get back to me

I also don't believe you have conviction behind anything you say, you are clearly a nihilist.
Your opinion of me is somewhat less important than an ant's opinion of me, but do continue to believe you are important, no one else will.

I think you are a complete loser, so you calling me stupid carries no weight.
Reading comprehension fail AGAIN, but you will be important when you become a real catholic. I didn't call you stupid.
#19
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@disgusted
Loser

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@Mopac
I accept your submission.
#21
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@disgusted
You don't accept anything, you are a nihilist.

You are full of shit.


And a complete loser.

Probably collect a crazy check.




#22
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@Mopac
Your argumentation is superlative. Huzzah!
#23
WisdomofAges
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The "ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH" is nothing more than the extension of the Ancient Roman Empire

Instead of a human CAESAR they invented a POPE and Comic Book Cardinals as a flock of FOOLS
to monitor the PROGRESS of global assimilation into the CHURCH CULT.....

Oh, right..the VATICAN has a WALL around it and guards to prevent entry.....Just like their JESUS had !

The Church is built on spectacle (how very Roman of them) and the use of FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE
to dumb down their hypnotized sheeple drones to OBEY the clowns in halloween Glory Gowns.... like an
ANT COLONY that OBEYS the QUEEN !   

The POPE functions like the QUEEN ANT of the hive...protected and out of view most of the time other than
moments of visibility to keep the HIVE together....and spread more ways to OBEY.....

The Catholic VAMPIRES invented the word "GOD" around 400 AD  long after their JESUS joke was martyred 
and elevated to GOD of GODS....well the Muslims didn't think so...they have their own "GOD"  invention
ALLAH....who came about after MUHAMMAD the illiterate tribal wandering whatever had a chat with
some "GOD" like Moses did 1000 years earlier...!   (beyond absurd)

So which GOD is GOD ?  #1 = the JEW GOD of MOSES ?  #2 = the JESUS GOD hoax of the Roman Church ?
#3..the ALLAH GOD of the Arabs...who showed up 600 years after the murdered by ROME for the JEWS...Jesus


3 GODS all neighbors..all at WAR....2 "GODS" invented by idiot low life tribal lunatics...and "1 GOD" the invention of
the Catholic Church Circus farce.....= Jesus..

Regardless of which "GOD" is chosen the other 2 "GOD" followers will CONDEMN YOU and order your execution
for HERESY !  
Everyone LOSES...literally !   they all murder each other into extinction over their "GOD" hoax invention !

What of the other 3 billion humans who could care less about the JEW-JESUS-ALLAH GODS ?   EASY !

just do like the NAZIS would...EXTERMINATE THEM....

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@WisdomofAges
Roman Papalism is a heresy of Orthodox Christianity.


What that means is that you are saying that pacifism is a murderous ideology because a large group of violent thugs calls themselves "the pascifists".
#25
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@Mopac
Orthodox HYPOCRISY....the same garbage the Roman Church and all the Christian con artists fabricate with countless other Church spins

So many Church themes...it's like a JESUSLAND...with countless divisions and ways to believe in this poor Jewish philosopher martyred into some
new "GOD" hoax by ROME....

JESUS ?  if this beaten-whipped-nailed to a cross young man showed up NOW...he would SPIT on all of these idiotic CHURCH Parasite Vampires
who use and abuse him as some pathetic scapegoat for their GAIN....and reduce them to ashes...

None of what you say and do has any true VALUE to a person's HEALTH and WELLBEING  it's all a TRAP for CULT worship...and some idiot
who wants to play "GOD" and prance around in some hyped up Halloween Glory Gown costume to feel empowered....what a JOKE !

The Middle East GODS are a HOAX....each ripped off another culture of the region long before their idiotic version even existed....THIEVES
and PETTY Con Artists....are the accurate description of the CHRISTIAN....

The JEW GOD ?  really ...so where the HELL is this GOD NOW ?   oh, he is retired...reduced to irrelevant...JESUS has taken his place ! 
Only JESUS matters..screw the JEWS....turn ISRAEL into a JESUSLAND theme park...

Hmmm...what about the ALLAH GOD ?

Oh, that "GOD" is an Arab invention....they are jealous of the JESUS...the only GOD that matters....they will all convert-confess-worship JESUS
and ALLAH will join the JEW GOD of Moses in Mythology Comic Books along with ZEUS and ODIN..

All those CON ARTIST LIAR JEW and ALLAH God  HOAX....who do not convert to JESUS...will be executed as HERETICS... simple !   

OK....So which CHURCH is the only CHURCH of JESUS out of hundreds of versions ?    and JESUS will agree ?   

Like JESUS has just arrived....and of the 7 billion humans on EARTH a fraction are of the ORTHO CHURCH farce...after 2000 years since he 
was beaten-whipped-and nailed to a cross...only the ORTHO CHURCH Parasite Vampires are the TRUE FOLLOWERS all 7 billion other humans
must be exterminated.......makes PERFECT SENSE !   

....JESUS will go to the United nations and explain that all must be exterminated for not accepting the ORTHO CHURCH...

....how about an ORTHO CHURCH ENEMA......what a disgrace these CHRISTIAN and ALLAH GOD Parasite Vampires are....
The unprecedented DEATH and DESTRUCTION these hypnotized human predators have caused for thousands of years...

A TRUE HELL ON EARTH....SOLUTION...reduce the Middle East JEW-JESUS-ALLAH GODS to Comic Book characters 
in children's fantasy stories...for entertainment only...better yet ...just flush it all down a TOILET and forget about all of it
like they have done to and with all the other GODS-DIVINE ENTITIES- invented by humans over the last 8000 years...

That is the TRUE MEANING of "END of DAYS" when humanity finally gets rid of the middle East JEW-JESUS-ALLAH God
Comic Book characters and leaves them in the abyss of forgotten stories....







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@WisdomofAges
Yes, you have made clear what your opinion is.


You take the easy way out by being unreasonable.

#27
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the church has to officially teach something for it to be considered unchangeable dogma. of course, the church teaches its teaching can and won't change, that it's never contradicted itself. what do the facts say?
It would appear that the facts agree with the Catholic Church.

you have the old catechism that says the death penalty can be used along with the consensus of theologians and at least unofficial pope teachings, but a new catechism that says otherwise. that's what the magic hat allows for cause who knows what's official. 
The Catechism is in of itself not an infallible document.  It is meant to summarize Catholic teaching.  However, if the Pope demands his personal opinion on a topic he included in the Catechism it does not change the teaching of the Church.  All it does for is possibly introduce error into a fallible document.

you have the idea that noncatholics can't be saved taught in definitive language. then you have new catechisms and at least unoffical teachings that they could be saved. the magic hat allows for the possibility that the old teaching is still true. it's a stretch to pretend the new teaching is recocilable with the old stuff. 

then limbo which was pretty offical but now it's not considered official, that unbaptized children go to hell. 
Feeneyism was not Catholic doctrine.

Limbo was a theological construct.  It may have been assumed to practically be doctrine because of its widespread communication.  It is not doctrine and there is no official teaching on the fate of the unborn.

you have teachings that popes can unbind official teaching. i dont know how offical those teachings themselves are, but the magic hat says it's possible those are flawed teachings. 
No pope can change the teachings of the Church.  All they can do is clarify the unchanging teachings.
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@Mopac
Is Papal supremacy the primary heresy of the Catholic Church?  Or is rejection of Papal Supremacy the primary heresy of the Orthodox Church?
#29
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@DeusVult
you say feeneyism was never taught. just look at the text. they use clear language like "we define" and go on to use specific language condemning noncatholics to hell. then you have the fact that that's what catholic actually thought for the longest time, that noncatholics are condemned. 

on the catechism point. the things i'm mentioning, like those with original sin go to hell, was defined by councils. it's far fetched to think they knew they had to be specific and say things like "this is defined" or "this is infallible" etc. they taught it as dogma and expected it to be the teaching officially, at least that's the most straightforward way of looking at it. 
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@n8nrgmi
So what is required to enter heaven?  To die in a state of grace.

Now is it possible for someone to die in a state of grace and not be a Catholic?  I’ll give a couple of possible examples of where it is possible.

1) The person is a Catechist and has a firm intention of becoming Catholic, but was not yet able to receive the sacrament of baptism.  

2) Someone who was invincibly ignorant of the Catholic faith, lived a life without mortal sin and desired the God (s)he did not know.

Those are two cases that the Catholic Church recognizes where someone who is not Catholic may be granted the beatific vision.

The purpose of the Catholic Church is to transmit the faith from generation to generation and to help the faithful to live in a state of grace by making the sacraments available to them.