Middle East "GODS"= best HOAX ever !

Author: WisdomofAges

Posts

Total: 185
Topic's author
#1
WisdomofAges
WisdomofAges's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 354
0
1
3
WisdomofAges's avatar
WisdomofAges
0
1
3
The child is restless...it's Christmas Eve and.......Santa is coming !  bringing gifts and candy !

Then as it gets later in the evening  the child begins to doze off ...eventually retiring for the evening in 
anticipation of the new day to come .......and it comes !  

and under the tree are GIFTS !   

the same construct is used for the JESUS HOAX....= waste a lifetime praying, begging like a dog for salvation.
....YOU are a "born Sinner" a criminal ...the fact that you exist is a disgrace....you must repent-confess-surrender
your mind and life to servitude.....ask not...think not..OBEY..and do as you are told....condemn all who do not accept
your "GOD" they are the enemy.....and must be punished.....

Go now to ISRAEL and demand that all convert and OBEY the CHURCH......the Church is "GOD"   
the JEWS and MUSLIMS must be condemned....they follow a false "GOD" go save them !   
#2
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
None of that is actually what the church teaches.

And fyi, St Nicholas, was a real person. Not really similar to Santa Claus, though he reportedly did give poor children gifts.




#3
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
Highly venerated saint in Orthodoxy, btw
Topic's author
#4
WisdomofAges
WisdomofAges's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 354
0
1
3
WisdomofAges's avatar
WisdomofAges
0
1
3
"GOD" a human invention....used to HYPNOTIZE and abuse other humans into slavery and servitude of
some imbecile who plays the character...

these pathetic creatures are mentally deranged and use their "GOD" like a toy to punish all who do not
accept the absurdity of their stories....like a young child attempting to convince everyone that Santa
Claus is real....the child does not have the ability to think and reason critically...mommy and daddy 
say santa is REAL ! ....and they can be trusted ?   

then at some point in time the child no longer BELIEVES the story.....and learns that just because others
BELIEVE in something it does not mean they have to.....

....This is the TRUTH of these horrifically OBSOLETE and IDIOTIC "GOD" inventions..they are like the 
santa Clause construct .....they are nothing more than a metaphor .......to be used as an example for 'learning.

But the REAL TRUTH is these "GOD" constructs are used as tools of DECEPTION...used to HYPNOTIZE
weak minded humans (like the child) into servitude and slavery of the Parasite Vampire that got between 
their ears...and planted a CANCER of the neural network....ultimately eating away the curiosity and desire
to explore and discover with an open mind ....

Reduced to a thoughtless and brainwashed slave drone...the child/adult is now under the spell of some
Parasite Vampire that sucks the energy from their being... leaving them as an empty shell in human form... 

paralyzed and convinced they are hopeless born sinning criminals....who must be punished and suffer
for even existing....both in life and death....

Middle east "GOD" Jew-Jesus-Allah...the greatest disgrace ever invented by humans for power and control
#5
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@WisdomofAges
Slavery and servitude to who?

How does the church "punish people"? 

Power and control?


None of this is applicable to Orthodox Christianity.


Your conception of what my faith is about is very skewed and I don't see how it aligns with reality.




Topic's author
#6
WisdomofAges
WisdomofAges's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 354
0
1
3
WisdomofAges's avatar
WisdomofAges
0
1
3
-->
@Mopac
Go now to the VATICAN....surrounded by a WALL !   did your JESUS put up a WALL 
to prevent those who are curious to enter ?   

and what of the 1400 years of the DARK AGES ?  where the parasite vampires that
invented the Jesus HOAX went on ramages of DEATH and DESTRUCTION in the
name of their "GOD" ?   

You play this "oh none of that ever happened with my Church garbage"  all of these
idiotic JESUS church spins are nothing more than clever facades for hard core mind
and life destroying CULTS....

All the hypnotized Christian sheeple drone is capable of is arguing to defend the
atrocities committed against humanity  using this idiotic boy JESUS farce as a 
scapegoat tool....

Health and wellness are never discussed and emphasized...everything is always
weaved into some Church CULT Dogma or twisted bible verse VOMIT as an
excuse to avoid HEALTH....these Christians are obsessed with FEAR-INTIMIDATION-
and VIOLENCE to defend their BRAINWASHED minds....

The far East India-Tibet-Chinese are so far ahead of the Middle East Terrorists that 
use their fabricated "GOD" garbage (mostly stolen stories) as a means for power
and control....The Jew-Jesus-Allah constructs are designed for assimilation and slavery

Obviously you are a slave and servant to the brainwashing....a prisoner you are to the
horrifically obsolete dogma and VOMIT these Parasite Vampire Church CULTS shove
between your ears....

#7
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@WisdomofAges
The Vatican is Roman Papalism. They are not Orthodox. The Bishop of Rome was given the boot for arrogantly presuming supremacy over the church and corrupting the faith. 

1400 years of dark ages is a myth of protestantism because they don't remember anything before the reformation. Protestant/evangelical/reform/anarchy "christianity" is not Orthodox Christianity.


You are certainly not talking Orthodox Christianity, which is actually real Christianity. 

Any form of coercion is very much not Orthodox. Free will is a gift from God that we hold in reverence.

#8
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@WisdomofAges
Why did you change your name? I liked vi_spex better.
#9
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@WisdomofAges
"GOD" a human invention....used to HYPNOTIZE and abuse other humans into slavery and servitude of
some imbecile who plays the character...

Sounds like a crappy situation for you. Good think not everyone has one like that. 
#10
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@WisdomofAges
The child is restless...it's Christmas Eve and.......Santa is coming !  bringing gifts and
candy !

Then as it gets later in the evening  the child begins to doze off ...eventually retiring for the evening in 
anticipation of the new day to come .......and it comes !  

and under the tree are GIFTS !   

the same construct is used for the JESUS HOAX....= waste a lifetime praying, begging like a dog for salvation.
....YOU are a "born Sinner" a criminal ...the fact that you exist is a disgrace....you must repent-confess-surrender
your mind and life to servitude.....ask not...think not..OBEY..and do as you are told....condemn all who do not accept
your "GOD" they are the enemy.....and must be punished.....

And what is your alternative - is it Judaism, Islam, some other gods, or a secular materialistic worldview?

Let's see how reasonable it is. List your poison and in the meantime, we can discuss why believing in Jesus is not unreasonable. 

Go now to ISRAEL and demand that all convert and OBEY the CHURCH......the Church is "GOD"   
the JEWS and MUSLIMS must be condemned....they follow a false "GOD" go save them !   
Christianity is based on the Jewish Scriptures, or what Christians call the OT. It is based on the fulfillment of everything promised the Jews. 


#11
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@WisdomofAges
"GOD" a human invention....used to HYPNOTIZE and abuse other humans into slavery and servitude of
some imbecile who plays the character...
I love it, the seething anger and from a misunderstanding of the biblical God and the slavery or servitude as opposed to that of other ANE (Ancient Near East) cultures. 


these pathetic creatures are mentally deranged and use their "GOD" like a toy to punish all who do not
accept the absurdity of their stories....like a young child attempting to convince everyone that Santa
Claus is real....the child does not have the ability to think and reason critically...mommy and daddy 
say santa is REAL ! ....and they can be trusted ? 
As opposed to what - atheism? So far the 20th-century has been the bloodiest on human record. Look at the ideologies of those who perpetrated the worst inhumanity during that century. They were secular humanists or those who did not live according to a Christian standard. 

When you boil it down to basics there are only a few positions to come from regarding origins,
1. We are created,
2. We are here by accident, or,
3. The world is an illusion, or for the desperate,
4. Who cares.
 
I believe it boils down to two - God or chance. 

Now, let's look at how reasonable us thinking Chance is why we are here. Can chance reason? Does it have intention? How does it sustain anything? Why should something happen, and continually happen, and why do we find meaning and reason for things in a chance universe? Why does every human being have some idea of morality and how do you make sense of morality from a material or secular humanist position?


then at some point in time the child no longer BELIEVES the story.....and learns that just because others
BELIEVE in something it does not mean they have to.....

....This is the TRUTH of these horrifically OBSOLETE and IDIOTIC "GOD" inventions..they are like the 
santa Clause construct .....they are nothing more than a metaphor .......to be used as an example for 'learning.
And what is the point of atheism? 

What does it matter that you exist and what will it matter when you are dead? What hope do you have to offer someone dying of cancer? Why should I be "good" as you define "good?" Why is your view of right and wrong actually "right" or is it? Who are you that I should believe your subjective, relative finite mindset and what you have to offer?


But the REAL TRUTH is these "GOD" constructs are used as tools of DECEPTION...used to HYPNOTIZE
weak minded humans (like the child) into servitude and slavery of the Parasite Vampire that got between 
their ears...and planted a CANCER of the neural network....ultimately eating away the curiosity and desire
to explore and discover with an open mind ....
There is only one God. I am with you in your idea of the rest. But why is it you who have the REAL TRUTH? Who are you that you know it, in and of your own being or have you elevated yourself, a human being, to the place of God determining the REAL TRUTH?

How open is your mind? How molded to a particular worldview is it? 


Reduced to a thoughtless and brainwashed slave drone...the child/adult is now under the spell of some
Parasite Vampire that sucks the energy from their being... leaving them as an empty shell in human form... 

paralyzed and convinced they are hopeless born sinning criminals....who must be punished and suffer
for even existing....both in life and death....

Middle east "GOD" Jew-Jesus-Allah...the greatest disgrace ever invented by humans for power and control

Not a shred of evidence, just your opinion. 

Now you have mine!
#12
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@PGA2.0
As opposed to what - atheism? So far the 20th-century has been the bloodiest on human record. Look at the ideologies of those who perpetrated the worst inhumanity during that century. They were secular humanists or those who did not live according to a Christian standard. 

You seem to have forgotten your mythical flood.

#13
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@disgusted
As opposed to what - atheism? So far the 20th-century has been the bloodiest on human record. Look at the ideologies of those who perpetrated the worst inhumanity during that century. They were secular humanists or those who did not live according to a Christian standard. 

You seem to have forgotten your mythical flood.

The Flood was not mythical. 
#14
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@PGA2.0
Then your god is a greater murderer than anyone. Thanks for that.
#15
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,616
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@WisdomofAges
the same construct is used for the JESUS HOAX

Can you actually prove and explain this "JESUS HOAX".
#16
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@disgusted
Then your god is a greater murderer than anyone. Thanks for that.
How is punishing the extreme wickedness described an injustice?

#17
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@PGA2.0
How is punishing the extreme wickedness described an injustice?

The story by necessity includes him drowning countless babies (I presume you're an anti-choice guy, so aren't they all innocent lives?)m and since animals can't murder (as you are fond of pointing out), then it stands to reason no single animal is wicked, yet this all powerful god, who theoretically could just have 'deleted' the bad actors, chose wanton destruction. I don't know how you see it another way. I mean provided I take your meaning correctly and you somehow believe a global flood covered the entire earth for 40 days. 
#18
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@ludofl3x
How is punishing the extreme wickedness described an injustice?

The story by necessity includes him drowning countless babies (I presume you're an anti-choice guy, so aren't they all innocent lives?)m and since animals can't murder (as you are fond of pointing out), then it stands to reason no single animal is wicked, yet this all powerful god, who theoretically could just have 'deleted' the bad actors, chose wanton destruction. I don't know how you see it another way. I mean provided I take your meaning correctly and you somehow believe a global flood covered the entire earth for 40 days. 

Yes, I'm anti-abortion and pro-choice. 

God never takes an innocent human life without restoring it, or else He would not be just. And I can back up my claims with biblical text too. 

The difference between God and you or me is that if we take an innocent life we can't restore it. God can. All life is His to give and take. You only have a brief time span on earth.

We do not have the right, under God, to take innocent life - Thou shalt not kill.

How it is wicked to take a life and restore it to a better place?

How do you get billions of fossils all over the earth? How does fossilization take place? If animals die on a plain do they fossilize? Usually catastrophic conditions like mudslides of animals encased in mud and pressurized produce fossils. What catastrophic conditions do you ascribe to fossilization?
#19
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@PGA2.0
Now, let's look at how reasonable us thinking Chance is why we are here. Can chance reason? Does it have intention? How does it sustain anything? Why should something happen, and continually happen, and why do we find meaning and reason for things in a chance universe? Why does every human being have some idea of morality and how do you make sense of morality from a material or secular humanist position? What does it matter that you exist and what will it matter when you are dead? What hope do you have to offer someone dying of cancer? Why should I be "good" as you define "good?" Why is your view of right and wrong actually "right" or is it? Who are you that I should believe your subjective, relative finite mindset and what you have to offer?
Chance is not an agent. It's math. Also this is a red herring question, no one says chance can reason nor does our ability to reason have anything to do with the truth value of a universe or existence by chance. It's not a why, either, it's a how. Chance doesn't sustain anything, but again no one says that either. The laws of nature are wholly sufficient to sustain the universe, adding something else that's not demonstrable into it demands an explanation.Morality has been answered repeatedly, it's evolutionarily hard wired into any social creature. The fact that it is so, a product of human evolution, means that it's fallible (if in fact it were authored by an infallible being, no one would ever disagree on matters of morality because it'd be codified and clearly so). It doesn't matter that I exist to anyone who isn't directly in my circle of people, and it won't matter when I'm dead to anyone outside it. 

This is where you get really aggravating. What hope do I have to offer someone dying of cancer? None, and if you were honest, you don't have any to offer either. The problem is people like you who THINK there's some magic afterworld are the ones who say things like stem cell research is immoral, genetic therapy is an affront, etc. etc. for no other reason than it continues to shrink your god's power and cedes it to people like me. People who say "Wow, it sucks that you're dying of cancer, but I'm going to do research until I figure out a way to make it slower. Or make it better. Or eliminate it. Or research pain management drugs that will let you feel less as it ravages through you." YOU would tell these people "God gave you that cancer. You should thank him, and hope you're righteous enough that after he devastates your family, you get to go to heaven to be with the guy who gave you cancer. In fact he didn't just give it to you, you know all those kids with it? Yeah, them too. But thank him on their behalf when you get there, and tell him to forgive the parents who are mad at him for killing their baby.OH, tremendous pain you're in right? That stinks. Why take the medication? Just pray and it'll go away. And if it doesn't, t's just Jesus testing your faith, so if you waiver, get ready to burn in hell forever unless you decide right at the last second to kiss up to him again, then you're fine. Probably." That Christians think they have the market on comforting people who are in their last extremity is fucking offensive. Lying to someone about a party they're about to die and go to? Reprehensible. Also, do any Christian comfort folks ever tell the dying "You might be on your way to hell for all I know, maybe nothing you can even do about it?" Are all dying cancer patients going to heaven? Give me a break you pompous ass. 

You should be good because you're a good person. Not because you think you're getting a reward. Or that you will avoid being punished. That would make you a person of integrity. And there are far more of those than there are bloodthirsty atheists waiting to take over your life, you coward. 


#20
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
If God is The Ultimate Reality, which God certainly is, you criticizing God for what God does amounts to little more than pointing at the sky and yelling "I don't like the way things are, I would rather it be this way, I replace reality with my own!"

The problem of evil and all its variations fundamentally stem from a superstitious understanding of what God is.


#21
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@PGA2.0
od never takes an innocent human life without restoring it, or else He would not be just. And I can back up my claims with biblical text too. 

The difference between God and you or me is that if we take an innocent life we can't restore it. God can. All life is His to give and take. You only have a brief time span on earth. 

We do not have the right, under God, to take innocent life - Thou shalt not kill.

How it is wicked to take a life and restore it to a better place?

How do you get billions of fossils all over the earth? How does fossilization take place? If animals die on a plain do they fossilize? Usually catastrophic conditions like mudslides of animals encased in mud and pressurized produce fossils. What catastrophic conditions do you ascribe to fossilization?
There was no better place when the flood happened, right? The afterlife is a new testament concern. 

So it's never right to kill? Let's play a game then. You are a man with a gun. You notice a child walking into a maternity ward. You see this child is wearing a suicide bomb, and a crucifix necklace, so he might be Christian. You can kill him and save others. Do you?

If animals are buried under volcanic ash on a plain they can fossilize. You're getting out of your depth. Are you about to question the scientific methods of dating beyond carbon dating? I'll save you the time. Where did all the water go? 
#22
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
If God is The Ultimate Reality, which God certainly is, you criticizing God for what God does amounts to little more than pointing at the sky and yelling "I don't like the way things are, I would rather it be this way, I replace reality with my own!"

The problem of evil and all its variations fundamentally stem from a superstitious understanding of what God is.

The lack of self awareness from the religious never ceases to amaze. I don't believe in god at all. I don't shake my fist at the sky, at all. I don't thank it for things, at all. Life happens. We have to make it what we can. I don't have a problem of evil, because I believe bad people exist and they do bad things. 

You're the only one who's convinced god is the ultimate reality, and have yet to sufficiently explain that definition in a way that convinces anyone. 
#23
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
If God is The Ultimate Reality, which God certainly is, you criticizing God for what God does amounts to little more than pointing at the sky and yelling "I don't like the way things are, I would rather it be this way, I replace reality with my own!"

The problem of evil and all its variations fundamentally stem from a superstitious understanding of what God is.

The lack of self awareness from the religious never ceases to amaze. I don't believe in god at all. I don't shake my fist at the sky, at all. I don't thank it for things, at all. Life happens. We have to make it what we can. I don't have a problem of evil, because I believe bad people exist and they do bad things. 

You're the only one who's convinced god is the ultimate reality, and have yet to sufficiently explain that definition in a way that convinces anyone. 
#24
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
I am not the only one who believes that God is the Ultimate Reality. Besides it being believed by the church for thousands of years, it is in the dictionary.

It is not shocking that I cannot convince a know it all that they don't know it all.
#25
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
Again, rich. I'm the one comfortable with the answer "I don't know" to stuff like "Why's the universe here?" You're the one who says "I know for sure." I'm the one who answers the question with "Why do bad things happen?" with "I don't know, they just do." You're the one who says "Because Jesus is the ultimate reality, praise be!" as if that is even close to an answer. Get it together. 
#26
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
Your so called agnosticism is a pretense for thinking you know better.


If that wasn't the case, you would actually make an attempt to understanding what I am saying instead of pretending like you already know.
#27
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
You use a completely juvenile rhetorical trick to invent a god into existence: if god's reality and you live in reality, then there's a god. You've not demonstrated anything along those lines in 3K posts. Saying it doesn't make it so. You and PGA are basically the same argument: you presuppose the existence of something because you think it's necessary, without ever demonstrating this necessity, and then take it another step further, and say "And it's therefore obviously Jesus." Even if I granted you both that whatever unseen agent to create a universe is necessary and therefore real, you would not be able to make even an inch worth of advancement toward demonstrating that it's got anything to do with the bible. 
Topic's author
#28
WisdomofAges
WisdomofAges's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 354
0
1
3
WisdomofAges's avatar
WisdomofAges
0
1
3
-->
@PGA2.0
ALTERNATIVE to the JESUS-JEW-ALLAH God inventions ?    EASY.....

First....do the right thing.....= relegate the Middle East (human invented GODS) Jesus-Jew-Allah immediately to MYTHOLOGY where they can join 
with Zeus-Odin-Thoth-+++ to many GODS and so called "Divine Entities" to list...for entertainment purposes only.....

OH, by the way, .... what happened to all of the other GODS from 6000 years before JESUS showed up...and why isn't the JEW GOD of MOSES so 
pissed off at this nonsense he shows up himself and sets humanity straight ?  BECAUSE IT IS ALL A HOAX...THEATER....a JOKE....

So 6000 years of civilization is wiped out...the calendar is reset and this boy GOD "JESUS"  HOAX becomes the GOD of GODS !...this white jewish boy...SON of some  ILLITERATE JEWISH VIRGIN TRIBAL GIRL !  (what a joke) ...a baby human form GOD !   is the only one that matters !   

YES ! .....he is for those who are hypnotized and brainwashed to believe this HOAX stunt !   

"JESUS" ?.... creator of billions of GALAXIES and TRILLIONS of WORLDS going back in time 14 billion years...shows up  on EARTH ...14,000,000,000..... years later..... to help some lunatic illiterate tribe in a remote desert.... to get their act together and stop murdering each other in his name !    OK forget MYTHOLOGY just flush this CRAP down a TOILET and forget.......

The Middle East Parasite VAMPIRES who invented and promote...the JEW GOD...JESUS GOD..ALLAH GOD...are all at war with each other...all 3 disagree about the only GOD that matters....all 3 use and abuse each other to gain POWER and CONTROL over weak minded individuals...all 3 totally undermine any other GOD perspective...yet all 3 cannot be RIGHT...the fact is THEY ARE ALL WRONG...

No human needs the Middle East GOD construct to exist and die....the Church-Temple CULTS need the humans to survive....without human slaves to serve the CULTS there would be NO CULT of any consequence.....just a bunch of ignorant insecure humans without brainwashed slaves to serve them....

Anyone who is so mentally degraded to the point of surrendering their FREEDOM to think and reason critically over this Comic Book Garbage only proves how powerful the HYPNOSIS JESUS/ALLAH PSYCHOS truly is....they are SLAVES of the Church- Temple- Mosque programming...SAD
truly PATHETIC....Ok go pray now for SALVATION....fall on the floor and shake like the imbecile you have been brainwashed into

it is TRULY AMAZING that anyone in the 21st century would fall for this RELIGIOUS VOMIT....where are any of these IDIOT GODS ? 

ANSWER :  Between the pages of Bible-Torah-Koran COMIC BOOKS and then BETWEEN the EARS of totally HYPNOTIZED and BRAINWASHED
human sheeple slave drones of very clever PARASITE VAMPIRE CULT practitioners.....FOOLS !   utter FOOLS....pray now...confess...beat yourself
into submission....for YOU...are a BORN SINNER CRIMINAL....the Bible Comic Book says so....



















































#29
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@ludofl3x
Now, let's look at how reasonable us thinking Chance is why we are here. Can chance reason? Does it have intention? How does it sustain anything? Why should something happen, and continually happen, and why do we find meaning and reason for things in a chance universe? Why does every human being have some idea of morality and how do you make sense of morality from a material or secular humanist position? What does it matter that you exist and what will it matter when you are dead? What hope do you have to offer someone dying of cancer? Why should I be "good" as you define "good?" Why is your view of right and wrong actually "right" or is it? Who are you that I should believe your subjective, relative finite mindset and what you have to offer?
Chance is not an agent. It's math.
Precisely. So, if Chance is not an agent how does anything happen?

Also this is a red herring question, [1] no one says chance can reason  [2] nor does our ability to reason have anything to do with the truth value of a universe or existence by chance. It's not a why, either, it's a how. Chance doesn't sustain anything, but again no one says that either.
I asked the question since reason is derived from chance happenstance in your worldview. 

[1] Exactly, Chance cannot reason yet if reason does not originate from a necessary Being it must originate through random (chance) processes. Demonstrate how. If, as you say, Chance cannot do anything (which I agree with, since one definition is a mathematical probability) then you have a problem describing a universe that as no agency or intent to it. It explains nothing. It just begs the question.

Also, since there is no reason for the universe (reason requires reasoning being) why do we constantly find reason in the universe, precise reasoning that we use mathematical equations to explain? If there is no sense to the universe because it was not created by an omnipotent, reasoning, and logical Being, then why do we keep finding reason in everything we analyze? 

[2] The truth value? Truth value requires conscious, reasoning beings and yet you keep finding truths about the supposed chance universe. As many have pointed out, it is almost like we are thinking Someone else's thoughts after Him!

 Since Chance is just a mathematical probability is has no ability or capability to do anything. It is a word we use to describe something we do not understand or what we deem the likelihood of something happening. 

But the question is how do reasoning beings come from chance happenstance? 

And why? Your worldview cannot explain the "why." It just wants to pontificate the "how" and even there it lacks the certainty to KNOW. It complies views that change over time as we learn more about the universe through our reasoning and inquiry into WHY things work as they do. With a new discovery, the paradigm changes. 

The laws of nature are wholly sufficient to sustain the universe, adding something else that's not demonstrable into it demands an explanation.
Laws? How do we have laws if there is no lawgiver? If the universe is a chance happenstance then why should things remain constant? There is no reason they would or should, yet they do. What should that tell you? So why do you have these laws of nature without conscious agency and intent is not logical, is it? It does not compute.  


Morality has been answered repeatedly, it's evolutionarily hard wired into any social creature.
It is not explained. If we are just biological functions and our "behavior" is governed by our genetics and the environment, then why should what I do be good or bad? It is just what has been determined by my genetic make-up and when a person murders another person all that is happening is a response to the specific genetic make-up. Why is the good or bad? Where is the free will here?

And how do you get a "best" without an absolute, unchanging, objective standard or reference point? Why is your relative standard any better than any other relative standard? 

Look around the world. Whose moral standard is LOGICALLY the right or best standard? Is it the standard that says and legalizes abortion or the one that bans abortion and says it is wrong? Why was Hitler's Germany morally wrong if you can't point to an absolute and fixed reference point, a final measure?

#30
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@ludofl3x

The fact that it is so, a product of human evolution, means that it's fallible (if in fact it were authored by an infallible being, no one would ever disagree on matters of morality because it'd be codified and clearly so). It doesn't matter that I exist to anyone who isn't directly in my circle of people, and it won't matter when I'm dead to anyone outside it.
You are wrong.

Since you have volition and you disregard the biblical revelation as a revelation from God, and you have no fixed measure, no unshifting starting point, how do you ever get to best? Do you just say, "This is best!" and someone else says, "No, this is best!" and they both contradict each other. Logically they both can't be true. When you have two contradictory beliefs regarding the same thing (best) both CANNOT be right or true. So which one is it? You do not have the necessary starting point to argue that one is best. If you don't have a best then how do you measure better or evil? It all becomes a preference enforced by those in power. What makes one system of thought any "better" than Hitler's system of thought? Nothing unless there is an objective standard we can appeal to, otherwise values and morality are meaningless. They can mean anything. The Law of Identity (A = A) is not met. Good can mean whatever those in power want it to mean. 

This is where you get really aggravating. What hope do I have to offer someone dying of cancer? None, and if you were honest, you don't have any to offer either.
No, I have hope and I can offer it. I am being honest. What is your standard for honesty? Your worldview can't offer hope for someone dying of cancer without lying to them. You borrow from the Christian standard to comfort them. There is no compassion in an evolutionary process.

You admit you cannot offer such a person hope. It just shows the grim reality of hopelessness and despair from your worldview.