Mike Pence for President.

Author: Alec

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@Alec
It is better for a woman to endure some emotions temporarily from giving birth
And how the fuck would you know that?


Death is one of the worst things, if not the worst thing you can do to someone.
And how the fuck would you know that?

I would consider it at 5 weeks, when the cells specialize. 
And how the fuck would you know that?

Science considers it to be about 23 weeks and they know immeasurably more than you as you prove with every line you type.

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@dustryder
Well a full grown person still has personhood, no matter the state of their body and that should be respected
Does a fetus have personhood?  If not why not?

Think of robin hood. Was he heroic or villainous?
If he did that now, it would be villainous because he robbed from those that earned their wealth.  However, since he did it in the midevil times, when the monarchs inherited and taxed their way to success, I would consider him a positive figure.  I don't know too much about him, so I might change my mind.

Well we can't quantify whether emotions are "worse".
It is safe to say that being stressed out for 9 months is better then being dead.

The only cases in which inflicting death is undeniably wrong is when the participant is unwilling.
The fetus is unwilling.

In the case of abortion specifically, to me, there must be a personal existence for death to be considered either bad or good.
A fetus has personal existence.  A fetus exists.

You've been rejected by parents, so you are denied the typically unconditional love of parents.
The parents can write a letter stating why they aren't taking care of you.  This can include the economic reasons and the hope that someone who is more financially stable can take care of you.

Which can be described through personalities, emotions, memories and experiences.
Or can be defined by something like chromosomes and cell specialization.

 foster care adoptions cost between 0-2000.
A poor person isin't spending $2000 on a kid they can't afford to raise.  There are other ways the foster system makes sure your fiscally and morally ready to raise a child.
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@Alec
Does a fetus have personhood?  If not why not?
The fetal stage lasts for a long time and ranges from viability to non-viability. If I had to markdown a specific point in time in which the fetus should be granted personhood, it would be the 21st week onwards. This seems reasonable from both a practical and philosophical standpoint

If he did that now, it would be villainous because he robbed from those that earned their wealth.  However, since he did it in the midevil times, when the monarchs inherited and taxed their way to success, I would consider him a positive figure.  I don't know too much about him, so I might change my mind.
Are all those who are wealthy today wealthy despite their heritage? Likewise were all wealthy in the setting of robin hood wealthy based upon inheritance and taxation?

It is safe to say that being stressed out for 9 months is better then being dead.
Stress is one thing. Carrying around a large mass in your belly, pushing it out through a vagina and enduring the lasting effects of this physical and mental trauma is quite another

The fetus is unwilling.
How does a fetus have will?

A fetus has personal existence.  A fetus exists.
Physical existence doesn't guarantee personal existence.

The parents can write a letter stating why they aren't taking care of you.  This can include the economic reasons and the hope that someone who is more financially stable can take care of you.
That still seems rather cruel. Imagine knowing that you were intentionally brought into the world, without any intention of taking care of you and knowing that you would have an impaired quality of life and yet doing so anyway. Would a note explaining the justifications actually remove any of the pain and resentment?

Or can be defined by something like chromosomes and cell specialization.
You've basically described our species. But this does not describe our personhood. Let me give you a random example. 

James likes ice cream, going to the beach, and playing football. He's quite a nice, calm person and is slow to anger. He has many memories of his childhood where he plays in the lake beside his house and has a girlfriend of 3 years who he loves deeply. Those that meet him remember him for his kind and happy demeanor.

vs

James has 23 pairs of chromosomes with distinctive and specialized cells

A poor person isin't spending $2000 on a kid they can't afford to raise.  There are other ways the foster system makes sure your fiscally and morally ready to raise a child.
There is a difference between shouldn't spend, and isn't spending. In many cases, poor financial literacy is a strong contribution for a person being poor and this extends to children as well as the latest gadgets. In the case of children, for those who wants them, they are priceless next to the latest gadgets.
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@Alec
As always I know that you have no right to any woman's body uninvited, so you have no knowledge of a fetus. Keep your nose out of women's bodies you misogynist.
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@disgusted
I've decided to stop ignoring you because you are a troll and I hope others don't emulate your mentality or else the 1st amendment would be overturned in the name of, "progress".

I would consider it at 5 weeks, when the cells specialize. 
And how the fuck would you know that?

Science considers it to be about 23 weeks
The cells specialize at 5 weeks (https://blog.udemy.com/cell-specialization/)

As always I know that you have no right to any woman's body uninvited
Why should the woman have any rights to the fetus's body?

Keep your nose out of women's bodies you misogynist. 
Ad hominid attack.  Your lucky this isn't a debate otherwise this would be poor conduct and you would lose a point.
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@disgusted
The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998),

This is the same Keith Moore who believes that Muhammad is a messenger of God. Do you give credence to all of his beliefs

 
If this were true (and you just make a claim without any support) what does it have to do with the unborn? And no, I would not give credence to all his beliefs, nor would I any other fallible human being. Again, this has nothing to do with abortion. You just bring up the subject to poison the well. 
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@mustardness
Truth  and facts do not change because their repeated.
Did you mean, "Truth and facts do not change because they are repeated?"

If that is what you mean, I agree, so what is your point?


Read my lips/text again. Umpteen times Ive stated yes, fetus/baby is human and of course it is alive. Ive never ever stated otherwise.
If it is human and it is alive why are you treating it as less human because you are not willing to give it basic rights - the right to life?

You keep dehumanizing and discriminating against the unborn and treating it with less worth than you give the woman. 


#313--You are okay with killing them (condoning murdering another human being). 
Read my lips/text:I'm ok with pregnant woman deciding what  she does with a non-breathing human being that,

1} is inside her as a non-independent/individual human fetus/baby,
Why should one human being have the right to kill another human being just because it is dependent on them? The newborn is dependent on her too. Should she be able to kill it too? 


2} is an organism of that woman via her body inherenlty directing all nutritional sustinence to that non-breathing, non-independent/individual, non-breating human fetus/baby,
Non-breathing does not make it less human. You keep setting up this artificial distinction. If you want to find a way of killing one class of human beings on the preference of a few, why should we not be able to do it with others, like your class, for instance?


3} non-independent/individual,  human fetus/baby,  that, exists in many/multiple and rapid transistional phases that have not yet lead to,
....3a} not being born-out,
.....3b}  not taken its first IN-spiration of oxygen,
So what makes it any less human than you? You want to deny the most defenseless of all the right to life on the whim of another. 



So, why not apply that standard to yourself? 
1} I asked you to behave as a rational, logical common sense adult, and you keep refusing to do so ergo I cannot repeatedly keep this line immature, irrational illogical lack of common sense with youas the info I give you;
If you want to make a distinction on killing helpless human beings who cannot as yet defend themselves why can't we make similar distinctions with you? There are four basic differences between you and the unborn - 1. Your size, 2. Your level of development, 3. Your environment, 4. You level of dependency. None of these make you any less human than the unborn. Try arguing that they do. Should I be able to kill you like you give the woman the right to kill her unborn just because of one of these differences? Should I be able to decide whether you live or die based on the fact that I'm taller or bigger than you, or that you are less developed in one area than I am, so, therefore, I can kill you? It makes no sense, yet you are doing this with the unborn. 


....1a} It goes in one ear and gets lost in a black hole, or,
.....1b} goes out the other  ear with no reading compreehension along the way through.
I would charge the same with you. 


Are you okay with those who make laws and legislate the unborns death determining you are unfit to live because the elite does not see you are as advanced in some manner as they are?

I'm ok with mature adults who use rational, logical common sense and exhibit moral integrity. This is not you or any radical religious etremist and/or Trumpanzee. 
So, you discriminate on the less mature, like children and babies and the unborn who are not as mature then?

I have not used religious arguments for the most part. You just charge this to avoid the question at hand - why should we treat one human being different than another and if we pick one class how do you justify not picking another class of humans?


If you recognize they are alive and they are human beings (I believe I could find many posts that you argue against them being such
BS and you have not nor will you ever find such posts by me.
You have dehumanized them many times based on them not breathing as yet. Because of this, you deem it justified to kill them. 



Do not speak to me about moral integrity until you examine your own position. 

Do not speak to me about moral integrity until you stop virutal rape{?} of all prenant woman by sticking your immoral nose *v* into their bodily business.  Do you understand that? No? I didnt think so. Take a hike. I cannot repeatedly keep responding to your lack of moral integrity, immature irrational, illogical lack of common sense.
In most cases, the woman agreed to sex and did not like the consequences because she did not take adequate precautions. 

Where do you get your morality from? Discuss that. 
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@dustryder
I am not asserting. I have given you what scientists say. Not only this, it is obvious that a new human being starts to grow from conception/fertilization. 

May I ask what you have read in this field of debate?
Why is it obvious that a new human being starts to grow from conception/fertilization? What is the rationale?
I have explained it to you many times already but your bias keeps you from understanding the argument.

Two human DNA codes combine to create something different from either parent. 


This is my problem with your references to scientists. When it comes to global warming, people are able to point to scientists, who are then able to point to specific facts and figures that show abnormal temperatures. And that's all fine and dandy. Your examples merely describe characteristics and then assert their opinion as truth. You then carry over that opinion and then exclaim "These opinions come from scientists. Obviously this must be objective truth!". But if you don't have the rationale, and the scientists you link don't have the rationale, what am I supposed to do with this? Take it as blind gospel? It's the blind leading the blind.
Individual photos have captured the process from fertilization onward. That is factual yet you refuse to acknowledge it. 

Would you like a formal debate on this subject? I can set it up. 


It is obvious to most scientists that a new human life begins at conception or the process of fertilization. It is not extraordinary, it is common sense. An egg contains 23 chromosomes and so does a sperm. When the sperm penetrates the egg the two sets of chromosomes unite to form a distinct human being, different from either parent. These are facts.
If it is obvious as you claim, then you can make a perfectly reasoned argument as to why a newly fertilized egg is indeed a human being without resorting to "it's obvious", "it's common sense" and "most scientists".
Or you could make a perfectly reasoned argument that it is not. Go ahead, and provide documentation instead of just your own opinion. That is all I have read from you. 

Are you denying it is a human being at conception? 


Would you like a formal debate on this subject?

Now listen to what you are saying: "a beginning of a human being is not equivalent to being a new human being itself." 

What do you mean? This makes no sense to me. Explain it, please. 
I can state that a germinated seed is the beginning of a new tree. Which is perfectly true. Given time, a seed may become a tree and a germinated seed marks this beginning. However a germinated seed is not a new tree in itself. Does this make sense?
A tree is a mature germinated seed. 



The links give specific embryologists and scientists. I listed a couple.

I'm not going to bother until you give me a list of credible scientist who is experts in the field of embryology that state from conception onwards the unborn is not a human being. 
Which is perfectly reasonable for a scientific argument. My argument is philosophical, so here are some resources for that view.

Summarize each one to the points you want me to dispute.

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@PGA2.0
If it is human and it is alive
How do you know it even exists, this is not a generic you it is you the golfer, how do you know this growth exists?

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@PGA2.0
I have explained it to you many times already but your bias keeps you from understanding the argument. 

Two human DNA codes combine to create something different from either parent. 
You explained it exactly 0 times. Two human DNA codes combine to create something different from either parent. I agree with this. Why is that different thing a human being?

Individual photos have captured the process from fertilization onward. That is factual yet you refuse to acknowledge it. 

Would you like a formal debate on this subject? I can set it up. 
Where have I refused to acknowledge this? My issue is that you can describe the physical process as much as you like. The scientists you have produced have also described this process. But you and each one of those scientists have failed to justify why some part of this process constitutes a human being. 

Lets try this. I agree that two gametes from different parents combine to form a zygote, which is both unique and separate from it's parents. I agree that it is of the species homo sapiens, having the required number of chromosomes and the similarity of genome. With that all said in mind, why is a zygote a human being? What is your rationale behind this. More specifically, what is the rationale in terms of my philosophical argument?

Or you could make a perfectly reasoned argument that it is not. Go ahead, and provide documentation instead of just your own opinion. That is all I have read from you. 

Are you denying it is a human being at conception? 
?????

A women, unless intentionally becoming pregnant will be unaware of the pregnancy for several weeks.
Accordingly, a zygote has no discernible impact on the world whatsoever for several weeks.
A human being on a philosophical level is defined by more than just biological components.
One way of defining a human being is through the sum of experiences, whether personal or effected to surroundings
Hence a Zygote has no experiences and is not a human being
I believed you accepted most of the premises. The only snag was with further defining what a human being is past its biological components. I believe you responded to that premise by saying that human beings are defined by your genetic makeup. Which is a biological component. While also accepting the premise that a human being is defined by more than just biological components. I'll leave you to sort out this contradiction.

A tree is a mature germinated seed. 
So they aren't equivalent if you needed to add the qualifier "mature"?

Summarize each one to the points you want me to dispute.
That's not necessary. It was more a demonstration that there are sources that somewhat correspond to my views. For the most However they are not arguing against you, I am. You need but respond to my points. Or don't. 


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@PGA2.0
Just because every word you write is a lie you have no right to project your behaviour on me

If this were true (and you just make a claim without any support)
Moore has stated he is not a Muslim (although he believes Muhammad as a messenger of God)

Notable work
Clinically Oriented Anatomy
Go and hide under your rock.
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@dustryder
I'll respond when I have the energy and the time.  It's not your fault.  I apologize for the inconvenience.

280 days later

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@Alec
I indeed like Pence a lot. Good guy from Indiana
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@Vader
I indeed like Pence a lot. Good guy from Indiana
Lol, because what america needs is to become a theocracy. His extremist right wing views would make him extremely unattractive nationally. He can win in solid red states, but in purple states he would be a massive liability. 
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Pence is a lot less theocratic than most of our founding fathers, yet America has never been a theocracy.

Can you show us the logic you use to say America would become a theocracy if a conservative Christian was president?

Can you even distinguish your paranoid  liberal bias from reality?
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@ethang5
This is a bit of hyperbole. A theocracy requires priests to be the rulers. He isn't a priest so this isn't technically the case. He just wants religious rules to be law. Which is a horrible, horrible idea. 

I hear right wing people cry all the time about how sharia law will take over the country. But when a right wing politicians talks about instituting religious laws that happen to be chrisitian, they don't care at all. That is massive hypocrisy. 
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@HistoryBuff
He just wants religious rules to be law. Which is a horrible, horrible idea. 
Just because religion believes a certain thing doesn't mean we should do the opposite.  We shouldn't have a theocracy, but we shouldn't have an anti-theocracy; something that legalizes everything religion prohibits.  Otherwise, murder and staling would be legal because religion prohibits this.  Granted, some of the religious laws are incompatible with America, like stoning for adultery, but we shouldn't care about religion when making laws.


Also, Mike Pence isin´t theocratic.  Science backs up why a fetus is a human being.  Although he cites the bible way more than he should, on issues like abortion, there is a science pro life argument.  The left and most atheists often ignore it and pretend like the only pro life arguments are religious based, which is incorrect.
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@Alec
Just because religion believes a certain thing doesn't mean we should do the opposite.  We shouldn't have a theocracy, but we shouldn't have an anti-theocracy
Agreed. Religion should play absolutely no part in how we make laws. Pence believes that Christianity should have a special, privileged and protected place in america. That is wrong. Christianity should not influence America's laws. 

Science backs up why a fetus is a human being.
No, no it doesn't. But people who already believe that, often for religious reasons, like to say that it does. 

Although he cites the bible way more than he should, on issues like abortion, there is a science pro life argument.
You just made my argument for me. He, and most people on the right, aren't making any kind of scientific or even logical argument. To them it is a moral issue. And their morals are almost entirely rooted in their religion. Therefore they want to pass laws based on their religion. 

The left and most atheists often ignore it and pretend like the only pro life arguments are religious based, which is incorrect.
I've never seen any pro-choice arguments that are religiously based (it's possible they exist, but they would be rare). But I see lots of people who want to restrict women's rights for religious reasons. 
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@HistoryBuff
Science backs up why a fetus is a human being.
No, no it doesn't.

Why not?  A fetus´s cells specialize at 5 weeks.  Since they got chromosomes and the cell specialization, they are human beings.

Therefore they want to pass laws based on their religion. 
Not applicable to all pro lifers.  Not applicable to me, or Ben Shapiro, or Stephen Crowder.  They and I cite science to back up the claim that a fetus is a human being.

So, we get it, theocracy shouldn't be in place.  But if you want to keep abortion legal, there are secular arguments too that have to be addressed and refuted adequately to keep abortion legal.
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@Alec
Why not?  A fetus´s cells specialize at 5 weeks.  Since they got chromosomes and the cell specialization, they are human beings.
Because cells don't make a person. We can grow specialized cells in petri dish. 

Not applicable to all pro lifers.  Not applicable to me, or Ben Shapiro, or Stephen Crowder.  They and I cite science to back up the claim that a fetus is a human being.
I haven't seen you do so yet. You cite facts, but use them in a way that doesn't make any sense. For example saying that a fetus has cell specialization. That might be true, but it has absolutely no bearing on where or not it is a person. 

But if you want to keep abortion legal, there are secular arguments too that have to be addressed and refuted adequately to keep abortion legal.
And those arguments have been made, many, many times. And this is already pretty much settled. The vast majority of americans understand that a woman has the right to choose if she wants to continue a pregnancy. The small number who want to restrict women's rights just haven't given up pretending like it is something that will actually happen. 
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@HistoryBuff
But when a right wing politicians talks about instituting religious laws that happen to be chrisitian, they don't care at all. That is massive hypocrisy. 
Doesn't it matter what the law being proposed says?

I dislike the Muslim law that requires a petty thief to be dismembered, but like the Christian law that says a petty thief should recompense the victim. Is that hypocritical?
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@ethang5
I dislike the Muslim law that requires a petty thief to be dismembered, but like the Christian law that says a petty thief should recompense the victim. Is that hypocritical?
yes, yes it is. If you are against being ruled by religious law, then you should be against it. You shouldn't object to one religion but want another religion to rule people.

America is not a religious state. It has a separation between church and state. Christianity should have no more role in deciding law than Islam should. 


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@HistoryBuff
Because cells don't make a person. We can grow specialized cells in petri dish. 
When the specialized cells are arranged in a certain way, and if they are a certain type of specialized cell, then they are human cells.  If I grow a human lung in a lab, it´s a human lung.  If I grow a fetus in a lab (if it were possible), then that fetus is a human being.

For example saying that a fetus has cell specialization. That might be true, but it has absolutely no bearing on where or not it is a person.  
Person is different from human.  Person is a legal term.  We can´t accurately call a fetus a human now for the same reason we couldn't call African slaves in the US in the 1700s people; the law stated otherwise.  Human is a scientific term.  If you meet the requirements, you are human.  Because of this, a fetus now is as human as an African slave during the 1700s.

The vast majority of americans understand that a woman has the right to choose if she wants to continue a pregnancy.
It´s not the vast majority.  https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx hows that the ratio between pro choicers and pro lifers in the US is about 1:1.  Moreover, despite young people tending to be pro choice, society has gotten more pro life overall since the 1990s(https://news.gallup.com/poll/235445/abortion-attitudes-remain-closely-divided.aspx).  Since society is being more pro life and abortion rates are falling, Roe V Wade´s days are numbered.  Even Roe died as a pro life advocate and she started Roe V Wade.
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@HistoryBuff
I dislike the Muslim law that requires a petty thief to be dismembered, but like the Christian law that says a petty thief should recompense the victim. Is that hypocritical?

yes, yes it is.
I disagree. Why? Because it is an idiot who is for or against a law simply because it originates from a religious source. It should matter what the law actually says.

If you are against being ruled by religious law, then you should be against it. You shouldn't object to one religion but want another religion to rule people. 
I don't object to religions, I object to laws. If a law is good, it doesn't matter where it from. And if a law is bad, it's source doesn't matter, its bad.

Just being blindly against religion cause people to throw out all the good that can be found therein. Our law calls for freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

Anyway, read the US constitution. Many of our founding laws have religious sources, like all men being created equal. Should we throw that out?
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@Alec
If I grow a human lung in a lab, it´s a human lung.  If I grow a fetus in a lab (if it were possible), then that fetus is a human being.
There is a big leap from human cells to human being. You seem to be arguing that one equals the other when that is very much not the case. You choose to believe so for your own pre-determined reasons. 

Because of this, a fetus now is as human as an African slave during the 1700s.
Again, this is just your opinion. It is not based in science. 

It´s not the vast majority.  https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx hows that the ratio between pro choicers and pro lifers in the US is about 1:1.
There is 2 main problems here:

1) Describing yourself as "pro-life" doesn't necessarily mean you want to ban abortion. That could mean you want reasonable limits on abortion. The question they asked is not clear. 

2) The large majority of young people are pro choice. The large majority of people over 65 are anti choice. Therefore as we go forward this shift is only going to go against you. So society is going to shift to more pro choice, not less. 
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@HistoryBuff
There is a big leap from human cells to human being. 

Humans are composed entirely of cells.  When the fetal cells are specialized, how is this different from a human being?

Again, this is just your opinion. It is not based in science. 
What makes someone a human being is if they have the chromosomes and their cells are specialized.  If you disagree, that´s fine, but what counts as a human being in your opinion?

Describing yourself as "pro-life" doesn't necessarily mean you want to ban abortion.
It means that you want most already legal abortions banned.

The large majority of young people are pro choice. The large majority of people over 65 are anti choice. Therefore as we go forward this shift is only going to go against you. So society is going to shift to more pro choice, not less. 
Many initially young pro choice people become pro life as they age.  Otherwise, you would be expecting pro choicers to become more common.  Instead, more people are becoming pro life since the 1990s(https://news.gallup.com/poll/235445/abortion-attitudes-remain-closely-divided.aspx).  Abortions are already becoming less common and they aren´t going up anytime soon, so once abortions are gone, I predict Roe V Wade will be overturned and abortion might eventually be banned.  If morality doesn´t change, technology certainly will.  Birth control would keep abortions very rare and eventually non existent.  It was technology that ended slavery, and it might be technology that ends abortion.
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@Alec
Humans are composed entirely of cells.  When the fetal cells are specialized, how is this different from a human being?
And trees are made of wood. But wood is not always a tree. All humans have cells. All cells are not a human. 

What makes someone a human being is if they have the chromosomes and their cells are specialized.  If you disagree, that´s fine, but what counts as a human being in your opinion?
It has to be capable of living. A fetus does not have the necessary organs to survive. Therefore it is not a living human. It has human cells, but isn't a human. 

It means that you want most already legal abortions banned.
That is how you interpret that term. But there is no way to know how the people who answered the question interpret it. Since there is no set definition of the term, there is a fair bit of leeway in what it actually means. 

Abortions are already becoming less common and they aren´t going up anytime soon, so once abortions are gone, I predict Roe V Wade will be overturned and abortion might eventually be banned.
lol that doesn't even make sense. Abortions are going down because of things right wing people oppose. Family planning, sex education etc. The success of progressive policies in reducing the number of necessary abortions is not, any way, evidence that right wing policy will implemented in the future. 
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@HistoryBuff
And trees are made of wood. But wood is not always a tree.
Wood is part of a tree, just like a leg is part of a human.  Tree nuts are part of the tree, just like human eggs are part of the woman.  But when the nut is fertilized, it is no longer part of the tree, it is a seperate tree, even if it were to somehow get nutrients from the original tree.  

It has to be capable of living.
The consistency test applies.  Unemployed people can´t live on their own; they need welfare.  Do we kill them because they are dependant on the state?  If not, why do we kill fetuses even if they were dependant on the mother?  It may be a different type of dependency, but either way,
dependency is dependency.  Whether dependent on someone´s body or someone´s money, it´s not worth the death penalty.  You can´t be against the death penalty and pro choice at the same time because pro choicers want to sentence unwanted fetuses to death rather then support adoption for the kid.

That is how you interpret that term. But there is no way to know how the people who answered the question interpret it
If people are asked, ¨Would you consider yourself to be more pro life or pro choice?¨, people would respond according to their actual beliefs.  It seems like a fair, unbiased question.  It isn´t, ¨Do you support a woman´s right to choose¨ nor, ¨Do you value the sanctity of unborn life¨.  It´s an unbiased question.

Abortions are going down because of things right wing people oppose. Family planning, sex education etc. 
80% of pro lifers support the right to birth control, including myself, so the notion that the right opposes birth control is not accurate.
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@Alec
But when the nut is fertilized, it is no longer part of the tree, it is a seperate tree, even if it were to somehow get nutrients from the original tree.  
But until it is capable of living and growing on it's own, it is still just a seed, not a tree. Just like a fetus is still just a fetus, not a human. 

The consistency test applies.  Unemployed people can´t live on their own; they need welfare.
I'm talking about homeostasis, not means testing. Can it maintain it's own life without outside intervention. That means being able to breathe, pump blood, etc. Not financial aid.

You can´t be against the death penalty and pro choice at the same time because pro choicers want to sentence unwanted fetuses to death rather then support adoption for the kid.
The 2 are completely unrelated. 1 is terminating a person. The other is terminating a cluster of cells that might one day be a person, but isn't yet. 

It´s an unbiased question.
I didn't say it was biased, I said it wasn't clear. It's like asking someone if they are a "never trumper". What does that mean? It will mean different things to different people because it is a colloquial term. "Pro-Life" is similar. What exact beliefs that entails is not clear. So maybe people who want some level of restrictions on abortion would identify as pro-life, but they would be strongly against a complete ban. 

80% of pro lifers support the right to birth control, including myself, so the notion that the right opposes birth control is not accurate.
1) where did you get that stat
2) right wing people constantly attack groups that provide that kind of care. Planned parenthood for example. They never stop trying to defund groups that provide family planning assistance. 
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@Alec
Humans are composed entirely of cells.  When the fetal cells are specialized, how is this different from a human being?
Just take it by the hand down to your local school and commence it's education.