Liberation Day is here

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#31
Double_R
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@WyIted
What do you mean reciprocal tarrifs from other countries. They tarrifs our cars in Europe at 10% and we tarrifs theirs at 0% for example.
If Trump's tariffs were limited to your cherry picked examples you might have a point. They're not because Trump has no strategy. He's just declaring a trade war in the world. That's incredibly stupid, and every economist who is not on the Fox News payroll agrees.
#32
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@Double_R
EU has always had a flat tariff on all goods from America. How is that remotely fair.

Help me out here chatzie!

Ohhh, okay, little fella! Listen up! So, the big kids over in Europe? Yeah, they made a rule that every time America wants to sell them toys, candy, or, I don’t know, tractors, America has to pay them extra money first. But guess what? When Europe wants to sell stuff to America, they don’t have to pay as much! 😲 That means Europe gets to play the game on easy mode while America has to carry a big, heavy backpack full of rocks. And when America says, “Hey, that’s not fair!” Europe just shrugs and says, “Too bad! Those are the rules!” And America, instead of taking its ball and going home, just sighs and keeps playing anyway. Kinda silly, huh?

Ohhh, buddy, it gets even sillier! 😲 So, Europe is really, really big—like a giant kid on the playground who tells everyone what to do. Because it has so many countries all working together, it can boss around smaller places and even America sometimes! If a company wants to sell things in Europe, they have to follow Europe’s special rules, even if those rules don’t make sense. And if a country does something Europe doesn’t like? BOOM! Europe says, “No more trade for you!” and makes them play alone. 😡 It’s like the biggest kid on the swings telling everyone, “If you don’t play my way, you can’t play at all!” And since nobody wants to be left out, they just nod and go along with it. Kinda sneaky, huh? 😏
#33
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@TheGreatSunGod
almost everyone uses tariffs. I am not sure why you choose to attack Trump
Because of the batshit crazy way he's going about this. Tariffs in the abstract are neither good nor bad. They're a tool, and just like any tool their effectiveness for positive change depends entirely on how they're implemented.

Used strategically, tariffs can help you bolster a particular industry you find beneficial to national interests. Trump is not being strategic at all. If his goal was to fuck this up there's nothing he could have done any differently.

The whole idea of tarrifs is supposed to be to influence investor behavior. But when Trump announces tariffs and then cancels them and then announces them again... investors flee. Their not going to invest when they don't know what he's going to do next.

He's also not implementing them surgically, which is itself insane. Not every product should come from the US. The US for example doesn't have the capability of producing the type and scale of avacados that Mexico has, so putting tariffs on those will only raise the price of guacamole.

He's flip flopped all over the place on why he's doing it. First it was because other countries pay the tariffs, but everyone has since figured out that's a blatant lie. Then he said it was to stop fentanyl, then it was to stop illegals, then it was because we're getting ripped off, etc. etc. etc. If no one knows why he's doing it then there's no incentive to negotiate terms that work better for everyone.

He's also made this personal. If you piss other nations off you only incentivize them to retaliate further. Normally what stops that to a large extent is the fear of escalation, they're not going to take any action that will hurt them more. But when you piss them off they'll be willing to endure the pain so long as you feel it too. Canada has pulled US liquor off their shelves. Not because they don't want it, but because they refuse to send their money here. That doesn't help anyone.

Again, the idea that everyone in the US will buy American made products sounds wonderful. It sounds like those dollars will all come back flowing into the US, but he's not taking into account that other countries will not buy anything from us so we're losing much of our business as well. It will cause sudden and massive displacement, which is never a net positive.

And probably worst of all is that to the extent he's painted a clear picture of any grand vision it's basically to bring America back to the 70's. There's a reason we moved on from those days. The world has changed and history shows that you cannot unwind progress. If another country can produce a good better and cheaper than us it's often in our best interest to let them produce it while our workforce focuses on things we do better.

Trades don't happen unless both sides benefit. If I have bread and mayo and you have ham and cheese, we both win by giving each other half of what we have. Trump doesn't get that. Everything to him is zero sum; if one side "wins" the other side must be a loser. And there's nothing worse to Trump than being a loser. That's what this is all about. Not us and our well being, but his fragile ego and desire to look tough.

#34
TheGreatSunGod
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@Double_R
If I have bread and mayo and you have ham and cheese, we both win by giving each other half of what we have
Sure, but this isnt about what USA doesnt have. This is about local US buisnesses suffering from foreign flood of cheap products, as trade deficit shows. When you think of a response to this, let me know.
#35
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
EU has always had a flat tariff on all goods from America. How is that remotely fair.
Here is the EU preparing a "counter strike" against us thanks to Trump.

If you want to argue that they're tarrifs against us are unfair, that's perfectly fine. I'm all for fixing any imbalances that exist towards our benefit, bit there's a way to do that and it begins with negotiation. What Trump is doing is just plain stupid and even if by some miracle that no serious economist seems to see coming that everything works out in the end, the pain along the way could have certainly been spared, but Trump is too much of a moron to understand that.
#36
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@TheGreatSunGod
When you think of a response to this, let me know.
Read the rest of my response to you, then insert the opposite of that.
#37
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
 If I have bread and mayo and you have ham and cheese, we both win by giving each other half of what we have. 
If I have to give you 2 pieces of ham for 1 cheese because of tariffs, that's how people like Trump get elected.
#38
TheGreatSunGod
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@Double_R
Trade deficit shows that US buisnesses are selling much less to foreign markets than foreign buisnesses are selling to US markets.
#39
Greyparrot
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@TheGreatSunGod
Bro is literally defending decades of blanket EU tariffs and then pretends Trump has no reason or rhyme to fight back.
Punitive Tariffs are an integral part of negotiations.

If EU is willing to fight Trump 4 years and risk permanently losing the market share of products they enjoy a comparative advantage over right now (mostly due to the unfair tariffs), so be it. America is a pretty resilient and innovative country, there is not much we cannot home grow here.


#40
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
no serious economist ...
Yeah, we lived through 4 years of those "serious economists"

We are seriously over their bullshit.
#41
Shila
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What I said was correct. Tariffs have zero effect on goods made completely in America and purchased by Americans. (like chickens and eggs)

When talking heads say it will raise prices on everything, they are lying to promote an agenda.
About 30 million chickens have been culled due to the disease, making a mockery of Donald Trump’s campaign trail promises to reduce grocery prices. Eggs cost 59% more in February compared with a year earlier, and while the price has declined in recent days, the government has predicted egg costs will inch back up. But the egg focus raises the question: why has the egg become the de facto barometer for economic success in the US?
#42
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@Shila
About 30 million chickens have been culled due to the disease
If my chickens ever get disease, I wont be mean like that but I will use science and magic to heal them.
#43
Shila
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@TheGreatSunGod
About 30 million chickens have been culled due to the disease
If my chickens ever get disease, I wont be mean like that but I will use science and magic to heal them.
Are you saying you are smarter than Trump?
#44
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@Shila
Are you saying you are smarter than Trump?
No.
#45
Shila
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@TheGreatSunGod
Are you saying you are smarter than Trump?
No.
But you just suggested what you would do to keep the price of chicken and eggs down better than Trump.
#46
FLRW
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@TheGreatSunGod

You are much smarter than Trump. The problem is that your father didn't give you $400 million.
#47
Double_R
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@TheGreatSunGod
Trade deficit shows that US buisnesses are selling much less to foreign markets than foreign buisnesses are selling to US markets.
The difference isn't that massive, and bringing all of that industry to the US will take years, probably wouldn't be fully actualized till well after Trump leaves office.

You keep focusing on the trade deficit, did you read and absorb anything else I talked about? Curious to know your thoughts.
#48
Shila
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@FLRW
You are much smarter than Trump. The problem is that your father didn't give you $400 million.
How can he be smarter than Trump who convinced his father to give him $400 million?
#49
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
If I have to give you 2 pieces of ham for 1 cheese because of tariffs, that's how people like Trump get elected.
You don't have to give me anything genius, if the trade didn't benefit you then you wouldn't have engaged in it.

But you're right, ignorance and stupidity like this is exactly how Trump got elected.

Bro is literally defending decades of blanket EU tariffs and then pretends Trump has no reason or rhyme to fight back.
Wow, you really are illiterate.

I didn't defend EU tariffs. I didn't pretend there's nothing here to fight back against. Read my post, as in the words that I actually wrote, and try again.

Yeah, we lived through 4 years of those "serious economists"
You lived through the aftermath of COVID, as did the entire developed world.

X is calling you, they said you're late to class.
#50
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Tariffs have zero effect on goods made completely in America and purchased by Americans.
Nonsense.

If a foreign product costs $100 and the US version costs $105, but Trump puts in a 25% tariff, the foreign product will now cost $125.

That will incentivize the US company to raise their prices to increase their profit margin, which is not only a much more cost effective way to raise revenue than to increase production but will also be necessary to a certain point because of basic supply and demand, which has now been artificially shifted towards the US product.

We already learned this lesson during COVID. Companies don't give a shit about the greater good, they're about profits, full stop.
#51
Shila
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@Double_R
If a foreign product costs $100 and the US version costs $105, but Trump puts in a 25% tariff, the foreign product will now cost $125. 

That will incentivize the US company to raise their prices to increase their profit margin, which is not only a much more cost effective way to raise revenue than to increase production but will also be necessary to a certain point because of basic supply and demand, which has now been artificially shifted towards the US product.
Do Trump’s tariffs increase profit margins for American importers?
#52
Double_R
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@Shila
Do Trump’s tariffs increase profit margins for American importers?
No. They will pass the tariff cost onto us, which in theory will make no difference to them except that also means they will probably sell less product, thereby reducing their overall profit.
#53
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
That will incentivize the US company to raise their prices to increase their profit margin, 

Okay, kiddo, listen up! America makes almost all of its own chicken—like 99.67% of it. We only import a tiny little 0.33%, which is basically nothing. That means no matter how high tariffs get, they can't make American chicken more expensive, because we don’t need foreign chicken!
And if I think farmers can just charge whatever they want just because there’s say, a 1,000% tariff on Chinese chicken, that just shows how little one knows about economics. Prices are set by local competition, not price hikes from stuff we barely even import.

Alright, let’s break this down further. The United States produces nearly all of its own chicken—about 99.67% of it. That means we only import a tiny 0.33%, which is so small it’s practically irrelevant. No matter how high tariffs get on foreign chicken, they won’t drive up the price of American chicken because we don’t rely on imports.

The idea that tariffs on imported chicken would somehow make domestic chicken more expensive just doesn’t hold water. Tariffs only affect imported goods, and when nearly everything we eat is already made here, the impact is nonexistent. Anyone claiming otherwise is either confused or trying to push an agenda.

This misconception often comes from a general misunderstanding of how markets work. Prices aren’t set by tariffs on products we barely import—they’re set by supply, demand, and competition among domestic producers. Even if tariffs made imported chicken completely unaffordable, it wouldn’t matter because we already get our chicken from U.S. farmers.

But some people, especially those deranged by their hatred of Trump’s tariffs, ignore market realities in their rush to criticize. They want to paint every tariff as a disaster, even when it has zero effect on the vast majority of goods. The obsession with opposing tariffs blinds them to basic economics, leading them to make arguments that just don’t add up.

If I truly believed that American farmers could suddenly start charging whatever they wanted just because there’s a 1,000% tariff on foreign chicken, that would only prove how little I understand economics. Farmers compete with each other for customers, and competition keeps prices in check. No tariff will change that fundamental rule of the market.

The reality is, American chicken prices depend on feed costs, labor, transportation, and overall market conditions, not foreign trade policies that barely touch the industry. So when someone starts panicking about chicken tariffs, they’re missing the bigger picture.

Tariffs might matter in other industries, but when it comes to American chicken, they’re irrelevant. Ignoring this reality just because of political bias against Trump’s tariffs is not an excuse to abandon basic economics. Markets don’t work the way some people wish they did, and pretending otherwise doesn’t make it true. So put down the remote, touch some grass, and maybe have a nice basket of American chicken. Or 2!









#54
TheGreatSunGod
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@Double_R
So your response is that you have no response to how you will protect local buisnesses from flood of cheap import?
#55
Greyparrot
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We already learned this lesson during COVID. Companies don't give a shit about the greater good, they're about profits, full stop.

Your entire point was that tariffs don’t matter for goods that are made and consumed entirely in America, yet you dodged that and responded as if U.S. chicken is in direct competition with foreign imports. It’s not. The U.S. imports less than 1% of its chicken, so no matter how high a tariff is placed on foreign poultry, it has no impact on domestic pricing. Your argument would make sense in an industry with heavy import reliance, but for U.S. chicken and eggs, it’s completely irrelevant.

Your COVID example is another red herring. Supply chain disruptions during the pandemic weren’t caused by tariffs; they were caused by labor shortages, transportation breakdowns, and sudden demand spikes. Companies didn’t jack up prices because they suddenly had an epiphany about profit margins, they did it because production couldn’t keep up with demand. That had nothing to do with artificially shifting markets through tariffs and everything to do with the logistical chaos of a global shutdown.

Your lame argument boils down to a general “companies like profits” statement, which is true but meaningless in this context. Companies are always going to price their goods based on supply and demand, not just because a tariff exists somewhere in the economy. Your claim that U.S. farmers would randomly jack up prices just because foreign chicken is more expensive assumes a total misunderstanding of competition, market saturation, and consumer behavior, but hey, when derangement over Trump’s tariffs kicks in, market realities tend to fly out the window faster than an escaped rooster. 🐔 🍗 🐔 🍗  🍔 🍟 

#56
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Tariffs might matter in other industries, but when it comes to American chicken, they’re irrelevant.
You have to be trolling, nobody is this stupid.

Not a single word I typed had anything whatsoever to do with chickens. Common sense that if the conversation is about tariffs, then any arguments made are clearly talking about industries in which US consumers rely heavily on foreign imports.

Next time, before responding to a post, try reading it.
#57
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@Double_R
Next time don't lie and say Tariffs will raise prices on everything. Including goods made solely in America for Americans (such as chicken). You don't get paid millions to lie about that.

Either you failed to read what you quoted, or you lied deliberately. Pick one.
#58
Mharman
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Tariffs are objectively harmful to an economy- I understand the merits of counter tariffs and their usage for a negotiation tactic, the price of goods will rise as a result of these tariffs. 

I would love a world where no country tariffs another country but that doesn’t seem possible right now- not while other countries want to tariff us. Ideally, this would be effective in getting countries to pull their tariffs on us and get those trade deals. If not, it’s gonna backfire hard.

I am very skeptical of this, so Mr Trump, it better fucking work. If this fails you cost the American right the midterms.
#59
Double_R
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@TheGreatSunGod
So your response is that you have no response to how you will protect local buisnesses from flood of cheap import?
My response is that the idea of protecting local businesses via tariffs of the sort Trump is implement is deeply misguided since the world is far more complex than that.

But more to my point, if your goal is to protect US businesses from cheap foreign imports, Trump couldn't be screwing this up any worse.

Again, look at what I wrote. If you don't understand what doing the opposite means then you clearly didn't. I'm happy to expand on what I have to say about this but not if you haven't bothered to read what I've written so far.
#60
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Next time don't lie and say Tariffs will raise prices on everything. Including goods made solely in America for Americans (such as chicken).
I didn't genius. Read my post (you're probably referring to #17) again. I said tariffs will raise prices "for everyone", not "on everything". They will raise prices for everyone because he's doing them on imports all across the globe so it is inevitable that every single American consumer will pay higher prices at some point.

You saw what your mind made up, and then took it to the next level ("including goods made solely in America") again, all in your own mind. It's really tiring arguing with you and having to explain to you over and over again that the foe you are arguing with is your own imagination.

Your COVID example is another red herring. Supply chain disruptions during the pandemic weren’t caused by tariffs
I never said nor suggested they were. I was talking about price gouging or at least something close to that. If you read the words I typed in context that would have been clear.

Your lame argument boils down to a general “companies like profits” statement, which is true but meaningless in this context. Companies are always going to price their goods based on supply and demand, not just because a tariff exists somewhere in the economy
Correct, which was my point if you had bothered to read and absorb it. If your competition's prices are artificially inflated, and that leaves an opening for you to raise your prices while still keeping them lower than your competition, of course you're going to take advantage of that. Not only just because you can, but because buyers of your competitors goods will suddenly be directed towards you thereby creating a supply shortage, which according to supply and demand will result in a price increase.