How do trans people feel about terms that distinguish sex?

Author: Savant

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Savant
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I don't think most transgender people would dispute that sex exists—i.e. humans are generally grouped into a bimodal distribution of mainly being born with female traits (born with a uterus, XX chromosomes, etc.) or mainly being born with male traits (born with a penis, XY chromosomes). I say "bimodal" instead of "binary," since there are exceptions, but it's a pretty strong correlation. People are usually born with mostly male traits or mostly female traits, hence the grouping of the sexes. Otherwise there would be no reason to have different terms for "trans women" and "cis women."

And then there's gender. When trans women are referred to as women, this is using the term to refer to gender identity (which is arguably more nebulously defined). I'd wager that for a long time, a lot of people used the term "woman" to refer to sex and didn't know about gender identity at all. Some dictionaries define the word "woman" as referring to sex, but then some don't. Trans people aren't a monolith, of course, but I do know that many trans men with female traits would say that their sex is biologically female but object to being called a woman. In other words, they're fine using the term "female" to refer to sex but not the term "woman."

This might have something to do with the etymology of the word, but it might also have to do with how often it's used. If we has another word like "blargh" that was widely used to refer to humans born with female traits, would most trans men object to being described that way? Since both cis women and trans men are blarghs, would using the term "blargh" be different from saying they were assigned female at birth? Part of me suspects that many people would object to the use of the term "blargh" for the same reason they would object to using the term "woman" to refer to biological sex.

I guess a similar thing could be said for weight, where an overweight person might be fine being described as overweight but object to being described as "fat." On the other hand, I can't think of any woman with brown hair who would object to the term "brunette." It might be the case that gendered terms sometimes being intended as an insult (i.e. "you throw like a girl") makes some people not want to be referred to with that term, similarly to "fat" being used as an insult. So maybe people's opinion of the term "blargh" would depend on whether the word "blargh" had cultural connotations associated with it.

Maybe a trans person would be able to give their take on this, though it probably depends on the person. I did make some assumptions here about what trans people generally prefer to be called, and I don't know how accurate those assumptions are.
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@Savant
ive noticed the 'female' and 'woman' distinction in the trans community. female, sex. woman, gender and sex. but i just thought of this. does that mean there's male women and female women? and male men and female men? would the trans people be okay with being called a female man if they are a woman that identified as a man? 
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@Savant
but it's a pretty strong correlation. 
Pretty strong? According to the Library of Medicine, only  0.0000007% of us [about 500 of us, worldwide] are not XX or XY, but a numbers of other variables. The truth of the matter is that 100% of us have either ovaries or testes as gonads. Our cis-gender should not be designated by a vagina or penis, but by the gonads. But that  is problematic since ovaries are internal, but everopne has them, one set to a customer, only, even if one has both a vagina and penis. So, "transgender" does not exist, and cannot be chosen by the brain. That is a head-trip. The brain cannot modify the gonads. Hormones do not change them. Surgery does not change them. Worse, every single cell in the body - about 1 trillion of them, also contain, by DNA, our appropriate gender determinative. Are we going to surgically change all of them? Don't thinks so.
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@n8nrgim
does that mean there's male women... and female men? 
Emphatically: no!  Se my post #3. We cannot self-identify, because cis-gender is not properly determined by vagina/penis. The gonads - the set of ovaries or testes determines gender, and the brain has no choice in the matter. None. . Note that LGBTQ+ conveniently ignores  F and M - which is what 99.99999993% of us, worldwide, are. 
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@Savant
Maybe a trans person would be able to give their take on this
Who cares, given that:


though it probably depends on the person

If it's not objective there is nothing to debate.  Ice cream flavors.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If it's not objective there is nothing to debate.
I mean I'd like to hear one person who feels the way I described give some insight.
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I don't know but I have a tip for people who get trans man and trans woman wrong. I didn't know what it meant for the longest time and it messed with me until somebody pointed out that an easy way to remember is to replace the word trans with fake.
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@Savant
Egg producer.

Sperm producer.

Maybe a very few developmental anomalies.

Procreational sex.

Recreational sex.

The mind, it's influences and it's shenanigans.

Modern medical and surgical opportunities.

I care not.

As long as they pay for it.

But we have the NHS...That leaks money like a sieve.

Need I say more?


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@Savant
How do trans people feel about terms that distinguish sex?
Term isnt a problem unless it is used to oppress person's wants. Yes, trans girl can have a penis. No, she didnt choose to have a penis. No, having a penis doesnt change the fact that she is trans girl. Maybe she doesnt want to keep her penis. Anyway, when people use "you have a penis" as a way to make trans girl and her wants invalid is  when you have the problem. The other problem is with labels. People choose their own labels and meanings. Your definition of a word might not be same as mine, and sticking your word to me just to try and crush what I am is just insensitive. It doesnt matter what definition you use because it wont change that trans people exist.
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@Savant
If it's not objective there is nothing to debate.
I mean I'd like to hear one person who feels the way I described give some insight.
Well I've talked to like 7 self-identified transgenders and none of them tell the same story.

It's preference on top of preference. I don't think there are genuine people here who self identify so maybe you need to go to somewhere else for interviews.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
Well I've talked to like 7 self-identified transgenders and none of them tell the same story.
Hard to make an imitation better than the original. Give them credit for trying.
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@Savant
As you said, it is not a monolithic group, and preferences would vary. The trans movement basically makes… stuff up as it goes. What was the case yesterday is not the case today. What is the case today will not be the case tomorrow. If the goal is to keep pushing loudly against social norms, then normalization cannot be the goal. 
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@cristo71
Unless the goal is to normalize outrage justifying unlimited political power...
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@cristo71
Hey.

Reinventing the new sexual high.

I think that there is already a new normal.

In fact, I think that there is always a new normal.


Population still expanding though.

So gametes still fusing somewhere.

Just not in a transsexuals cu*t.

Nor up their arse.




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@ADreamOfLiberty
Unless the goal is to normalize outrage justifying unlimited political power...
Trump reduced their political power.