Castlevania Mafia DP1

Author: whiteflame

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That2User
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@ILikePie5
Based on my character, I believe Supa and Wylted are town and Casey and That2 are scum. Not a lot of info to work with, but that’s what I have 
This is why, you're basing me/Casey to be scum on your character, if I knew your character I'd know why you think this and talk with you to see why you're wrong on my character

That2User
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I presume on Casey's character too, Maria is Alucard's ally in Symphony of the Night
That2User
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Since we're both good guys in Nocturne I assume Casey is town too 
WyIted
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I am still down with a Casey lynch but she said she was going to give some really great analysis when she clocked out was trying to hold off for that
That2User
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VTL Luna
Lunatic
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@That2User
lol
That2User
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@Lunatic
Who do you scumread and why?
You falling deep into theme/character analysis v. behavioral analysis made sense to me
Idk how you play (it's been a long ass time I forgot) but it sounds pretty accurate
Lunatic
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@That2User
Who do you scumread and why?
I am working on some reads right now. Just got to my laptop.

You falling deep into theme/character analysis v. behavioral analysis made sense to me
I literally just binged this series (am still binging it, just starting Nocturne again tonight) so I am very very familiar with the theme and will plan on using theme research as much as possible. I have an idea what I am looking out for in character claims based on my own knowledge of the show, and my knowledge of whiteflame and perception of what I think he would do for balance based on my own role, etc. That said I will also focus behavior. I don't wanna grasp at straws dp1, for example I feel the savant "slip" is a stretch, so im leaning a lil more on theme now than behavior because there hasn't been a ton of behavior until recently, but I will branch into behavior more as the game develops. 
That2User
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You seeing it peaking your interest makes sense, the last scene I saw was Alucard being fucked in a threesome 

Looking forward to seeing your reads
That2User
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savant slipping is definitely a stretch, only saying inactivity ≠ scum (throwing in noob to illustrate the point)
Casey_Risk
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Alright, I'm home. Give me a minute 
whiteflame
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Votes:

Luna (1/5): That2
Casey (2/5): Austin, Pie

Belnades and Belmont! We roll out and hit the road and fight nasty hovering death goats that open their flaming bowels upon the innocent
-Sypha Belnades (from Castlevania S3)

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Alright, regarding Vader and Lunatic. I think Vader is probably being truthful about his Miller claim, as he made it immediately at the start of the game and the justification seems to check out. I can't completely discount the idea that maybe he asked about a miller before the game began and used that to gain towncred, but I don't think that's particularly likely here.

I liked the way Luna responded to Vader specifically because of why he was sussing him -- not merely for claiming an SOP claim, but for the justification not quite adding up in his mind. The interaction between Luna and Vader really does not feel staged to me. Also, I've said this before, but scum generally aren't super enthusiastic about lynching SOP claims during DP1, at least not internally, specifically because they are negative utility for the town. It's usually more useful for the mafia to leave them alive, unless they just come across as strongly towny behaviorally speaking and no one really questions their town status.

Regarding Vader getting his justification slightly wrong, it reminds me of my last game. This was how Vader described his justification:

The claim comes from the beginning part of the DP where it's a 1v4 and Ivan the Terrible is telling all these historical figures how they did and echoing them away. However when Ivan the Terrible meets Catherine, Ivan the Terrible tried to give a horse to Catherine because there was a strong rumor that she died by having intercourse with a horse, so she calls the horse story shit and declines the gift. 
For reference, this is what his PM actually said:

You are Alexander the Great vs Ivan the Terrible! "Look alive, creme de la Kremlin's arriving. Try to serve Ivan, no survivin'. You're a land rover, I'm a land expander, here to hand you your first loss, Alexander." https://youtu.be/NVbH1BVXywY

This one is one of my personal all-time favorites. What starts off as a simple 1v1 turns into a 1v4 as Ivan battles several Greats from history - Alexander, Frederick, Pompey, and finally Catherine the Great, literally killing them all in ways that echo how they actually died in real life. Well, all except for Catherine, whom he tries to gift a horse, but fails to end her this way because, as she says herself, “that horse story is a pile of shit.” You must now predict who will die by public lynching. You are the Bookie. Once per night, you may guess who will be lynched on the following day. If you are correct, you will receive a 1x Vigilante shot which you may use to target and kill any player on the following night, in addition to your normal ability. You win with the Town.
As you can see, the two don't quite line up perfectly, but the basic idea is still right. Vader doing a similar thing here strikes me as being pretty familiar, which is part of why I lean town on him.

More to come, sit tight.
Lunatic
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Thoughts/ Reads:

Pie- Ultimately I am kind of null on pie, but I tentatively lean town on him, and appreciate his activity early which is helping move the game forward. I like that he seems to have backed off is savant pressure as well, which if he stayed hard core on it I probably would be ab it more suspicious, since savant is one of those that pie commonly knows he can get mislynched and turn the blame back on savant, so pie showing any restraint on him is genuinely a positive. At some point I will need a claim to really clear him off the null list for me, but I don't think we need his claim dp1 as there are still a lot of major characters that are unclaimed. 

Savant- Town- Claims he is confirmable with his affiliation and role, I am okay with that for now enough to put him in the town pile, thats a rather bold claim to make as scum dp1. 

Austin- Lean town- Came in with activity and large contributions, I find it strange that he didn't ask me for reads but straight up FOS'ed me for having not posted them. Tbh I didn't really feel like there was enough activity to justify making them yet, but now I am seeing there is 200+ posts even if most of it is fluff, I can at least put something together. Anyways I am pretty sure austin is town based on his soft claim and POE of other female characters that were claimed, meaning he pretty much has to be who I think he is, and thus is most likely town. 

Vader- Flip floping but leaning town. Part of me is leaning town because Hector makes a fvck ton of sense as miller, but it's also a REALLY good fake claim. I would assume its legit if supa didn't get things so confused when initially explaining it. Also I have no clue why Lenore was brought up at all in his description with his most updated description of his role justification, but maybe I am missing something, or he just explained it poorly. Post 28 made a lot more sense as justification though, and Hector is a pretty big character I would be very surprised if he weren't in the series. He also gets the absolute sh1t end of the stick in the show despite also getting the best piece of Pus in the show (Is torture worth it if you get laid by the hottest vampire ever afterwards? A deep philosophical question here...) so Miller makes extreme sense here. He also kind of becomes likeable based on what he has to go through, the audience sympathizes with him despite him being a bad guy originally. 

Barney- Lean Scum- Claims to be an ugly character, most of the ugly characters are pretty bad in the show, a few jump to mind (Varney, Godbrand, the archbishop, Saint Germain, Judge and the priest dude who kills draculas wife). I can't think of a good ugly character protagonist, but hey, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. 


Casey- Lean town- Character seems prominent is Nocturne, though I haven't caught up that far. I watched a lil youtube clip and she does seem to make a big appearance, so I guess I will probably be introduced to this character soon enough.

That2- Lean  town- I vaguely remember a scene in the small bit of Nocturne I watched a year ago, where this character was like a slave to white vampires and rebelled against them or something. Regardless I do think I remember the character, I need to keep watching the show though to make sure it's not someone I am getting mixed up with another character. 

WyIted- I wanna say town, but ultimately I don't know- The whole time I was watching seasons 1-4 I was deeply considering what I would do as a mod with this character, and what whiteflame would probably do. Wylted's character is like the definition of third party in every sense of the word. Ultimately he becomes a "likeable" character and thus I would probably determine whiteflame might make this character town, but realistically he probably commits the second most amount of atrocities against humans next to dracula himself for mostly petty reasons. Like one scene where he slaughters an entire city because the city guard pissed him off. He like Dracula has a tendency to blame all humans for the actions of a few corrupt ones, though this mentality seems to change slowly as the show progresses. Ultimately this character becomes the most powerful of the bad guy trifecta in the end, as he kind of Usurps Carmilla who is and can only be a bad guy in every sense of the word, so does that make him good by proxy? If one bad guy takes out a worse bad guy then kind of just minds his own business for the rest of eternity instead of causing more problems, is he even really still a bad guy? I lean no on this whole thing, and kind of think whiteflame would too. but there are sooo many ways whiteflame could have designed this game and this character is probably the most interesting charatcer in the entire first four seasons, so I want to stay open minded about it. 



Anyways, I have the most doubts about barney at this current juncture, I like pie behaviorally, but he is also a large unknown character wise so he is in my poe as well. 

VTL barney 

Not entirely sure if I would lynch vader, just because of how much sense hector makes as miller, but again I could see it being a fake claim as well. 
Lunatic
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@That2User
You seeing it peaking your interest makes sense, the last scene I saw was Alucard being fucked in a threesome 

That was a trippy scene with a very unexpected ending....


Casey_Risk
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Some of my other reads:

Savant - I've already shared most of my thoughts on him. I don't see a good reason to scumread him for anything he's already said, though nothing in particular makes me want to townread him either. The one thing worth noting is that he claims to have an affiliation-confirming role. I do remember the game where we were scum together (Time Travel/Rants) and in that one, he did suggest that I claim to have something confirmable (without specifics) during DP1, so I can imagine him doing exactly that here. That being said, claiming that your role not only confirms your claim, but also your town affiliation, is pretty bold, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I'll say that Savant tilts town for now.

Pie - Hard to get a read on him. I thought I had a solid scum read on him last game, though I ended up being wrong about that one. Suffice it to say, I still don't agree with his reasoning for sussing Savant, but I don't think it's a scumtell in this case.

Austin - Hasn't said too much yet, but I think his reasoning behind scumreading me and Luna is reasonable at least. No clear reason for me to scumread him, but no clear reason to townread him either. Null.

Barney - Fluff, fluff, fluff. It's pretty much what I expect to see from him during DP1, which is a little bit annoying for me tbh. It's easy to get away with not really contributing anything substantial as scum if that's what you always do regardless. Null.

That2 - The only other game I've played with her was Shocking TV Moments, which ended fairly quickly and I really don't remember much of anything about her playstyle in that one. That said, I like her entry in this one. Didn't seem super concerned about the pressure being put on her for being inactive, and I like her interactions with Pie and Luna so far. Slight town lean.

Wylted - Town. Going with my gut on this one. Yeah, I know I say that every game, but ever since I correctly guessed that Wylted was the Jester in LOLOLOLOL Mafia based on the very little I had to work with from DP1, I've always trusted my gut 100% when it comes to him. The only thing that's really making me doubt myself is the fact that he has been town or 3P for an insane amount of consecutive games. I'm pretty sure the last game where he was actually straight-up mafia was Heroic Heroes, which was quite a while ago now. It feels like he has to roll scum soon, but I know that's just the gambler's fallacy. Actually, being good at playing mafia generally takes practice, and without recent practice, he'd probably be obvious scum after such a long townstreak. Unless he's also been playing mafia off-site; I wouldn't know about that.
Lunatic
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Btw just re-read the OP and apparently mafia are given two fake claims/role claims. This is interesting and I will have to re-evaluate some of my town reads based on this. There are a lot of prominent characters and I can see a couple being given as fake claims. 
whiteflame
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Votes:

Barney (1/5): Luna
Luna (1/5): That2
Casey (2/5): Austin, Pie

We all have nightmares. The first time a slave runs away, they're branded with this mark on their shoulder. Second time, they're hamstrung. Third time, killed. When I was a girl, I was taught to be frightened of people on our plantation with this mark on their body. Troublemakers, But after I escaped myself. I saw them differently. The people with this mark, they're the people who know intimately how much freedom can cost. They wear it every day. So I do too. If I'd let my past terrify me. I'd never be free of it.
-Annette (from Castlevania: Nocturne S1)
ILikePie5
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@That2User
This is why, you're basing me/Casey to be scum on your character, if I knew your character I'd know why you think this and talk with you to see why you're wrong on my character
I’m just commenting based on what we know so far. When other people claim, it may change the calculus. I’m entertaining a possible theme split, though the odds are that they’re garbage.
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@whiteflame
As for this game, yes, there is a theme split. After some consideration, I've decided that Mafia will be given the same opportunity that they've received a lot in recent games: they will learn of two roles and two characters over the course of the first DP with regards to their presence in the game. I will do my best to answer any questions beyond that, which can be posed to me by PM or publicly. I will try to post vote counts often over the course of each DP.
Just to clarify, this is the same mechanic I use in my games right? Scum can ask about 2 characters and 2 roles and you will truthfully answer?
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@ILikePie5
I literally just asked him this in pm, he said yes, scum do ask about characters/roles like in your games
whiteflame
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@ILikePie5
Just to clarify, this is the same mechanic I use in my games right? Scum can ask about 2 characters and 2 roles and you will truthfully answer?
Yes, I copied your homework on this. I will say there is a partial distinction, but I can’t specify what that is without giving away more than I’d like.
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@Lunatic
The whole time I was watching seasons 1-4 I was deeply considering what I would do as a mod with this character, and what whiteflame would probably do. Wylted's character is like the definition of third party in every sense of the word. Ultimately he becomes a "likeable" character and thus I would probably determine whiteflame might make this character town, but realistically he probably commits the second most amount of atrocities against humans next to dracula himself for mostly petty reasons.
Fair enough, but you're also assuming that Whiteflame made the theme split a simple good vs. evil split, and while that's certainly a good possibility, I don't think we can assume that by any means. Maybe it has nothing to do with how "good" or "bad" someone is. My first game was like that. Also, I don't think we can safely assume that WF would make the split so simple just because it's his first game. I remember players trying to use modpsych during my first game, which I thought was just ridiculous. It's reasonable to identify patterns in how mods design their games, but you can't do that if they've never actually made a game before. Any attempt to utilize "modpsych" here is just idle speculation -- worthless.
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@Barney
VTL Barney for full claim

whiteflame
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Votes:

Barney (2/5): Luna, Pie
Luna (1/5): That2
Casey (1/5): Austin

You must sacrifice, give willingly… sacrifice your ethics, your morals. Sacrifice your soul to the task. You must give everything to it, and you must cause pain in the doing of it.
The Alchemist (from Castlevania S4)
Lunatic
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@Casey_Risk
Fair enough, but you're also assuming that Whiteflame made the theme split a simple good vs. evil split, and while that's certainly a good possibility, I don't think we can assume that by any means. Maybe it has nothing to do with how "good" or "bad" someone is. My first game was like that. Also, I don't think we can safely assume that WF would make the split so simple just because it's his first game. I remember players trying to use modpsych during my first game, which I thought was just ridiculous. It's reasonable to identify patterns in how mods design their games, but you can't do that if they've never actually made a game before. Any attempt to utilize "modpsych" here is just idle speculation -- worthless.
I agree with you and don't think I am splitting characters into a good vs bad group entirely, though based on my own character I know protagonists are at least town. There are also varying levels of evil, and dracula whilst technically being the "main" bad guy, is less evil in my opinion, then say Carmilla and her sisters. There's like three or four factions of bad guy in this show, some of which are humans, so I definitely agree the theme split won't be that simple. All I have to go on at the moment is my knowledge that protagonists are town though, so there are a few human characters I can definitely clear based on proxy of that, and Wylted character (if were still not naming him) is still technically an outlier since he isn't a protagonist. The more we play the more clear the theme split will be. I am only noting things for now, but Barney for example is still an outlier as far as I am concerned to my own character and what's been claimed so far, so I am clarifying that I am suspect of him not just because I suspect him of being a "bad guy" per say, though "villains" are still an option for the theme split, though I agree its probably more complex than that. 
Lunatic
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Actually technically the religious priests are still ranked higher than even Carmilla and her sisters as "most evil" but they are kind of a non threat after mid-way season 2. 
Vader
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I checked the site and I saw 60+ new posts. Going to catch up
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@Lunatic
 because I suspect him of being a "bad guy" per say, though "villains" are still an option for the theme split, though I agree its probably more complex than that. 
I kind of want to disagree with this statement (i still have to catch up on some other reads but when I clicked the thread this popped up). I want to try and avoid mod psyche but maybe the theme could be simpler than what it deemed to be. I think focusing on good and evil is not right, but maybe it's staring us straight in the face. I feel like WF wouldn't want to make an extremely complex theme to digest. I also think WF play is generally based on theme analysis in games where he tends to enjoy the theme so I feel like he would want to incorporate that in his game by having a simple-ish theme. But that's mod psyche and i don't want to delve into that world deeper
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I don't like how That2 just quickly categorizes good and evil in the first place with the Nocturnal and assumes town. Throws me off.  i know it contradicts 239 but we can't limit ourselves to good vs bad for basic themes when it could be something else