How can a man know if he is rapist? Are all men rapists?

What if girl told you she wants sex, but she actually lied and didnt want it? Then you are a rapist without even knowing it.

If she said she wanted it, then she consented

Now, if someone is actively pressuring someone into having sex with them, and they keep pushing until the other person "gives in", then that is not proper-consent. 

Maybe she lied. You cant read minds, and consent is in the mind.

Some women are into roleplaying rape. They pretend they dont want it because it turns them on.

"Current research indicates that between 31% and 57% of women have fantasies in which they are forced into sex against their will, and for 9% to 17% of women these are a frequent or favorite fantasy experience. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18321031/

Right, fantasy is not reality. These women don't actually want to be raped in real life.

"Consent does not have to be consistent with personal desire. There are many different reasons someone may consent to sex that they don't want to have, and ultimately the responsibility is on them to deal with that."

If she lied, it's on her. Consent is an action (to give permission), not a feeling. 

I'm trying to imagine what kind of scenario you think this type of role-play occurs in. Roleplaying happens with consent. A woman isn't going to pretend she doesn't want sex as a vehicle for role-playing if the man she's with in unaware, especially if she doesn't know how the man she's with is going to react. The fact that the man she's with would earnestly want to rape her would likely turn her off of the fantasy.. 

Sounds like you are making bunch of assumptions you cant prove. But anyway, the point is that man cannot know if he raped a woman, because maybe she consented and just pretended that she doesnt want it to get turned on more by sex. You assume woman wouldnt do this, but you cant read minds.

Maybe she lied. You cant read minds. Consent is in the mind, not in the word. Consent cannot happen if woman doesnt want it in her mind, and being able to tell a lie means you can never know if she really consented.

Again, you cant read minds to even know that, but some statistics are useful to understand better.

What percentage of women report rape?

"This study was designed to determine whether or not more women are reporting sexual assault, and whether or not previously noted theories about why women do not report continue to be valid. The study revealed that only 18% of the adult women's rapes and only 11% of the assaults of children were reported."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7298584/

"I've assisted more young women than I can count with this very issue. It often comes up at some point during therapy and it's extremely embarrassing or shameful to talk about. However once it's out in the open, the survivor can look at her/his reaction honestly and begin to heal. The shame and guilt around it is a large part of why some rapes go unreported and why there is a need for better understanding in society for how and why this occurs.

There have been very few studies on orgasm during rape, but anecdotal reports and research show numbers from 5% to over 50% having this experience. In my experience as a therapist, it has been somewhat less than half of the girls/women I've worked with having some level of sexual response. (For the record, I have worked with very few boys/men who reported this.)"

This is where your whole premise falls apart, and you're ignoring my point: Consent is an action. It is not a feeling.

Cambridge English Dictionary:

Consent: permission or agreement. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/consent

You're confusing consent with desire. A woman can consent to sex that she doesn't really want to have, but whether or not something is rape is not contingent solely on whether or not a woman wants to have sex, but whether or not she was forced or coerced into having sex.

There has been exhaustive research on why victims of sexual assault and rape don't often report:

You didn't link to a source for this quote, could you provide one?

This is called arousal non-concordance, involuntary sexual arousal, and unwanted sexual arousal

It is your premise which falls apart. Consent depends on mind completely. It is not possible to give permission if it doesnt come from the mind. If it doesnt come from the mind, then mind isnt consenting. People think children cant consent because of their mind being the way it is.

 So if your premise is that consent is just word "Yes", then you concede that children can consent as long as they can say yes. I really enjoy watching people fall in these logical traps I set.

I dont think random incomplete surveys count as research. You could have at least used statistics. But anyway, the quote I posted clearly said they were feeling guilty in most cases. Guilt indicates they did something to make it happen, maybe even wanted it or having mixed feelings.

No.

We cant know if it is involuntary because we cant read minds. But yeah, feeling pleasure from being raped seems to be as common as percentage of women who have rape fantasies.

You continue to wrongly conflate consent with desire. Consent can be motivated by things other than desire.

Children can't consent because they are children.

We don't expect children to have the knowledge or wisdom to be able to make certain decisions for themselves, which is why parents/guardians are often legally required to do so in their place.

You have no evidence that women secretly "wanted it" or had "mixed feelings" about it.

Lol. I found it. You got it from a Reddit AMA

Your argument boils down to: "We can't read minds, and anyone could be lying about anything at any time." It's irrational and paranoid.

We can only know what the research shows, and what the research shows is that experiencing arousal during a rape is typically distressing, and not enjoyable for the victim.

• 20% feared retaliation
  
• 13% believed the police would not do anything to help
  
• 13% believed it was a personal matter
  
• 8% reported to a different official
  
• 8% believed it was not important enough to report
  
• 7% did not want to get the perpetrator in trouble
  
• 2% believed the police could not do anything to help
  
• 30% gave another reason, or did not cite one reason
  

No, it cant.

Great. So now you apply circular logic.

So you concede that consent depends on the mind, therefore contradicting your previous claims.

I dont need evidence, because that wasnt even my claim. I merely claimed that we cant read minds, thus we cant know if they wanted it.

As for your links, they are just surveys which cant be proved true because again, you cant read minds.

You post surveys. I post surveys.

So you have no counter argument to my argument.

By research, you mean surveys which rely on an assumption that people cant lie when they talk. Please stop embarassing yourself by calling that "research".

Here is a definition of guilt:

"a feeling of worry or unhappiness that you have because you have done something wrong"

So when someone says she feels she has done something wrong, then do you take that as true, or do your "surveys science" only accept words you agre

So basically, 28% of them say they didnt consider rape as important enough to punish the rapist for,

and 15% basically say its pointless to even report rape. Is this the survey you want to go with? Because it just agrees with what I said that there is a probability that they wanted it and these are just excuses for not reporting it.

You can consent because you don't want to hurt someone's feeling, you can consent because you feel like you should be in a relationship even if you don't want to be in a relationship with the particular person you're with, you can consent because you're friends are all doing it, and you don't want to be left behind, etc. These are bad reasons to have sex with someone, but they are examples of people consenting to sex for reasons other than actually desiring sex with the person.

Nope. When it comes to sex, children and adults are in different categories (I hope you would agree). Adults are expected to have experience and wisdom that children do not have.

I offered statistics, and you ignored them.

Your argument is based on logical fallacy. "The invincible ignorance fallacy,[1] also known as argument by pigheadedness,[2] is a deductive fallacy of circularity where the person in question simply refuses to believe the argument, ignoring any evidence given. It is not so much a fallacious tactic in argument as it is a refusal to argue in the proper sense of the word. The method used in this fallacy is either to make assertions with no consideration of objections or to simply dismiss objections by calling them excuses, conjecture, anecdotal, etc. or saying that they are proof of nothing, all without actually demonstrating how the objections fit these terms."

You posted a single anecdote from Reddit

Can't counter logical fallacy.

Why did you cite research in your earlier posts if you believe that they are diminished by the possibility of someone lying? Do you only believe research when it supports your argument?

All of your reasons have word "want" in them, and since having sex achieves what they want, they want sex to achieve what they want.

regardless of your logical fallacy regarding child's experience and wisdom.

I already supplied examples of why victims experience guilt.

I don't know how you're jumping from "experiencing guilt" to "enjoying rape." 

Where did you get that from?

As my other sources point out: Victims typically believe that it's "pointless" or "not worth" reporting rape because it's not a guarantee they would be believed, or that they won't face some sort of negative fall-out as a result.

This is what you said in your first post: "What if girl told you she wants sex, but she actually lied and didnt want it? Then you are a rapist without even knowing it."

What do you mean when you "didn't want it." What is "it" referring to?

How is that a logical fallacy?

Surveys*

So you think you can read minds and that people cant lie, and me pointing out opposite is a "logical fallacy"?

I didnt cite actual research. I merely said what many women have said. I didnt even say that I believe them. They say they have rape fantasies. My argument doesnt even depend on their words, but yours does. So their words are either true or not true as a source of information. Take your pick.

Assumption =/= example

Guilt for own rape by definition means they are feeling bad for causing themselves to be raped. Are their words true there?

Also, you already conceded that some women orgasm and feel pleasure from rape.

From the survey you posted. Does math confuse you?

They also think they are guilty for own rape. Is that true too, or do you only pick from their words what you like?

Wow

Its an assumption that superior wisdom and experience of one can negate the ability to consent of another.

I cited statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. What do you think statistics are?

I think dismissing research, studies, and data based on the premise that participants could have been lying is a logical fallacy, yes. 

You did cite research in #4 and #7. It seems like you were attempting to form some sort of an argument around these statistics, and now you're backtracking.

And I'm not arguing that some women don't have rape fantasies, just that having rape fantasies doesn't mean that a woman would want to be raped in real life.

They are not assumptions, they're based on collected data which are cited in the studies that I linked to.

You keep repeating the same thing, and then ignoring what I wrote. Yes, guilt means they feel they are responsible in some way for what happened to them, but it doesn't mean that they were responsible in any way.

And as I've already pointed out, people who experience sexual arousal from rape, do not experience it as "pleasurable." 

If you don't answer the question, I'll take it as a win. 

Only when it pertains to children. Do you disagree? 

So basically, 28% of them say they didnt consider rape as important enough to punish the rapist for, and 15% basically say it’s pointless to even report rape. Is this the survey you want to go with? Because it just agrees with what I said that there is a probability that they wanted it and these are just excuses for not reporting it.