Who changed their beliefs?

Author: Yassine

Posts

Total: 61
#31
Hero1000
Hero1000's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 58
0
1
4
Hero1000's avatar
Hero1000
0
1
4
-->
@Yassine
Our loyalty is with Allah & His prophet (pbuh)
Yes, and Allah highlighted to us our unity with them in monotheism and in believing in the one true God, and ordered us to be kind and generous to them and conduct peaceful dialogue with them, except for those who commit injustice.

Given that we're ordered to be generally kind, and to deal with injustice in a case-by-case basis that focuses on the individual's actions. I feel like generalizing them, and/or 'othering' them as "this group that is a threat to our society, values and/or future" in a not case-by-case that focuses on the group/demographic, I feel like doing that would only make it more difficult, if not become contradictory, to the set of orders Allah gave us that I mentioned.
Topic's author
#32
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Universal laws of nature are survival and reproduction. The ones who survive and reproduce the most end up being in greatest number.
- I like what you said here. Reason why everything about the Western mode of living is unsustainable & will inevitably go extinct. I will add, this ties into the 6 sacred rights in Islam –you can thing of them as universal laws of nature for human society.
1. Faith – to preserve morality, rationality & spirituality on Earth.
2. Life – to preserve the survival of the individual.
3. Reason – to preserve individual free choice.
4. Progeny (family) – to preserve the survival of the species.
5. Property (material wealth) – to preserve the individual's material rights in society.
6. Honor (moral wealth) – – to preserve the individual's moral rights in society.

If either survival either reproduction is harmed, then the group eventually loses its numbers. Well, Darwin did help me understand the laws of nature which are as eternal as laws of universe.
- This isn't Darwin. Survival of the fittest & natural selection are much older ideas than Darwin. His claim is rather biodiversity emerges due to natural selection. Read Muqaddimah of Ibn Khaldun.

Additionally to survival and reproduction, there is power. The power allows the one who has it to achieve his will. Power is 3rd law of nature.
- I will add, in human society the true source of political power is Asabiya – strong in-group allegiance among a hardened homogenous people. The harsher, more united & more homogeneous the greater their power.
#33
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 388
Posts: 12,210
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Yassine
Reason why everything about the Western mode of living is unsustainable & will inevitably go extinct
The only mistake west made is greatly encouraging women to not have kids until 25. All the gay and trans arent the real issue. The real issue for the west is that they reduced their own birth rates by creating mentality where some women dont want kids, some want but start giving birth too late, and some want a limited number kids, like 1 or two. This unnatural system can really only go extinct. The birth rates in western countries are mostly so low that they are forced to import migrants. Nature gave women ability to give birth from age 12 or 13 usually, but somehow western countries think it should be 25. Hence, their 1.6 birth rate. Really, any population which discourages its own reproduction cannot maintain being majority for long.
#34
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 388
Posts: 12,210
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Yassine
 I will add, in human society the true source of political power is Asabiya – strong in-group allegiance among a hardened homogenous people. The harsher, more united & more homogeneous the greater their power.
Its hard for west to ever create that.

#35
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,253
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Best.Korea
 I will add, in human society the true source of political power is Asabiya – strong in-group allegiance among a hardened homogenous people. The harsher, more united & more homogeneous the greater their power.
It’s hard for west to ever create that.
The west is more united than the majority of Muslim countries. Look at what is going on in the Middle East and in African Muslim countries.
Topic's author
#36
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
The only mistake west made is greatly encouraging women to not have kids until 25. All the gay and trans arent the real issue. The real issue for the west is that they reduced their own birth rates by creating mentality where some women dont want kids, some want but start giving birth too late, and some want a limited number kids, like 1 or two. This unnatural system can really only go extinct. The birth rates in western countries are mostly so low that they are forced to import migrants. Nature gave women ability to give birth from age 12 or 13 usually, but somehow western countries think it should be 25.
- It all boils down to Women being in the workforce. This is the greatest qualifier of collapse of birth rates. Anywhere in the world regardless of any other factor, mainstream participation of women in workforce = below replacement birth rates, i.e. extinction. Taking women out of the workforce back to housework means: shorter schooling since higher education is no longer needed ; early marriages since family becomes the primary goal ; lasting marriages since not having responsibilities, relations & security outside the household framework makes puts boundaries against leaving ; more kids since duh ; physically & mentally healthier kids, since the constant presence of the mother with her children is always superior to a stranger's ; more affordable living standard, since all the outsourced household work (babysitting, daycare, takeout, clothing, cooking, cleaning...) is taken over by the wife, better motivated & happier husband, since the service of the wife towards her husband is a constant show of gratitude & respect...etc. <= This is the reason why Feminism is pushed by force onto all nations of the world & also the reason why Taliban banned women from the workforce except in female only spaces, like nurses doctors teachers...etc.

Hence, their 1.6 birth rate. Really, any population which discourages its own reproduction cannot maintain being majority for long.
- It's actually half replacement rate or below among the White populations across the West, sometimes as low as 0.8 & 0.7. The 1.6 is inflated due to immigrant higher birth rates.
#37
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,253
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Yassine
Taking women out of the workforce back to housework means: shorter schooling since higher education is no longer needed ; early marriages since family becomes the primary goal ; lasting marriages since not having responsibilities, relations & security outside the household framework makes puts boundaries against leaving ; more kids since duh ; physically & mentally healthier kids, since the constant presence of the mother with her children is always superior to a stranger's ; more affordable living standard, since all the outsourced household work (babysitting, daycare, takeout, clothing, cooking, cleaning...) is taken over by the wife, better motivated & happier husband, since the service of the wife towards her husband is a constant show of gratitude & respect...etc. <= This is the reason why Feminism is pushed by force onto all nations of the world & also the reason why Taliban banned women from the workforce except in female only spaces, like nurses doctors teachers...etc.
But why do Muslim countries want each man to keep 4 women at home by marrying them?
Topic's author
#38
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Its hard for west to ever create that.
- Don't assume the elites share the same identity or group loyalty as their subjects. The ruling dynasty of the Western empire & its Jewish kingmaker sub-dynasty both do have Asabiya, that's how they are able to rule. They want everyone else to be individual persons, a nation divided by a million identities: interracial marriages, interracial adoption, non-segregated communities, diverse all-spaces in schools, universities, workplace..., mosaic sexual preferences, multicultural outwardness...etc. That's how they make sure never a community will rise to challenge their power. When Malcolm X fought for equal segregation through armed struggle, they killed him & propped up the "peaceful" MLK instead. Hitler is the biggest example of this, for he was able to unite an entire nation under one Asabiya. But this isn't sustainable. 
#39
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 3,157
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@Yassine
The Evolutionation Theory is mythology, a literary talewritten by dumb Jews.

What you are contending requires a direct refutation of the most general principles of most of our physical and biological sciences. As a unifying theory of biology, evolution holds true. Its mechanisms are by no means completely understood and it does not in any way eliminate the mystery of life, question the existence of Allah, or bring into doubt any of the basic tenets of Islam.

Just like Astrology, it's a bunch of anecdotes & ad hocsuperstition & after the fact convenient stories. It is the greatest mostelaborate myth ever conceived by Man.
The theory of evolution is the great unifying principle of biology, as powerful a model to biology as Newton's model was to physics. The conceptual framework of the theory of evolution makes sense of a profoundly wide range of scientific facts and it does it in a magnificent and comprehensive way. It provides a principle of unity, a framework by which science can attempt to explain, to unify, and to order, a vast amount of disparate data into a consistent whole providing tremendous coherence and clarity. To deny evolution you must bring into question the entire interwoven fabric of scientific research.

Flat out denial of the theory of Evolution requires the concomitant denial of an astounding range of scientific disciplines, not just the disciplines of geology, paleontology, archeology, radiometric dating, genetics, and zoology but also such fundamental disciplines as physics, astronomy, astrophysics, chemistry, biochemistry, geophysics, biology, botany, microbiology, and meteorology, and many others. Because of the interrelated aspect of the sciences, you can't really propose that the theory evolution is false without being fundamentally anti-scientific. You can contend that the theory of evolution is incomplete, nobody claims it is complete. If you could in fact, deny the theory of evolution, it would, in effect, unravel the world of science.

And I just don't see why anyone would want to do that. I simply do not see evolution challenging any of the basic tenets of Islam; unfortunately, I can't say the same thing about your contention here. In order to support the belief that evolution is false, you accordingly have to postulate that Allah is deceptive, don't you?

You would need to propose that Allah who would create Man with a rational mind, a sense of wonder, and seeking intellect, while creating a universe with the false appearance of tremendous age, with the overwhelming evidence of "evolution" occurring in creation as a hoax or something. This concept of a deceptive Allah is very hard to accept, it strikes me as a much greater challenge to Islam than any damage the concept of evolution could ever hope to do.

#40
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 388
Posts: 12,210
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Yassine
 It all boils down to Women being in the workforce
Its a cruel joke, really.

What woman would rather work 10 hours in factory than be with her own children?

Besides, once woman is in workforce, she in some cases forgets how to cook or has no time to, which is why kids eat junk food of lower quality.

So yeah, I think women in workforce only works short term, but in the long run, it destroys future generations. In order for woman to be in workforce like man is, she must be allowed to have high education, which then delays reproduction.

And all the contraceptives and abortions are just the final touch in destroying birth rates. Now you have countries like Japan with birth rates of 0.7.  In order to replace population, birth rates must be at least 2.1. 

Many muslim countries have very high birth rates, going from 4 to 6 children per woman.

And because early marriages are common, the new generation arrives faster, is born sooner and thus becomes adult faster.

Western countries used to have that too until they decided to flip values and now they have fake morality which is against laws of nature, hence their population now needs to add migrants to itself just to make up for huge population shortages.
#41
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 388
Posts: 12,210
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Yassine
They want everyone else to be individual persons, a nation divided by a million identities: interracial marriages, interracial adoption, non-segregated communities, diverse all-spaces in schools, universities, workplace..., mosaic sexual preferences, multicultural outwardness...etc. That's how they make sure never a community will rise to challenge their power.
Yeah, if people fight between each other, even on small issues, they will be less likely to unite against the rulers.
Topic's author
#42
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
But why do Muslim countries want each man to keep 4 women at home by marrying them?
- Shila, I can never tell if you are genuinely asking or trying to throw jabs. In Islamic Law, the 4 in question is an upper limit of marital relations a man can have at one time, not an obligation. Beyond such limit, either into extramarital sexual relations or into a fifth marital relation, the man becomes liable to penalty by stoning. In contrast, there is no limit to how many sexual relations one may have in your world, nor are they ever penalized. Having infinitely multiple partners is ok... having infinitely extramarital partners is ok... having mistresses & courtesans is ok... but GOD FORBID! having at most 4 wives equal in rights... – Also, I take it you are Christian. Among the hundreds of men & prophets in the Bible only a handful have one wife... All these are relationships with multiple women, but as long as you avoid calling her 'wive' & instead call her 'mistress' or 'side-chick' or 'friend' or whatever, then it's not scary BAD TERRIBLE PpLyGamY. LOL!


#43
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 388
Posts: 12,210
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Yassine
Having infinitely multiple partners is ok... having infinitely extramarital partners is ok... having mistresses & courtesans is ok... but GOD FORBID! having at most 4 wives equal in rights
The average number of sexual partners for men and women in the United States is 7.2, reports a recent Superdrug survey.

However, some have much more than 7.
Topic's author
#44
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
The west is more united than the majority of Muslim countries. Look at what is going on in the Middle East and in African Muslim countries.
- You missed the point entirely. The West is not united at all, it's the most disintegrated society in human history. The ruling dynasty of the West is. There is a difference. & these same actors are the ones constantly on the lookout for any attempt at nation building anywhere in the world, including the Muslim world, to strike it down & sew division. Muslims are actually much more united than people in the West, by design. The so-called Muslim countries are for the most part vassal states like Jordan, tributary states like Saudi, or satellite states like Moroccan, to the same empire that rules the West. Almost all these regimes or monarchies are legacies of Colonial power. Those who stray from this, like Saddam or Kaddafi are destroyed.

Topic's author
#45
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Its a cruel joke, really.
What woman would rather work 10 hours in factory than be with her own children?
Besides, once woman is in workforce, she in some cases forgets how to cook or has no time to, which is why kids eat junk food of lower quality.
- Indeed. This is one of the most lamentable & damaging consequences of Feminism. Thousands of years of cumulative generational knowledge lost in one generation because the mother sent her child to school so she can join a workforce. You still have "activists" & NGOs today going to the most remote places in Nepal & Inner Mongolia to "facilitate" female education with the stupidest propaganda. It's ABHORRENT to them to see girls & women working in the service of their families instead of working for a company... 

So yeah, I think women in workforce only works short term, but in the long run, it destroys future generations. In order for woman to be in workforce like man is, she must be allowed to have high education, which then delays reproduction.
And all the contraceptives and abortions are just the final touch in destroying birth rates. Now you have countries like Japan with birth rates of 0.7.  In order to replace population, birth rates must be at least 2.1. 
- Good point. Ironically, Japan's male workforce today would've been larger than its current total workforce had Japan not integrated women in the workforce post WWII (a policy forced on them by the US). Even in economic terms, this outcome might have been slightly disadvantageous in the short-term, but it's vastly better in the longer term. Now their population is aging so much, for each 1 working person there are another 2 to care for, old & young.

Many muslim countries have very high birth rates, going from 4 to 6 children per woman.
- Sadly, this is coming to Muslim countries as well. Morocco's fertility is around 1.8...

And because early marriages are common, the new generation arrives faster, is born sooner and thus becomes adult faster.
Western countries used to have that too until they decided to flip values and now they have fake morality which is against laws of nature, hence their population now needs to add migrants to itself just to make up for huge population shortages.
- They haven't decided. These things are by design. I will write a post about this.

Yeah, if people fight between each other, even on small issues, they will be less likely to unite against the rulers.
- It has to do more with having homogeneous communities than inter conflicts. A community that shares  the same ethnicity, faith, values, language...etc, is like a nation in & of itself. This is unacceptable to the empire. It is easier to rule individuals than nations. States in the past sent armies to ask for higher taxes, today they just get together & decide & there is nothing anyone can do about it. It also has to do with creating a new multicultural societies with no attachments to historical religious or racial identities. A child of an interracial interfaith couple for instance, has no origin outside the state.

#46
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,214
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea

If you are rich you can have 13 kids.
Topic's author
#47
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Hero1000
Yes, and Allah highlighted to us our unity with them in monotheism and in believing in the one true God, and ordered us to be kind and generous to them and conduct peaceful dialogue with them, except for those who commit injustice.
- Sure. How is that relevant to what I said? 

Given that we're ordered to be generally kind, and to deal with injustice in a case-by-case basis that focuses on the individual's actions.
- When it comes to Law, yes. When it comes to Politics, no. State actions are, by design, collectivist. 

I feel like generalizing them, and/or 'othering' them as "this group that is a threat to our society, values and/or future" in a not case-by-case that focuses on the group/demographic, I feel like doing that would only make it more difficult, if not become contradictory, to the set of orders Allah gave us that I mentioned.
- You just need to learn more History. They knows yours & convinced you they have none. You have to come to the realization that different peoples have different origins, identities, histories, national memories, faiths... each are ultimately loyal to their own, & you must be loyal to yours. This does not diminish from the inviolable & dignified quality of humans in general –unless hostile.
Topic's author
#48
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Sidewalker

What you are contending requires a direct refutation of the most general principles of most of our physical and biological sciences.
- A mythology needs no assistance of a refutation to be deemed as such. If you disagree, show me how this Evolutionationary tale is, in fact, a scientific theory. One reason is sufficient.

As a unifying theory of biology, evolution holds true.
- It's not unifying Schitt. It's a parasitic narrative sucking the scientific life out of everything it touches. Ew.

Its mechanisms are by no means completely understood and it does not in any way eliminate the mystery of life, question the existence of Allah, or bring into doubt any of the basic tenets of Islam.
- Allah does whatever He pleases. He could've created Life through evolution or otherwise. This does not change the fact that the Evolutionary mythology is a hoax. But you're right, we are 1000 years early to eliminate the mystery of Life. Evolutionation Theory is a mechanical reductionist ad-hoc dumb non-starter cave-man retarded explanation of Life. The view that ducks are elaborate mechanical clocks has been discarded in every field of human endeavour except in this elaborate witch spell of Evolution. 

The theory of evolution is the great unifying principle of biology, as powerful a model to biology as Newton's model was to physics.
- Dude, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The conceptual framework of the theory of evolution makes sense of a profoundly wide range of scientific facts and it does it in a magnificent and comprehensive way. It provides a principle of unity, a framework by which science can attempt to explain, to unify, and to order, a vast amount of disparate data into a consistent whole providing tremendous coherence and clarity.
- If you consider Astrology a consistent whole providing tremendous coherence and clarity to the Cosmos, sure. 

To deny evolution you must bring into question the entire interwoven fabric of scientific research.
- Nah. Absolutely nothing that this Evolutionology proposes contributes any value whatsoever –material or scientific– to any discovery, innovation, finding, or human endeavour.

Flat out denial of the theory of Evolution requires the concomitant denial of an astounding range of scientific disciplines, not just the disciplines of geology, paleontology, archeology, radiometric dating, genetics, and zoology but also such fundamental disciplines as physics, astronomy, astrophysics, chemistry, biochemistry, geophysics, biology, botany, microbiology, and meteorology, and many others.
- That is exactly what a mythology looks like. Nothing you have said has any bearing on the truth of said mythology.

Because of the interrelated aspect of the sciences, you can't really propose that the theory evolution is false without being fundamentally anti-scientific.
- You have backwards. Evolutionationists hamper the progress of Science & obstruct new discoveries, because they are not seeking to understand Life & unravel its mysteries, rather they are after confirming their biases. The darwinist looks at life-forms as badly designed machines barely functional, thus assuming their parts to be a priori functionless & obsolete, only there to explain "evolution". This is not just unscientific, it's anti-scientific.

You can contend that the theory of evolution is incomplete, nobody claims it is complete. If you could in fact, deny the theory of evolution, it would, in effect, unravel the world of science.
- Here is a challenge. Show me how this alleged theory is worth a single scientific damn. A scientific theory is a plausible, simple, verifiable, falsifiable & accurate explanation to an observable fact.
• Plausible: intuitive & in harmony with the general scientific narrative.
• Simple: makes less assumptions as opposed to complex.
• Verifiable: fits observable facts.
• Falsifiable: predicts new observable facts
• Accurate: produces minimal statistical margin of error.

And I just don't see why anyone would want to do that. I simply do not see evolution challenging any of the basic tenets of Islam;
- Why do you keep bringing Islam into this? Even the Shahada can not save this Haram myth of a theory. 

unfortunately, I can't say the same thing about your contention here. In order to support the belief that evolution is false, you accordingly have to postulate that Allah is deceptive, don't you?
You would need to propose that Allah who would create Man with a rational mind, a sense of wonder, and seeking intellect, while creating a universe with the false appearance of tremendous age, with the overwhelming evidence of "evolution" occurring in creation as a hoax or something. This concept of a deceptive Allah is very hard to accept, it strikes me as a much greater challenge to Islam than any damage the concept of evolution could ever hope to do.
- Dude, don't get theological on me. Stick with defending your mythology first. You got any of that "overwhelming evidence"? I just want one.
#49
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,821
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Yassine
No. It [Evolution] is just a theory.  It remains in the realms of theory and not "mythology". 
- The same way Astrology is just a theory of the Cosmos. Both are still mythology, still both are a bunch of myths.
No. Stop being stupid because you have been exposed for being stupid too many times already.


#50
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,588
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Yassine
No real answer to common sense then Yas.

Just a cheap jibe.

So here's one for you.

A low IQ is what is shared by millions of miseducated numpties who bob up and down on carpets mumbling nonsense.

Which isn't to say that mumbling nonsense isn't a shared religious trait.


I think that it was you who I put a hypothetical question to previously; one which you neglected to address.

Have another go.

So, your brother rapes your wife.

Which one do you hug.

Your brother or your wife?
#51
Hero1000
Hero1000's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 58
0
1
4
Hero1000's avatar
Hero1000
0
1
4
-->
@Yassine
Sure. How is that relevant to what I said?
It demonstrates that your response does not display any errors or contentions in my original statement. Nothing I've said discourages loyalty to Allah or implies that that be secondary.


When it comes to Law, yes. When it comes to Politics, no. State actions are, by design, collectivist.
That's still a shallow way of looking at things. Even if the nation populace are the blood and meat of the state, and the low ranking military soldiers are the muscle of the state, those at the top, are the brains of the state, the decision makers. The people at the bottom are just the wheels and the engine of the car, but the people at the top are the true drivers, the ones who decide where the car goes.

You would be correct if you were to, for example, say that the Zionists in charge of Israel are our enemies and are enemies of humanity as a result of the terrorism and war crimes and other offenses they have committed.

But even then, even in politics, we should be acting in an individual case-by-case basis. State actions should not be considered as collectivist, especially as far as culpability is concerned.

You just need to learn more History. They knows yours & convinced you they have none. You have to come to the realization that different peoples have different origins, identities, histories, national memories, faiths... each are ultimately loyal to their own, & you must be loyal to yours. This does not diminish from the inviolable & dignified quality of humans in general –unless hostile.
Firstly, I have never said nor implied that Jewish people don't have their histories, cultures, etc. , this is a short-sighted assumption you've made about me.

Secondly and more importantly, no, just no, loyalty is not the key important factor here, whether it comes to human progress, societal progress, or theological and spiritual progress. Reason and logic is the key important factor to these things and more. We should not be followers of Islam because it was the faith that we were brought up in and grew up with and learned and raised in, we should be followers of Islam because it is the one true religion of the one true God containing his one true message to us.

On the contrary, according to the platonic aspects of Islam. Sticking to tradition, history, origin and/or upbringing, merely for the sake of them having these qualities, is an unislamic notion, because Islam came to the world educating pre-Islamic Arabs against their polytheism, against their ignorant and outdated traditions and customs. Not only is there no inherent merit to loyalty to what you grew up with. But it is also a negative characteristic, both logically and spiritually, to say that one must be loyal to their identities, histories, origins, etc. , Islam might not necessarily be anti-tradition(especially since it, in itself, is a tradition now), but it is, at the very least, anti-blind loyalty to tradition.

You are correct that these things hold weight in peoples minds, and that many of them will be loyal to them, but that does not mean that we 'should', let alone 'must', be loyal to them as well. That is just a non-sequitur.
#52
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 3,157
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@Yassine
The Islamic World is currently lagging but catching up at a faster rate. There is virtually no field in which at least one Muslim country excels, including high tech fields such as semiconductors, drones, aerospace...etc. It's only a matter of time before another shift occurs.
If the Islamic World rejects science, they won't get a turn.
#53
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,253
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Yassine
The Islamic World is currently lagging but catching up at a faster rate. There is virtually no field in which at least one Muslim country excels, including high tech fields such as semiconductors, drones, aerospace...etc. It's only a matter of time before another shift occurs.


Facing Islamist threats, Bangladesh girls forced to cancel football matches.
The women's football match was the third to be cancelled in northern Bangladesh in less than two weeks due to the objections of religious hardliners.
The Islamists insist that the match they stopped was against their religious values and say that they are determined to prevent any future football games.
"If women want to play football, they should cover their entire body, and they can play only in front of female spectators. Men cannot watch them play," Maulana Ashraf Ali, the leader of the Islami Andolan Bangladesh in the Taraganj area of Rangpur, told the BBC.

Topic's author
#54
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Sidewalker
If the Islamic World rejects science, they won't get a turn.
- Muslims invented Science & westerners stole it. We are taking back what's ours. Today, STEM native scientific output by the Muslim world is much large than that of Western world. The majority of STEM publications in the West are by done by foreigners, a good portion of them Muslims. Malaysia is the second exporter of semiconductors in the World after China. Turkey is the second exporter of drones after China. The world has changed. Generations of domination does makes one complicit.

- Even that aside, the US is lagging far behind China in scientific output & not that much ahead of the Middle East. I don't have recent data, but from 2021, the ME was already outpacing the US in the fields of Energy, Computer Science, Mathematics, Engineering, Material Science, & Environmental Science, & not far behind in Physics & Chemistry. That gap might've already been bridged by now, since the ME is growing at a much faster rate. All this considering that half US STEM research is not native whereas most STEM research in the ME is,  & also all the instability in the region in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Palestine who are barely contributing to this development. – As to China, the US lagged by a factor of 1/3rd in almost all these fields. This gap is most certainly bigger today. This reality also extends to Europe. According to 2021 data, France is barely competing –often lagging behind– with countries like Saudi, Iran, & Turkey in all STEM fields, except Physics & Astronomy. 



Topic's author
#55
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Shila

Facing Islamist threats, Bangladesh girls forced to cancel football matches.
The women's football match was the third to be cancelled in northern Bangladesh in less than two weeks due to the objections of religious hardliners.
The Islamists insist that the match they stopped was against their religious values and say that they are determined to prevent any future football games.
"If women want to play football, they should cover their entire body, and they can play only in front of female spectators. Men cannot watch them play," Maulana Ashraf Ali, the leader of the Islami Andolan Bangladesh in the Taraganj area of Rangpur, told the BBC.
- Why do you care whether a female team is allowed to have a football match halfway around the world?? & why is it important to you they play half naked in front of men? Aren't you a female yourself? Are you a perv? What's wrong with you! 

Topic's author
#56
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@zedvictor4
No real answer to common sense then Yas.

Just a cheap jibe.

So here's one for you.

A low IQ is what is shared by millions of miseducated numpties who bob up and down on carpets mumbling nonsense.

Which isn't to say that mumbling nonsense isn't a shared religious trait.


I think that it was you who I put a hypothetical question to previously; one which you neglected to address.

Have another go.

So, your brother rapes your wife.

Which one do you hug.

Your brother or your wife?
- I am having a deja-vu. 
#57
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,588
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Yassine
- I am having a deja-vu.
Me too Yas.

Ignorance is bliss hey?


Muslims invented science.
Nah Yas.

Muslims weren't invented until the 7th century CE.
#58
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,821
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
Muslims invented science.
Nah Yas.

Muslims weren't invented until the 7th century CE.

But Muslims did, make a giant leap in the area of  literature, reading and writing when during their many rampaging conquests  across Europe and up to the Caucuses they destroyed every printing press that they laid eyes on...... during the "Golden age of Islam,"

  "Golden age of Islam," eh. 

#59
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,253
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Yassine
Facing Islamist threats, Bangladesh girls forced to cancel football matches.
The women's football match was the third to be cancelled in northern Bangladesh in less than two weeks due to the objections of religious hardliners.
The Islamists insist that the match they stopped was against their religious values and say that they are determined to prevent any future football games.
"If women want to play football, they should cover their entire body, and they can play only in front of female spectators. Men cannot watch them play," Maulana Ashraf Ali, the leader of the Islami Andolan Bangladesh in the Taraganj area of Rangpur, told the BBC.
- Why do you care whether a female team is allowed to have a football match halfway around the world?? & why is it important to you they play half naked in front of men? Aren't you a female yourself? Are you a perv? What's wrong with you! 
The female team wear the same shorts and t shirts like the men’s team. The6 have to follow the same soccer rules. So why the difference in treatment by Muslims?
Topic's author
#60
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,142
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
@zedvictor4
Muslims weren't invented until the 7th century CE.
- & they subsequently invented Science the following centuries. Much of what is called Classical Physics is actually Muslim Physics, including all of Copernicus, Kepler, Newton & Galeleo's & other's "rediscoveries" *cough* plagiarisms of past Muslim discoveries. 

But Muslims did, make a giant leap in the area of  literature, reading and writing when during their many rampaging conquests  across Europe and up to the Caucuses they destroyed every printing press that they laid eyes on...... during the "Golden age of Islam,"
  "Golden age of Islam," eh.