Don't you pay attention to lib talking points or the news? The cost of living is way out of whack. The average house now is 400k, whereas in the 70s it was way less even after inflation. Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand, cause they privatized colleges. Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general. The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
The cost of living and economy sucks compared to boomer days
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@n8nrgim
The cost of living is way out of whack.
Standard of living has increased.
The average house now is 400k
That's because they've gotten bigger.
Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand
Because it leads to higher pay.
The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
Real compensation has increased, matching the rise in productivity.
Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general.
Life expectancy has continued to rise.
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@Savant
Standard of living has increased.
Well, it did for me after AI was put to use. Not sure about homeless and poor.
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@Savant
That's because they've gotten bigger.
That does actually explain a lot of it, but it still doesn't explain house prizes quadrupling over the last 10 years. If we keep inflation steady prices should only double once every 20 years
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@WyIted
it still doesn't explain house prizes quadrupling over the last 10 years
If demand is going up, that's good for people who own homes. The people complaining about the problem are part of said demand, so they may as well blame themselves.
Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand
Because it leads to higher pay.
Disagree. While yes it is partially caused by that. I think the problem began when they outlawed IQ tests for promotions and so companies were forced to use college degrees because to a certain extent it filters for IQ.
Now college is so watered down you can graduate with an aiQ of merely 100 but outside of education, sociology and psychology degrees you can still be reasonably sure the graduate has an IQ of 120.
Engineering degrees you can safely assume about 130.
Anyway by forcing companies to use college degrees as a metric for IQ instead of IQ directly than it made college more in demand. This created more demand with the same level of supply.
Then you create programs for military to get them educated. (gI bill maybe) And then you further increase demand while keeping supply the same.
Perhaps most insidious was the easy loans and grants becoming available which has a type of double whammy effect.
It increases demand but when loans become a common pay method (same with insurance) it insulates the customers to the price a bit and so it allows for colleges to raise tuition prices to whatever the hell the loan companies will tolerate.
You also have company like Devry who essentially use their customers as pay pigs for useless degrees as well.
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@Savant
Yeah I am not one of those people which may explain my sympathy for those who don't being greater than my sympathy for those who do
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@Savant
If demand is going up, that's good for people who own homes. The people complaining about the problem are part of said demand, so they may as well blame themselves.
Not sure how you write this and think it makes any sense at all. People - that being every young person - should just not want homes? That's the solution? Housing prices, cost of schooling, medical debt in the case of the US - has all skyrocketed. We live in an economy that caters to the super rich. It's crazy debt and scraping by for everyone else. No financial security. Few lucky enough to have a house before middle age. Something is very wrong.
Real compensation has increased, matching the rise in productivity.
This thing also is apparently ridiculously misleading. Total compensation to include exorbitant healthcare costs, cost of schooling. Employees to include CEOs and executives, funny attempt to sweep wealth inequality under the rug. So where's the average person in this? Begging healthcare from their employer?
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@badger
People - that being every young person - should just not want homes?
Demand for homes increases when people want homes. How are you going to blame this on anyone other than those increasing the demand?
It's crazy debt and scraping by for everyone else.
Standard of living has increased.
Total compensation to include exorbitant healthcare costs, cost of schooling.
The point is increased productivity being passed onto employees. Healthcare and schooling are two specific industries, so this critique can't be blamed on the vast majority of companies, which don't control healthcare or schooling prices. Life expectancy has gone up. Standard of living has gone up. A lot of increasing healthcare costs are due to new drugs coming out. When you hear that the price of "insulin" has gone up, it's generally because some new, better form of it was invented, and everyone wants the new thing. Most drugs over 20 years old are no longer patented.
Employees to include CEOs and executives
Most of their wealth comes from stock, not from salary. I'm talking about benefits and wages.
Standard of living has increased.
So what? We all brush our teeth now. We live longer. Medicine and technology are better. We got big TVs to waste our lives on. That's the bare minimum. This doesn't mean that people are getting their slice of the pie.
Most of their wealth comes from stock, not from salary. I'm talking about benefits and wages.
How is stock not total compensation?
Demand for homes increases when people want homes. How are you going to blame this on anyone other than those increasing the demand?
You blame it on a system that allows massive wealth inequality, allows investors and the otherwise super rich to buy up properties. Everyone ever has wanted a home.
The point is increased productivity being passed onto employees. Healthcare and schooling are two specific industries, so this critique can't be blamed on the vast majority of companies, which don't control healthcare or schooling prices. Life expectancy has gone up. Standard of living has gone up. A lot of increasing healthcare costs are due to new drugs coming out. When you hear that the price of "insulin" has gone up, it's generally because some new, better form of it was invented, and everyone wants the new thing. Most drugs over 20 years old are no longer patented.
Healthcare and schooling are essential human needs. You're tacking them in there as benefits passed on to employees to show that people are as wealthy as ever. So people's wealth is their education and their healthcare and they can't afford houses? Your "total compensation" evaporates pretty fucking quickly.
Life expectancy has gone up. Standard of living has gone up.
This is the given in human progress. It says next to fuck all about the state of our economy.
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@badger
Standard of living has increased...So what?
Standard of living is the entire point. If you wouldn't like a society where everyone is poor, then you care about standard of living. A hundred years ago, people with a modern standard of living were lampooned as greedy fat cats living a rare and unsustainable life. Today, it's commonplace in first world countries.
That's the bare minimum.
Except compared to every earlier time in human history.
This doesn't mean that people are getting their slice of the pie.
The entire pie is bigger than it was in the past. I'm comparing against actual previous times in human history, per the topic "compared to boomer days." Not against a hypothetical past.
You blame it on a system that allows massive wealth inequality, allows investors and the otherwise super rich to buy up properties. Everyone ever has wanted a home.
And rich people existing reduces the supply of homes how? Even if everyone is richer, the same number of people will own homes total. Besides, price per square foot adjusted for inflation has remained relatively stable.
Healthcare and schooling are essential human needs.
And they exist on a scale, not a binary. Better drugs keep coming out. Advancements in technology is why people can keep raising the bar for what a "need" is. Hundreds of years ago, schooling was a luxury.
they can't afford houses?
Again, that's increased demand. What you really want is for more living spaces to be produced. But your complaint is the cost of real estate, which is a zero-sum game between buyers and sellers. If the price plummets, just as many people will lose.
This is the given in human progress. It says next to fuck all about the state of our economy.
How do you think goods, services, and inventions are produced?
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@FLRW
@n8nrgim
In 1970 there were203 million of you.
In 2025 there will be 340 million.
Demand drives up prices.
Including, ever changing, ever evolving technological demands.
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@Savant
Standard of living is the entire point. If you wouldn't like a society where everyone is poor, then you care about standard of living. A hundred years ago, people with a modern standard of living were lampooned as greedy fat cats living a rare and unsustainable life. Today, it's commonplace in first world countries.
No it isn't. A fair system is the point. A system that serves the people living under it. Life expectancy is up the world over. Everyone's got a phone now, big whoop. Unless your point is that without massive inequality we'd have no vaccines, then you have no point.
Again, that's increased demand. What you really want is for more living spaces to be produced. But your complaint is the cost of real estate, which is a zero-sum game between buyers and sellers. If the price plummets, just as many people will lose.
My complaint is that in an economy where wealth is leaving the middle class, where the wealth and salaries of the richest are skyrocketing, our future is bought out from underneath us. People can afford houses or CEOs can afford super yachts. The rising cost of land is in part down to there more being people. It's also obviously down to massive wealth inequality, meaning fewer people buy far more.
How do you think goods, services, and inventions are produced?
Very unfairly. With the rewards for their production going mostly to very small groups of people.
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@badger
Like I suggested, too many people.
Too many at the middle and lower end of the hierarchical scale.
Not the fault of the financially successful.
Doesn't matter how we try and organise society, the outcome will always be similar.
And if we keep adding to it, things will inevitably get worse.
We either address the root cause, or keep blindly avoiding the issue until we reach breaking point.
I'm guessing that it will be the latter.
Clever stupid gene.
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@zedvictor4
Money is our access to shared resources, zed. You don't see a problem where fewer and fewer people have more and more of the money? Your grandkids will never afford a house.
What you think of Spain's 100% property tax on non-EU residents?
Must be a bit of a sting in it for you.
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@badger
No it isn't. A fair system is the point.
So you would be happy with a system where everyone was equally poor? Compared to boomer days, we are better off. That's the point of my post.
Unless your point is that without massive inequality we'd have no vaccines, then you have no point.
A lot of new drugs are produced with a profit incentive.
in an economy where wealth is leaving the middle class
How? Their standard of living is going up. Everyone is getting richer.
It's either capitalism or socialism/communism, we have no other choice. I don't think we need socialism/communism which has proved useful only for dictators that want to impoverish people so to keep the power.
Capitalism is not the panacea but it's our best choice. The fact that people are struggling to get by may be an indicator that the system will collapse any time soon. We've got to wait until that moment but in case the situation gets unmanageble, I guess people will revolt against it like the French revolution.
Some seers claim that this moment has come and we'll have this year this revolution that will change the whole system. We'll see.
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@Savant
Compared to boomer days, we are better off. That's the point of my post.
It's an irrelevant point. We're better off than we were in ancient Greece too. Humans figure shit out, it makes our lives better. The cost of living is still way out of whack like OP says. Housing prices are way higher than they should be owing to some people having way more money than they deserve. Something is broken. The average person's life is stress and debt like it never was before.
A lot of new drugs are produced with a profit incentive.
Yeah by people earning normal wages. The whiteflames of the world.
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@IlDiavolo
It's either capitalism or socialism/communism
It can be both. Government can invest in factories with robots as workers, and limit the number and size of houses rich people can have for themselves, while still letting private buisness happen. However, I am afraid government is too stupid to successfully regulate economy. Government seeks to please masses, but masses dont know their priorities. For example, most people would oppose to abolishing medicare and medicaid, even tho it would objectively be better for them.
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@badger
It's an irrelevant point.
Ok but the title of the topic was comparing things to the boomer days, so that's what I was responding to.
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@n8nrgim
Don't you pay attention to lib talking points or the news? The cost of living is way out of whack. The average house now is 400k, whereas in the 70s it was way less even after inflation. Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand, cause they privatized colleges. Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general. The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
That is why they re-elected Trump. Trump said he alone can fix the problem and make America great again.
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@badger
For sure, not enough houses.
Due to changes in social expectation and too much demand.
Houses too costly, largely because of over priced building trades and high demand materials.
Ok, so someone at the top of the tree is going to make a lot of money....But this is how it's always been
If my grand kids are savvy, they will get good jobs, which is essential in todays society.
Though competition for good jobs is only going to increase.
And what the Spanish do, is down to the Spanish and doesn't affect me at all.
8.1 billion and counting...No problem
Because everything is the fault of financially successful people.
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@zedvictor4
Because everything is the fault of financially successful people.
Financially successful people show us how it is done. Eg. Build a Tesla or SpaceX.
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@Shila
Exactly.
Without intellect, innovators and success, we would still be living in caves.
The sort of people who those in the lower pecking orders tend to be envious of.
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@zedvictor4
Without intellect, innovators and success, we would still be living in caves.
Alright, I concede that innovation is bad.
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@Best.Korea
Innovation is either necessary or not.
If not, then how money is distributed is a universal irrelevance.
But If so, then it's fair to suggest that social and material progression is as it should be.
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@zedvictor4
But If so, then it's fair to suggest that social and material progression is as it should be.
Sure, if you like human failure and misery.