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INTRODUCTION.

Welcome to the sixth Sunday School forum post. I usually publish them either on Saturday or Sunday (depending on my availability) so I apologize if I kept anybody waiting. I hope you all have had a wonderful week since I last touched base. I always like to start by explaining what these Sunday posts actually are. Every weekend, I like to publish a response to a Catholic-related topic. Sometimes, I directly answer questions from the community, so feel free to ask anything in the comments (I may respond to it in the following week's discussion). 

Before we begin, I want to emphasize that these posts are not meant for debate, but for exploration and clarity. Many misunderstand Catholic teachings, and my goal is to present them as accurately as possible. If anything remains unclear, feel free to tag me in the comments—I’ll do my best to respond. That said, I am only human and may err in my explanations. If I do, I hope you’ll see that as my own imperfection, not a flaw in the Church’s teachings. I encourage you to seek truth with an open heart. St. Augustine wisely noted, "We love the truth when it enlightens us, but we hate it when it convicts us."

TOPIC.

Today, we will discuss same-sex relationships, a movement that has gained significant traction over the past decades. We will explore what the Church teaches about same-sex relationships and how these teachings have developed.

MAIN BODY.

The Cathechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) unambiguously declares that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered:

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. (CCC 2357).

Notice, however, that the CCC specifically says homosexual acts are disordered. It does not say that a homosexual orientation (or the attraction to the same gender) is sinful in and of itself. The Catechism makes a clear distinction between a homosexual orientation, which is not sinful in itself, and homosexual acts, which become morally problematic when they are acted upon. Let's look at what the next verse (CCC 2358) says:

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
This passage reinforces the call for all individuals, regardless of orientation, to live a chaste life while being treated with respect and sensitivity, avoiding any form of unjust discrimination. 

Romans 1:24-27:

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
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@CatholicApologetics
The term is boykisser.

I dont think anyone calls themselves homosexual anymore. Its kind of an old term out of use. So I dont think Bible applies here.

Now, which acts are exactly wrong? You didnt give us a list.

Is it okay for boys to hug each other for a very long time?

Is it okay for boys to hold hands?

Is it okay for one boy to say to the other boy that he is pretty?

Is it okay for one boy to pet the other boy on the head?

Is it wrong for one boy to cuddle with the other boy?

Is it okay for one boy to kiss other boy on the back of the hand?

Is it wrong if one boy kisses the other boy on the cheek?

How about on the neck? Is it okay for one boy to kiss the other boy on the neck? That isnt really sexual.

How about tummy kisses? Is it okay for one boy to kiss other boy's tummy?

Is a friendly kiss on the lips okay?

You need to give us a clear list of which actions are wrong and which arent, otherwise we are confused.
CatholicApologetics
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@Best.Korea
Catholic teaching distinguishes between platonic affection and acts intended to arouse sexual desire. Brief, culturally normal gestures (like a short hug, holding hands, a friendly pat, or a light kiss on the cheek/back of the hand) are acceptable when free of lustful intent. However, prolonged or intimate gestures (such as extended cuddling or kissing in traditionally erotic areas like the lips, neck, or tummy) are considered morally disordered if they serve to gratify disordered sexual desire.
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@CatholicApologetics
You have to give us a list of wrong actions.

Is it okay for boy to hold the other boy very close to him?

Is it okay for one boy to rub other boy's tummy very slowly?

Is it okay for one boy to kiss the other boy's legs while they are on the bed?

Is it okay for two boys to just sleep close together hugged in same bed?
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@CatholicApologetics
What if its not sexual? Maybe they just like kissing each other?

How can you prove its sexual?
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@Best.Korea
Catholic teaching does not offer a concrete, exhaustive list of “wrong actions” because the morality of any gesture depends on the intention behind it and the context in which it occurs. The key is the intention and context rather than the specific physical gesture, which is why no definitive list can be provided.
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@CatholicApologetics
Catholic teaching does not offer a concrete, exhaustive list of “wrong actions” because the morality of any gesture depends on the intention behind it
So if the intent is to become better friends, then thats a good intent and they can kiss on the neck and lips as much as they want.
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I have more.

Is it okay if one boy holds the other boy around waist?

Is it okay if one boy places his hand on other boy's neck on the side and slowly rubs his neck or just holds his hand there for some time?

Is it okay for one boy to dance with the other boy?

Is it okay if one boy tells the other boy that he is beautiful?

Is it okay for one boy to kiss finger tips of other boy?

Just what is wrong and what isnt?
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@Best.Korea
For a long time, until they were pulled up for it very recently; Catholic Priests and Popes thought that child abuse was the norm.

And Nuns were no better.
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@zedvictor4
Catholic Priests and Popes thought that child abuse was the norm.
They still think so. Their religion is based on brainwashing and abusing children in many ways, not just one.

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@CatholicApologetics
Catholic teaching does not offer a concrete, exhaustive list of “wrong actions” because the morality of any gesture depends on the intention behind it and the context in which it occurs. The key is the intention and context rather than the specific physical gesture, which is why no definitive list can be provided.

The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the "beloved disciple" plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.

A whole new complexion is given to that rather puzzling passage where Jesus exhorts his followers to break family ties: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14, 26). It seems clear now that this is less a negative repudiation of family and more a positive exhortation to join in affirmation of a gay lifestyle and love.

There is at least one new parable, that of the two young men. There are clear echoes of the relationship between David and Jonathan, for Jesus speaks of one young man having his soul "knit with the soul" of the other, and loving him "as his own soul". Intriguing is evidence that the Catholics might be closer to the truth about the status of Mary, the mother of Jesus, than are the Protestants. She has a much bigger role in the life of Jesus than many hitherto expected, with Jesus frequently returning home and making much of her.

Conversely, there is at least one incident when Jesus quarrels violently with Joseph, who shows great hostility and makes wild claims about "manliness". Before, one might have thought that, given Mary's virginity, Joseph's attitude was reflecting the ambiguities of his status in the family; but now it seems more probable that we have here a classic example of the Freudian triangle: over-possessive mother, hostile father, gay son.

Why have we known so little about all of this before? A newly discovered Pauline epistle, appropriately to the Athenians, suggests a major Platonic influence, particularly of the Republic. The classically educated Paul, who was himself gay, saw that same-sex activity was inimical to the success of Christianity in the highly homophobic societies in which he lived. Hence, same-sex affections and activity were concealed, to be known to and practised by only the leaders in secret – the guardians of Christianity as one might say. Obviously, this is a tradition that has flourished and lasted. It is not by chance that John Henry Newman is being made a saint.

Finally, the most important news is that nothing in the newly discovered codices challenges in any way the essential message of Christianity. Jesus was the messiah; he died on the cross for our sins; and through his death and resurrection made possible our eternal salvation. Our overriding obligation is to love God and we do this by loving our neighbours as ourselves. Christianity will never be the same again. Christianity will go on completely unchanged.

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@CatholicApologetics
Some facts suggest Paul was gay
The modern concept of homosexuality did not exist in Biblical times.  But Spong and others point out that a sexual attraction to men would explain some mysteries about Paul’s life:
* Paul never married, which was unusual for a first-century Jew, but had a series of younger men as companions.
* He sometimes expressed negativity toward women and homosexual exploitation.
* Tormented by self-reproach, he pleaded with God three times in vain to remove an unspecified “thorn in my flesh” that troubled him. Some believe that “thorn” was attraction to other men. God’s answer, according to Paul, was to deny his request with the explanation, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
* Homosexuality might even help explain Paul’s cataclysmic conversion experience. He went from intensely persecuting Christians to becoming the most articulate leader of the very movement that he had tried to destroy. His vision of Christ left him stunned by the revelation that nothing could separate him from God’s love.
“The war going on inside of him is a fairly classic description of what I have come to understand in repressed gay males,” Spong said in a Los Angeles Times interview on Feb. 2, 1991.
For Spong, these contradictions finally made sense when he first encountered the possibility of Paul’s homosexuality in the 1937 book “Saint Paul” by British theologian Arthur Darby Nock.
“I was absolutely floored by how it opened up Paul to me,” he told the LA Times.
Some see a possible romantic relationship between Paul and his “beloved brother” Onesimus in the Epistle to Philemon.  There may also be a homoerotic component to Paul’s love for the risen Christ, as explored in “Eros and the Christ: Longing and Envy in Paul’s Christology” by David E. Fredrickson.
Paul also made intriguingly queer male-to-female reference when he said, “I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you” (Galatians 4:19) and “Just as a nursing mother cares for her children, so we cared for you.” (1 Thessalonians 2:7-8).
Paul is the first man ever described as a “bride of Christ,” according to gay Catholic historian Paul Halsall.  Bishop Methodius of Olympus made this gender-nonconforming reference for the first time in the late third century, Halsall writes in “Wedded to Christ: Nuptiality and Gender Reversal in the Lives of Byzantine Male Saints,” a paper for a 1997 Byzantine studies conference.
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@CatholicApologetics
Catholic teaching does not offer a concrete, exhaustive list of “wrong actions” 

The Catholic teaching? What does the god of the bible say on the matter?
Shila
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@Stephen
Catholic teaching does not offer a concrete, exhaustive list of “wrong actions” 

The Catholic teaching? What does the god of the bible say on the matter?
Do they teach that on Sunday Schools?

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@CatholicApologetics
Thanks for that. 

It is good that you have provided the Catholic position. For others, please note, that this is distinct from the Biblical position. And for the most part from the Protestant Position. I can't recall the Orthodox position but I think it is more in line with the Protestant position than the Catholic one. 

The Protestant position in line with the Bible is that certain behaviours are sinful. Jesus, himself, said that even looking at a lady with lust in your heart, looking at porn for instance, is adultery. Adultery is a sin. It is not just the way you are born, it is the heart itself. 

The Roman Catholic position - historically , at least as I understood it, was of the same view. Yet, over the past few years, especially under the leadership of the current pontiff, this may or seems to have changed. 

Remember, this is Catholic teaching. Not necessarily ALL Christian teaching. They have in my mind at least, the authority to make such decisions and declarations for their own church.  Yet they are only one denomination amongst many. (They would never call themselves a denomination) I think of course that Paul would probably put them into the same category as Romans 1:32. they have become enablers of sin. 


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@Tradesecret
The Protestant position in line with the Bible is that certain behaviours are sinful. Jesus, himself, said that even looking at a lady with lust in your heart, looking at porn for instance, is adultery. Adultery is a sin. It is not just the way you are born, it is the heart itself. 
Was this the reason Jesus never married? It would be impossible to get an erection without lust in your eyes for the woman you want to have sex with.
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@Tradesecret
Jesus, himself, said that even looking at a lady with lust in your heart, looking at porn for instance, is adultery
Well, maybe then Jesus shouldnt have created humans with those feelings of lust.

Literally blaming humans for the way he made them.
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@Shila
 It would be impossible to get an erection without lust in your eyes for the woman you want to have sex with.
Just have sex with blindfold.

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@Best.Korea
 It would be impossible to get an erection without lust in your eyes for the woman you want to have sex with.
Just have sex with blindfold.
You still follow your parents advice.
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@Shila
You still follow your parents advice.
My parents are just retards who had their marriage fail within two years and who have IQ of 70. I dont really think they are my parents. I dont really see two 70 IQ retards and abusers producing the smartest person on Earth. It doesnt happen even in science fiction.
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@Best.Korea
You still follow your parents advice.
My parents are just retards who had their marriage fail within two years and who have IQ of 70. I dont really think they are my parents. I dont really see two 70 IQ retards and abusers producing the smartest person on Earth. It doesnt happen even in science fiction.
You were blindfolded when your parents were having sex?
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@Shila
You were blindfolded when your parents were having sex?
I dont think my parents had sex again after my birth.

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@Best.Korea
You were blindfolded when your parents were having sex?
I dont think my parents had sex again after my birth.
Is that how they punished themselves after you were born?
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@Shila
Is that how they punished themselves after you were born?
Yes. They separated.

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@Best.Korea
Is that how they punished themselves after you were born?
Yes. They separated.
And you were left with their blindfolds?
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@Shila
And you were left with their blindfolds?
Yes.

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@Best.Korea
And you were left with their blindfolds?
Yes
Why do you think they will help you…those blindfolds?
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@Shila
Why do you think they will help you…those blindfolds?
They wont. I am not a pervert.
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@Best.Korea
Why do you think they will help you…those blindfolds?
They wont. I am not a pervert.

But you just posted this.

Just have sex with blindfold.