Sunday School: Day 5

Author: CatholicApologetics
Jesus
Christianity
Religion
Abortion
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INTRODUCTION.

A warm thanks to all those who've taken the time out of their day to give today's post a read. I'm happy to see you all here and I hope you all have had a wonderful week. I always like to start by explaining what these Sunday (or Saturday) posts actually are. Every weekend, I like to publish a response to a Catholic-related topic. Sometimes, I directly answer questions from the community, so feel free to ask anything in the comments (I may respond to it in the following week's discussion).

Before we begin, I want to emphasize that these posts are not meant for debate, but for exploration and clarity. Many misunderstand Catholic teachings, and my goal is to present them as accurately as possible. If anything remains unclear, feel free to tag me in the comments—I’ll do my best to respond. That said, I am only human and may err in my explanations. If I do, I hope you’ll see that as my own imperfection, not a flaw in the Church’s teachings. I encourage you to seek truth with an open heart. St. Augustine wisely noted, "We love the truth when it enlightens us, but we hate it when it convicts us."

TOPIC.

Today, I will address a highly controversial issue which many are passionate about: abortion. I'll be exploring and sharing the Catholic perspective along with its Biblical basis. 

MAIN BODY.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) unambiguously declares that every human life must be respected and protected from the very moment of conception. As stated in CCC 2270-2271:

Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person — among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life. Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.
This authoritative teaching leaves no room for ambiguity. The Church’s stance, rooted in both Sacred Tradition and divine revelation, categorically condemns any deliberate termination of pregnancy as a grave moral evil. To act otherwise is not merely a matter of opinion—it is a direct violation of the immutable moral law ordained by God.

Psalm 139:13-16 further reinforces this truth by illustrating God’s intimate role in our creation:

For it was you who formed my inward parts; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; that I know very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me, when none of them as yet existed.
This passage irrefutably demonstrates that God personally and purposefully forms each human being even before birth. The intricate care with which our very being is fashioned affirms that every life is sacred and designed with intention. To deny this divine craftsmanship is to arrogate to ourselves the prerogative of God, thereby undermining His sovereign plan.

Further strengthening this position is the prophetic witness of Jeremiah 1:5:

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.
Here, God’s foreknowledge and consecration of Jeremiah before his birth underscore a fundamental truth: every human life is predestined for a unique and divinely ordained purpose. This scriptural evidence decisively confirms that life begins at conception and is endowed with inherent dignity from that very moment.

Conclusion

In light of these incontrovertible teachings—both from the Catechism and Sacred Scripture—it is clear that human life is sacred from conception. The Church’s unyielding stance against abortion is not a mere doctrinal preference but a reflection of eternal truths revealed by God. Any attempt to repudiate or reinterpret these truths is not only logically untenable but also a direct affront to the divine order. I hope I was able to share the Catholic interpretation of these verses in a logical and clear manner. That being said, if there are any questions or doubts left, please raise them in the comments and I will try to respond to them as swiftly as I can. Of course, this is a religious position—it is not a defense from science.
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In light of these incontrovertible teachings—both from the Catechism and Sacred Scripture—it is clear that human life is sacred from conception. The Church’s unyielding stance against abortion is not a mere doctrinal preference but a reflection of eternal truths revealed by God. Any attempt to repudiate or reinterpret these truths is not only logically untenable but also a direct affront to the divine order. I hope I was able to share the Catholic interpretation of these verses in a logical and clear manner. That being said, if there are any questions or doubts left, please raise them in the comments and I will try to respond to them as swiftly as I can. Of course, this is a religious position—it is not a defense from science.

It that the Churches solution to the Muslim growth.

Muslim mothers will have more babies than Christian women by 2035, a new study has found.

Christianity is currently the largest religion in the world, with Christians making up almost one third of Earth’s 7.3 billion people in 2015. Islam comes in second, with 1.8 billion Muslims globally.

But in less than 20 years’ time this is expected to change, the Pew Research Centre found, with Muslim births modestly exceeding Christian births to make Islam the world’s fastest-growing major religious group.

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Is semen also considered protected? You cant have fetus without semen.
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No, semen itself is not considered a person. While it is essential for procreation, the protection of human life in Catholic teaching begins at conception—when the sperm fertilizes the egg and a new, distinct human life is formed.
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Not forgetting the Chinese and Indian hordes.
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) unambiguously declares that every human life must be respected and protected from the very moment of conception. 

I see so. Even though there are MILLIONS born with irreversible deformities that can now be detected in the womb using modern methods such as ultrasound? 





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Yes , it is wise to avoid bringing that topic up of the Holy Ghost being the Father.
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@Stephen
Even when irreversible deformities are detected, Catholic teaching maintains that every human life is sacred from the moment of conception. The presence of such conditions does not diminish the inherent dignity or the right to life of the unborn, who is made in the image of God.
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Even when irreversible deformities are detected, Catholic teaching maintains that every human life is sacred from the moment of conception. The presence of such conditions does not diminish the inherent dignity or the right to life of the unborn, who is made in the image of God.

Do Catholics believe we are sinners?
The Church understands that we are all sinners in need of a savior (Rom 5:12-21). We are inheritors of original sin and all its consequences, and by actual sin we distance ourselves from God. We can't save ourselves, but we don't need to: Jesus Christ has paid the price for our sins.

What was God's curse in Genesis?
To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, `You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.

The ultimate evil.
Was the Son of God crucified?
Jesus was taken to a place called Golgotha – which means 'The place of the skull' - for his crucifixion close crucifyRoman method of execution by nailing someone to a cross, often until they die of asphyxiation; used on Jesus and many others..

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On Sin
Yes, Catholics firmly believe that all human beings are sinners. We inherit original sin—as outlined in Romans 5:12-21—and add our personal sins, which distance us from God. This reality underlines our desperate need for a savior, a need perfectly met by Jesus Christ.

On God's Curse in Genesis
God’s words to Adam in Genesis (3:17-19) reveal the severe consequences of disobedience. The curse—bringing painful toil, thorns, and thistles—demonstrates the profound impact of sin on creation. It is not merely punitive but sets the stage for God’s redemptive plan.

On the Crucifixion of the Son of God
Absolutely, Catholics affirm that Jesus, the Son of God, was crucified. His death at Golgotha—a historical event confirmed by Scripture—was the ultimate sacrifice, redeeming humanity from sin and opening the way to eternal salvation.

That being said, I don't see how any of that is relevent to abortion.
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That being said, I don't see how any of that is relevent to abortion.
If Mary had aborted Jesus when she found out God had raped her. It would have saved her and Jesus the agony of his crucifixion.
Christians might have had a better pick at who they wanted as the God instead of forced to pick a crucified criminal. It all reads like the American elections. Americans forced to elect a convicted criminal Trump.

It was the Roman Catholic Church that defined Jesus’s crucifixion as God’s sacrifice. 
But the truth is very different.

### 1. **The Romans and Jesus' Crucifixion**
   - The Roman authorities under Pontius Pilate crucified Jesus around 30-33 CE. At the time, the Romans did not view Jesus as divine. Instead, they saw him as a potential political threat—a figure who could incite rebellion among the Jewish people in Roman-occupied Judea. Crucifixion was a common Roman method of executing criminals and rebels.
   - From a Roman perspective, Jesus was not crucified because of claims of divinity but because he was perceived as a destabilizing influence.

### 2. **The Rise of Christianity and the Roman Catholic Church**
   - After Jesus' death, his followers (early Christians) began to spread the belief that he was the Son of God, the Messiah, and that he had risen from the dead. This movement grew over the centuries, despite periods of Roman persecution.
   - In 313 CE, Emperor Constantine issued the **Edict of Milan**, which legalized Christianity in the Roman Empire. By 380 CE, under Emperor Theodosius I, Christianity became the official state religion of the Roman Empire.
   - The Roman Catholic Church, as an institution, developed over time, with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) becoming a central figure in Christianity. This was a gradual process, not an overnight creation by the Romans.

### 3. **Is This Blasphemy?**
   - **From a Jewish Perspective**: Traditional Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah or as divine. The idea of a human being worshipped as God could be seen as blasphemous, as it contradicts the strict monotheism central to Jewish belief (e.g., Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one").
   - **From a Christian Perspective**: Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). They see his crucifixion and resurrection as central to God's plan for salvation. For Christians, worshipping Jesus as God is not blasphemy but an expression of faith in his divine nature.
   - **From a Roman Perspective**: The Romans initially viewed Christianity as a threat to their traditional polytheistic religion and imperial authority. However, after Constantine's conversion, the Roman Empire adopted Christianity, and the worship of Jesus as God became state-sanctioned. For the Romans, this shift was more about political and social consolidation than theological considerations.

### 4. **Historical Irony**
   - There is a historical irony in the fact that the Roman Empire, which crucified Jesus, later became the political and cultural force behind the spread of Christianity. However, this does not necessarily constitute blasphemy from a Christian theological standpoint, as Christians believe that God's plan was fulfilled through these events.

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@Shila
Your remarks misrepresent the truth of the Incarnation and the Church’s teaching. According to Catholic doctrine, Mary freely and joyfully accepted God’s call, conceiving Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit—not through any act of violence or rape. The crucifixion was not a tragic mistake or the result of a “forced” choice; it was the divinely ordained, redemptive sacrifice through which Jesus willingly took upon Himself the sins of the world. This mystery of salvation, grounded in Scripture and affirmed by Tradition, transcends any modern political analogy or misunderstanding.

Again, how does this relate to the post's topic, and what's up with the asterisks and hashtags?
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) unambiguously declares that every human life must be respected and protected from the very moment of conception. 

I see. So. Even though there are MILLIONS born with irreversible deformities that can now be detected in the womb using modern methods such as ultrasound? 

Even when irreversible deformities are detected, Catholic teaching maintains that every human life is sacred from the moment of conception. The presence of such conditions does not diminish the inherent dignity or the right to life of the unborn, who is made in the image of God.#1

Leviticus . 16 The Lord said  ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 

So they won't be seeing god in heaven then.




This passage irrefutably demonstrates that God personally and purposefully forms each human being even before birth. ........designed with intention. #1
How twisted. 
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@Stephen
The passage in Leviticus 21:16–23, which restricts priests with physical defects from offering sacrifices, is often misunderstood. In the Old Testament, these ritual purity laws governed the Israelite priesthood and the Temple liturgy—they were never meant to dictate someone’s salvation or prevent a person with disabilities from knowing or loving God. Rather, in the context of ancient Israel, the Temple sacrifices were a sacred ritual foreshadowing Christ’s perfect sacrifice; the requirement of a physically “unblemished” priest symbolized the ritual purity associated with these offerings.

Under the New Covenant, ushered in by Jesus Christ, all people—regardless of physical ability—have direct access to God (cf. Galatians 3:28). Christ specifically reached out to the marginalized, including those with disabilities, healing many to illustrate God’s boundless mercy. Catholic teaching affirms that each human person, from conception onward, is created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27), endowed with an inherent dignity that cannot be erased by any physical condition or limitation.
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Your remarks misrepresent the truth of the Incarnation and the Church’s teaching. According to Catholic doctrine, Mary freely and joyfully accepted God’s call, conceiving Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit—not through any act of violence or rape. The crucifixion was not a tragic mistake or the result of a “forced” choice; it was the divinely ordained, redemptive sacrifice through which Jesus willingly took upon Himself the sins of the world. This mystery of salvation, grounded in Scripture and affirmed by Tradition, transcends any modern political analogy or misunderstanding.
How did Mary feel about Jesus' death?
She not only witnessed her Son die, but she witnessed the horror of the manner of His death. She knew deeply and intimately of His perfection and innocence. She saw Him humiliated and His dignity destroyed as the soldiers stripped Him naked and cast lots for His clothing.

What did God promise Mary for conceiving Jesus?
The angel said to her, 'Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David.

Where is Jesus today?
Jesus is a house keeper in heaven preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:1-3
In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

where is a throne of David?
Is it a Palestinian settlement?


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How did Mary feel about Jesus' death?
She not only witnessed her Son die, but she witnessed the horror of the manner of His death. She knew deeply and intimately of His perfection and innocence. She saw Him humiliated and His dignity destroyed as the soldiers stripped Him naked and cast lots for His clothing.

Yes. He kept that from the young Mary didn't he?  Why?


where is a throne of David?
Is it a Palestinian settlement?
 It wasn't called Palestine in the time of Jesus. The throne of David was located in Judah.  As was "the Kingdom of Heaven". So called because the sanctuary and - holy of holies was adorned  floor to ceiling with Astrological depictions of "the heavens"...... a sky map. 
But the Church will never admit this. They want their adherents to believe that the "kingdom of heaven" is above our heads, in the sky.

The church has lied about almost everything from the day of its conception, imo.







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The crucifixion was not a tragic mistake or the result of a “forced” choice; it was the divinely ordained, redemptive sacrifice through which Jesus willingly took upon Himself the sins of the world. This mystery of salvation, grounded in Scripture and affirmed by Tradition, transcends any modern political analogy or misunderstanding.
Human sacrifice was not part of the commandments from God.
In Jeremiah 19:4-6, Gd tells us that human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind to demand it from His creation.

It was not a known practice to allow someone to die for the sins of others.Even the disciples did not know why Jesus had to die.

Why was Jesus' death hidden from the disciples?
The disciples failed to comprehend Jesus' explicit and repeated predictions of his coming crucifixion and resurrection because, even while he was revealing it to them, it was being “hidden from them” by the Lord Himself. And only the Lord could remove that incomprehension — which is exactly what Luke says happened.

All SACRIFICED animals had to be slaughtered by a priest, at the Temple (and prior to that, at the sanctuary), and that animal was treated differently - parts were burnt, parts went to the priests and levites, and the rest was returned to whoever brought it.

The Bible tells us Jesus was crucified for blasphemy. He was put on trial for his own sins and found guilty. Jesus was not sacrificed in the temple. He was crucified in a public area. The crucifixion was not performed by priests. The Roman guards then crucified Jesus.

John 19:23 23 When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.

Is Jesus' death a human sacrifice?
In response, God didn't sacrifice Jesus. Rather, Jesus gave up his own life. No one forced Him. He laid down His life willingly, as He made clear speaking about His life: “No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. Jesus admits he took his own life even though he was crucified for blasphemy and sedition.

Why did the Romans crucify Jesus?

Jesus was arrested on a charge of treason and was crucified, a common form of execution for condemned criminals. To the Romans, Jesus was a troublemaker who had got his just desserts. To the Christians, however, he was a martyr and it was soon clear that the execution had made Judaea even more unstable.

What was the main reason Jesus was crucified?
The Bible says that the crucifixion of Jesus occurred after he was arrested and charged with claiming to be king of the Jews, which was considered a betrayal of the king and punishable by death. Jesus was whipped, carried his own cross, hung between two thieves, pierced in the side, and given a crown of thorns to wear.Feb 6, 2023

Did Jesus ever say he was a sacrifice?
There is no suggestion of his crucifixion being a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. In Luke 24:47, Jesus talks of remission of sins coming from repentance, not from his sacrifice: Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The Bible says that the crucifixion of Jesus occurred after he was arrested and charged with claiming to be king of the Jews, which was considered a betrayal of the king and punishable by death. Jesus was whipped, carried his own cross, hung between two thieves, pierced in the side, and given a crown of thorns to wear.Feb 6, 2023

Where in the Bible does it say Jesus was crucified?
Mark 15:24, Luke 23:33, John 19:18, Matthew 27:35 all share a succinct summary of the crucifixion, in that they all say, "They crucified Him". Mark and John give an account of the time of Jesus' death ("The third hour" in Mark 15:25, and the "sixth hour" in John 19:14–15), whereas Luke, and Matthew himself do not.

What happened to the 12 disciples of Jesus?
James, the brother of John and one of the original Twelve Apostles, was killed by Herod (see Acts 12:1–2). Peter and Paul were also killed during New Testament times. We don't have records of the deaths of all the Apostles, but we do know that all but John the Beloved died and, after a time, ceased to be replaced.

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We inherit original sin—as outlined in Romans 5:12-21

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Absolute cobblers. 

If "sin entered" from anywhere it came from  "heaven" and through gods own sons when they "entered" the daughters of men.  
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@Stephen
We inherit original sin—as outlined in Romans 5:12-21

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Absolute cobblers.  

If "sin entered" from anywhere it came from  "heaven" and through gods own sons when they "entered" the daughters of men.  
That is why God sacrificed his own son Jesus to bring salvation. But it didn’t work. Sin continues to grow.
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@Stephen
Sin came from Adam's God-given gift to choose for himself right and wrong—an ability which led to the fall of man.
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Sin came from Adam's God-given gift to choose for himself right and wrong—an ability which led to the fall of man.
According to the Bible their sin was becoming like God.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

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Sin came from Adam's God-given gift to choose for himself right and wrong—an ability which led to the fall of man.

That will be the "free will" argument that Christians often spout.  Its hardly free will if it comes with the threat of death. Bible is full of stories about god violating free will all the time.

Expelling Adam and Eve out of Eden?  Sentencing them to death, suffering and painful childbirth?  Against their will.

The death of the firstborn of Egypt?  Against their will.   Bible says god hardened Pharaoh’s heart to make him not want to let the Israelites go. Against his free will.

Lot’s wife turned into salt, for looking over her shoulder at Sodom and Gomorrah? She did this out of the natural curiosity that all humans (created in his image) possess.

Skipping forward we have Ananias and Sapphira  struck dead for lying about how much money they gave to the Jesus movement? 

Herod, struck down by an angel and eaten by worms?  God’s choice, not his own.

You free will argument is nothing more than a get out of jail free card.

Is all you have to do is read your own BIBLE where we read; Genesis 3:14  saying to the "serpent" "Because YOU have done this"<<< You see, even GOD himself states where the blame clearly lies. Right at the feet of one of his own creations that was in existence BEFORE the creation of mankind was even thought about.
But we have the likes of YOU and the Church telling us its all our fault and we can only be redeemed if we hand over all out worldly goods and hard earned take home pay........ to the Church.
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@Stephen
That will be the "free will" argument that Christians often spout.  Its hardly free will if it comes with the threat of death. Bible is full of stories about god violating free will all the time.

God denied freewill even to Jesus.
If God stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son because God felt his intentions were pure and genuine, why did God reject Jesus’s prayer to stop his sacrifice? Did he feel Jesus was not sincere?

Matthew 26:39
He prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, take this cup of suffering away from me. But let what you want be done, not what I want.”

Jesus was explicit he did not want to be sacrificed, “not what I want.”

Matthew 27:45-47 (also Mark 15:33-34) says: “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? ' that is, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

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That will be the "free will" argument that Christians often spout.  Its hardly free will if it comes with the threat of death. Bible is full of stories about god violating free will all the time.

God denied freewill even to Jesus.

Yep..  

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@Stephen
That will be the "free will" argument that Christians often spout.  Its hardly free will if it comes with the threat of death. Bible is full of stories about god violating free will all the time.

God denied freewill even to Jesus.

Yep
You might even add his mother Mary to the list of people denied freewill by God. She had no choice. God raped her.

Luke 1:26-30 The angel told her,
“Don’t be afraid, Mary. You have found favor [a] with God.
31 You will become pregnant, give birth to a son,
and name him Jesus.
32 He will be a great man
and will be called the Son of the Most High.
The Lord God will give him
the throne of his ancestor David.
33 Your son will be king of Jacob’s people forever,
and his kingdom will never end.”
34 Mary asked the angel, “How can this be? I’m a virgin.”
35 The angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come to you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.

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Has our resident Reverend had a lie-in today?
#27
Shila
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@Stephen
Has our resident Reverend had a lie-in today?
He is exercising his free will.
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@Shila
Has our resident Reverend had a lie-in today?
He is exercising his free will.

🤣🤣🤣

#29
zedvictor4
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@Stephen
Sometimes you almost seem to forget that these are just characters from archaic folk tales.
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@zedvictor4
Sometimes you almost seem to forget that these are just characters from archaic folk tales.


Not at all. I treat them as I do any character in any novel.  I scrutinise and criticise all the characters and their actions that other believe to be real, Vic.
Hope you are all  well.