This a serious question... Why do people lie?
Why do people lie?
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32
I can explain, in detail, if you'd like.
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@RationalMadman
Yeah, i would like... So please go ahead...
I don't know. Why do people post in the wrong forums?
Don't get mad at that part. You skipped the main issue at hands. Everybody lie, or have been lied to. So this related to everyone.
People lie to get what they want. That could be anything like money, respect, admiration, accolades, acceptance, to cause someone harm, to spare someone from harm, an attempt to conceal an immoral or illegal act, etc. Ultimately they want something and see lying as the way to get it.
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@TwoMan
You are Right.
For sure to "to cause someone harm" This is the best answer you put.
is a liar a liar because he lies or does he lie because he's a liar..?
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@Nd24007
Please read these three articles start-to-end. Once done, tell me anything you struggled to understand. If nothing, you will have the answer.
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@Nd24007
Self-preservation. People lie to ensure their own welfare and continuing survival. For us, honesty comes second to unmet needs.
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@Varrack
There's many examples of it being very different purpose than self defence/preservation.
It can often be purely sadistic to force the other to be on the defence and that's only one of the alternate purposes.
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@RationalMadman
Sadists are no less interested in self-preservation than you or I -- I'd allege that their sadistic desires formed as a means of preserving themselves.
I'm curious as to any specific examples you may have of self-interest not being a factor in being dishonest.
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@Nd24007
some people lie about extremely stupid shit, that people only pretend to believe to humor them. Those are the type of liars that really annoy me. My brother’s wife is one of them. I just google every retarded thing she says and immediately point out how stupid she is and then she twists it and says well I meant —insert unprovable counter retard claim—-.
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@Varrack
Lying about someone's appearance is doing so to prevent them from being hurt, not self-interest.I'm curious as to any specific examples you may have of self-interest not being a factor in being dishonest.
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@Varrack
You are wrong. On top of being sadistic and solely attacking with lies there exist lies for fun.
Most catfishes are not human traffickers, they are people who get a rise out of being loved etc and are not actually worried about the rejection of the 'real them' but are purely greedy about being a master of the art of being the fake them.
There's also examples of lying for totally non-defensive reasons that are non-attack and non-thrilling but this is by very strange people who want to test the others' ability to discover the lie among many other very eccentric people lying in many unusual scenarios.
On top of that, lying is simply having the intent to deceive and it is very important to understand that sometimes one may tell the truth out of self-preservation where lying would have been better had they had the courage. Examples include snitches, the epitome being Snowden who acted entirely against self-defense in not lying and he exposed a lie that was THE GOVERNMENT POSING AS SELF-PRESERVING while actually being quite different indeed.
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@TwoMan
No, it's to prevent guilt. If the commenter values their relationship with the other person, then they probably don't want to risk hurting it by being truthful in that instance.
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@Varrack
No, it's to prevent guilt. If the commenter values their relationship with the other person, then they probably don't want to risk hurting it by being truthful in that instance.
No. There are instances where someone genuinely cares about the feelings of others and doesn't wish to hurt them. If you can't comprehend that, you may be a sociopath.
To be clear about what I just said.
Snowden acted entirely against self-interest by lying to those who could hurt, would hurt and had Russia not enabled him basically did hurt his quality of life and reputation.
Snowden then acted further against self-interest by not enabling the government to lie in that it was posing as self-defence what was a lie for entirely malicious purposes or so he said (the truth is Snowden was only half-right, NSA really is concerned about stopping terrorists and human trafficking but is additionally concerned with pleasing the corrupt officials who keep it legal and powerful)
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@RationalMadman
People create fake online dating profiles to prevent themselves from experiencing rejection/scorn/embarrassment related to their real-life selves...their attempts to prevent harm to themselves is self-preservation.
Deceit isn't the only means of self-preservation, I agree there...so I'm not sure how the Snowden example is relevant.
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@Varrack
No, some do but not all do. You are ill-informed of non-self-preserving motives to lie. Either that or you ARE informed and are lying to fool others into seeing me as wrong which is little to do with self-preservation unless you were ignorant at first but realised you are wrong later on.
I understand you typed this while I posted the following post so I'll repeat it here:Deceit isn't the only means of self-preservation, I agree there...so I'm not sure how the Snowden example is relevant.
Snowden acted entirely against self-interest by lying to those who could hurt, would hurt and had Russia not enabled him basically did hurt his quality of life and reputation.Snowden then acted further against self-interest by not enabling the government to lie in that it was posing as self-defence what was a lie for entirely malicious purposes or so he said (the truth is Snowden was only half-right, NSA really is concerned about stopping terrorists and human trafficking but is additionally concerned with pleasing the corrupt officials who keep it legal and powerful)
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@TwoMan
There are instances where someone genuinely cares about the feelings of others and doesn't wish to hurt them.
I don't dispute this -- I'm stating that the person is also concerned about their relationship with the other person, or the other person's view of them. Either could be at stake when the commenter is truthful, which explains the reasoning behind lying.
If the commenter was not worried about how their relationship being somehow damaged/weakened, there's no reason they would be deceitful.
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@RationalMadman
How did he lie again? I thought the original point was that he was being truthful in self-defense.Snowden acted entirely against self-interest by lying to those who could hurt, would hurt and had Russia not enabled him basically did hurt his quality of life and reputation.
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@Varrack
He lied deeply, daily, to his employers and colleagues in order to attain the data he did.
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@Varrack
If the commenter was not worried about how their relationship being somehow damaged/weakened, there's no reason they would be deceitful.
Wrong again. One need not be concerned with the health of a relationship to be concerned about preserving someone's feelings (it is possible but not necessary). It's called empathy. They simply don't want to hurt the other person.
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@TwoMan
Again, self-interest and empathy are not mutually exclusive. One can be interested in another's welfare and also be trying to shield themselves from harm. That's the case with deceit...it may benefit the other party, but the ultimate goal is the preservation of the self. No one is going to hide the truth from another person if they themselves don't have something to hide, which in instances such as these, they arguably do.
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@RationalMadman
I would say then that his intention to whistleblow was mired in a need to feel morally upright. If you're working for a corporation (or in his case, the govt) that you believe is deceitful and unethical in its practices, you believe it to be in your best interest to preserve your identity as someone who is ethical and not in collaboration with egregious practices. It's like unknowingly being an accomplice of a bank robber who drives them to the bank, and then finding out after the fact that you were an accomplice. If you chose to lie to authorities later about actually being an accomplice, you're acting in self-preservation -- protection against being portrayed as someone immoral/unethical.
Self-preservation doesn't have to be obvious -- it can be very subtle in many cases, including these ones, is.
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@Varrack
I haven't got time for this semantic abuse.
If this was a real debate I'd use dictionary sources to win here, that's how ridiculous this is.
That is not self-defence or self-preservation.
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@RationalMadman
I accept your concession
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@Nd24007
This is an excellent question.
Have you found the answer?