personhood

Author: Greyparrot

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I was skimming over a WF/Bones debate about abortion, and I was thinking about the question of personhood within a moral and legal framework.

My thoughts went to an old infamous Scotus case where a man was declared property and thus could not have personhood. (Dredd Scott)

If we do not confer personhood to a 9 month old fetus, does this mean it must then be considered property as well?
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This would have huge ramifications within the moral/legal framework if the SCOTUS were to declare a fetus as "property"
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@Greyparrot
Yes, create false dichotomies which no one even believes in.

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@Best.Korea
It's a hypothetical/thought experiment.

You can ask your buddies for the definition of the word "if"
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I was skimming over a WF/Bones debate about abortion, and I was thinking about the question of personhood within a moral and legal framework.

My thoughts went to an old infamous Scotus case where a man was declared property and thus could not have personhood. (Dredd Scott)

If we do not confer personhood to a 9 month old fetus, does this mean it must then be considered property as well?
Not conferring personhood to a fetus is to deny the fetus any individual rights a person is given.
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@Greyparrot
Fetus/baby is a temporary organism of the pregnant woman.

Is a mans gonads his ' property '? Of course, depending how legal system defines property.

Are any organs of any humans their personal ' property ',  of course they are, depending on legal definitions of property.

Others sticking their nose into pregnant womans fetus/baby business is ' virtual rape '. Keep virtual nose out, unless pregnant woman gives consent. Simple.

Virtual rape stems from religious patriarchal systems of thought, not from spiritually based 1st principles.

1} Do no harm to self or others, without their consent, except in cases of self defense,

2} All-for-one and one-for-all,

3} protect personal property and that begins with the  human organism { organs of the humans } and all of the atoms, molecules etc that compose the human organism,

4} Seek relevant truths, to relevant circumstances to the  individual and the ecological environment that sustains the ecological environment,

5} Seek regulatory systems --ex GAAI--  that are directed at,  and in support of all of the above.

190 independent sovereign nations, is dumb way forward for humanity.
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Not conferring personhood to a fetus is to deny the fetus any individual rights a person is given.

— Personhood is an essential characteristic of the human species and is not a conditional state dependent upon circumstance, perception, cognition, or societal .
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@Greyparrot
It's a hypothetical/thought experiment.
I wouldnt call this an experiment. You are just trying to create false dichotomy.

You can ask your buddies for the definition of the word "if"
Thats irrelevant to your intentions.

You anti abortion guys lose every argument I can think of. Your best hope to convince the audience is that audience has low IQ.
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@ebuc
Do you believe a fetus is property? 
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@Greyparrot
See post #6 OGP.  Im very clear there if you take time to read, understand and comprehend the concepts.
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@ebuc
It seemed like you said yes. 
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@Best.Korea
You seem angry.
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Do you believe a fetus is property? 
Yes it belongs to the woman /mother who gave birth to it.
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@Shila
Thanks.
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Thanks.
Greyparrot, Why are you still blocking me?
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@Greyparrot
You seem angry.
I am always angry.
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@Greyparrot
"If we do not confer personhood to a 9 month old fetus, does this mean it must then be considered property as well?"

Maybe.
Are there only two choices?
Free individual or physical property?

Though being fully grown human, does not stop others from considering one property, in all places.
. . .

If it's not a person, is it then a 'thing?
Are all 'things property?

Dogs, water, air, trees, land,
Government/Shared public trust property?
. . .

Personally I dislike a treating of humans and their parts as property.
As well as stem cell research, and fetus corpse research.
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@Lemming
Consider this question. Is there anything that is not legally a person that you cannot legally own?
Most people would cite things the government can own but a private citizen cannot.
If the government has possession of it, it would be considered government property.

So we are left with this question:
Is there anything the government cannot legally own that is not a person?
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@Greyparrot
Nothing comes to my mind,
I think humans tend to practice ownership on anything they are around.

Though some people claim the Native Americans lacked land ownership,
Eh I say,
The concept of personal space is too fundamental for me to agree with such.
Even 'animals such as bears or hawks have territory.

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Consider this question. Is there anything that is not legally a person that you cannot legally own?
Most people would cite things the government can own but a private citizen cannot.
If the government has possession of it, it would be considered government property. 

So we are left with this question:
Is there anything the government cannot legally own that is not a person?
Government cannot legally own private property, private holdings etc.