Albums Mafia: Track Two

Author: Cerulean
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#91
WyIted
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@whiteflame
WyIted has made a point of saying before that he doesn't think it should be an SOP claim, and if he had gotten it, I think he would have pushed back harder on claiming it
Keep in mind that as a Miller I know there is an investigative role. A lot of aus on me is a good reason to claim. Usually the cop gets 1 or 2 investigations in a game, even if they are not X-shot so I didn't want them wasting their shot on me so I have a good reason to just go ahead and tell them what their result on me will be. I know I didn't visit mharman so I am not sure what the deal here is today. Behaviorally speaking I had a town read of him but mechanically, knowing I am town this makes him scum. 

I don't understand his gambit here unless he can obscure my affiliation upon death but I wasn't misdirected last NP because Casey's name was in my PM and I would be in a PM with mharman right now if I was misdirected. 

His results are wrong or he lied. 
#92
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@AustinL0926
I am clogging up the dp a lot so I will stop but from what you know of the site he came from, are there any roles that scum could potentially have that would make me and Austin both town?

Did you do something dumb like gift him a Vig shot which makes a gambit like this make sense?

Assuming we are 5-2

Mislynch/ NK = 3-2


But if you gave him a vig than it is 2-2 and a scum win

You need to out it right now if you gifted him a vig because that puts us at MYLo if that's the case and town deserves all the facts to make a decision. If you did give him a vig and you can't bring yourself to lynch him than we need to no lynch to bring us down to LYLO, where the decision will still be tough but it will at least narrow somebody's POE and be beneficial
#93
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@ILikePie5
Before he even answers. I get the feeling Austin gifted scum mharman a vig if you are town and that sort of thing gets a free pass in the endgame you are a pussy. 

After a known mislynch, gifting any sort of vig should not have happened at all
#94
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Give me a chance to hammer myself if that is the way we are going because if they can obscure my flip I can just get the mod kill by copy and pasting my PM to counteract that
#95
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Yeah ngl part of me finds it weird that wylted is dying on this hill. I feel like as scum he would have just tried to say he made a fail gambit or something. Sticking to his guns about the visit is interesting to me. If wylted does flip innocent we should look into the idea that there is a busdriver or something. If a busdriver flipped wylted and someone else, then what he is saying is possible. I don't think we dismiss the results on that slim theory, but I am just suggesting that if for some reason wylted is innocent, we don't just turn around and flip mharman, because on the flipside, it also makes no sense for mharman to to risk a gamble like that as mafia.
#96
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@Lunatic
I was told Casey in my PM by name. Would a bus driver cause this
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#97
Cerulean
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Day 2, Votecount 1

Approximately 61 hours and 20 minutes remain.

WyIted: 3 (Mharman, Pie, Whiteflame)
Mharman: 1 (WyIted)

Majority is 4.

I've received questions in messages such that I would like to remind everyone to read the Day 1 OP and the flips carefully.
#98
whiteflame
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Only skimmed so far, too early for me to fully read and get all this. I’ll unvote since it seems people are good with using the DP to have some discussion and I’d like to at least hear WyIted out before anyone hammers.
#99
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@whiteflame
I’d like to at least hear WyIted out before anyone hammers
There is nothing else to hear unless you think there is some information I am aware of that could change minds. 

With that said I think my reads are decent and if I reread the last dp and this more seriously that I can at least be of some benefit to town by dropping some analysis prior to death. The meta here is to ignore dead players generally as stupid as that is, because as we all know dead players are the most honest and trustworthy 
#100
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Some non impaxtgul Clarification that I shouldnt even share because it is literally non impact full. 

The mod clarified that instead of saying 'casey" my message should have said "your target"

But that the part that said my message couldn't be opened because the recipient is dead is intentional. So unless they can redirect me to GP it means the same thing
#101
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There is the possibility that the scum team botched that I was told who my target was. Which would indicate the scum team was recently online and mad about a soon to be town confirmed player being able to definitively show mharman was lying. 

#102
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Given that lunatic was the one to say "maybe we shouldn't install lynch mharman next dp" I think it indicates some frustration that the most town read scum player is now in an unwinnable position
#103
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Install = insta 
#104
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@Mharman
Bro you were town read andvi was the likely lynch anyway. Why did you donit
#105
WyIted
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Let this be a lesson to scum. You don't have to make a mislynch happen you can literally just let shit play out. Mharman's mistake was forcing it
#106
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@WyIted
Keep in mind that as a Miller I know there is an investigative role. A lot of aus on me is a good reason to claim. Usually the cop gets 1 or 2 investigations in a game, even if they are not X-shot so I didn't want them wasting their shot on me so I have a good reason to just go ahead and tell them what their result on me will be.
I recognize that you had a good deal of sus on you, but you didn't have a lot of votes. The most votes it looks like you ever had on you was 2, so I wouldn't say you were ever pressured enough to effectively force your hand. If your goal was just to prevent a potential Cop from using their role, why wait until that late in the DP to claim? 

I know I didn't visit mharman so I am not sure what the deal here is today. Behaviorally speaking I had a town read of him but mechanically, knowing I am town this makes him scum. 

I don't understand his gambit here unless he can obscure my affiliation upon death but I wasn't misdirected last NP because Casey's name was in my PM and I would be in a PM with mharman right now if I was misdirected. 

His results are wrong or he lied. 
There could be some fuckery going on here, but if you actually used a Neighborizer, got confirmation that you were successful, but have no one in chat with you, then as I see it there are a bunch of options.

1) You're lying.
2) There's a hidden role at play in either your or Mharman's roles and it's modifying the result.
3) Scum have a role that's changing what Mharman's role is perceiving.
4) He's lying about his role.

At least for now, I'm ruling out #4. I don't think Mharman would choose to make this a heads up when, as you've said, circumstances didn't really require it - you were already being sussed. I believe his claim. I haven't heard of a way to obscure affiliation on death, but that's really the only way your flip doesn't put him in the crosshairs.


I know you've mentioned a few times that there's the possibility that the game ends next DP, which does exist, but that's not really going to affect what happens now. Someone's going to get lynched, so it's kind of a given that we have to accept that risk.
#107
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@whiteflame
Not next dp. His gambit makes sense if we ate at mylo
#108
whiteflame
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@WyIted
Not next dp. His gambit makes sense if we ate at mylo
I guess, I just don't agree that that's the only explanation - that there's some double-kill mechanic that scum is aware of and will use this NP. I understand how you got to that conclusion, even if I don't think it's the most likely reason for his claim.

#109
WyIted
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@whiteflame
Why would mharman start by asking who visited Casey? My theory is that he was planning to claim watcher or something but changed his mind and then started to shift and who visited him.

The mod must have been bitched at for mentioning that my action on Casey was successful though no PM was necessary.  That's the only reason he would correct it to "player targeted is dead" in the PM. 

The original plan for mharman was to say 2 people visited Casey so if I flip innocent he had the other person to mislynch the next dp, he saw this wouldn't work so had to quickly and without much forfought claim he was randomly some sort of self watcher.  Why else switch from asking who visited Casey to who visited him?

Also whoever bitched to the mod was online just prior to me posting what I did which just leaves I believe you and lunatic. 

From everyone's perspective this should be 1 v 1 and anyone claiming it isn't should be sussed because no other explanation exists for mharman not only switching claims by asking who else visited Casey to then himself. It is simply not possible for their to be a role here that could trick him
#110
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Just because it is excusable to get this vote wrong, doesn't mean we have to. We can still lynch mharman
#111
whiteflame
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@WyIted
Why would mharman start by asking who visited Casey? My theory is that he was planning to claim watcher or something but changed his mind and then started to shift and who visited him.
That's one interpretation. Mine is that he knew people would lie responding to that, and followed up with the question about who visited him expecting some lies in response with the aim being that the second question would be where he turned the tables. Maybe he was planning to claim Watcher, but if so, his decision not to is perplexing. That would have been an easy way to secure a lynch as well.

The mod must have been bitched at for mentioning that my action on Casey was successful though no PM was necessary.  That's the only reason he would correct it to "player targeted is dead" in the PM. 
This is starting to get a little strange to me. So your argument is that scum had knowledge of the response that you received somehow, rather than Cerulean just realizing that he'd given you too much information and attempting to correct for that.

The original plan for mharman was to say 2 people visited Casey so if I flip innocent he had the other person to mislynch the next dp, he saw this wouldn't work so had to quickly and without much forfought claim he was randomly some sort of self watcher.  Why else switch from asking who visited Casey to who visited him?
How did he come to this conclusion? Your argument has shifted now from this is MYLO to he was seeking two mislynches and mysteriously decided not to do it for reasons. As for asking about Casey, it makes sense if his focus was on you. You claimed to have visited Casey. He asked if others had visited Casey to show that no one else who claimed to be town had. He wouldn't have expected to get an answer in the affirmative from anyone who was scum, but it could be helpful to know that Casey had multiple claimed visitors vs. just one.

Also whoever bitched to the mod was online just prior to me posting what I did which just leaves I believe you and lunatic. 
Still not clear anyone did this, and if they did, it's unclear that they had the kind of inside information that you're claiming they did about your PMs.

From everyone's perspective this should be 1 v 1 and anyone claiming it isn't should be sussed because no other explanation exists for mharman not only switching claims by asking who else visited Casey to then himself. It is simply not possible for their to be a role here that could trick him
I disagree that Mharman shifted claims. There was certainly a different direction I expected him to take based on his question about Casey, and Watcher was what I expected, but that doesn't mean that that was his fake claim and he changed it last minute. The question itself may have been softing, or it might have been a misdirect aimed at getting information about who visited Mharman himself by hinting that he wouldn't know. I can see him doing this as town, so while it's possible that he just fucked up and then changed tacks for no apparent reason, it's not the most plausible explanation from where I'm sitting.

#112
WyIted
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This is starting to get a little strange to me. So your argument is that scum had knowledge of the response that you received somehow,
I literally stated in this thread he called Casey by name so obviously they complained after that point
#113
whiteflame
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@WyIted
I literally stated in this thread he called Casey by name so obviously they complained after that point
So you received the updated PM after you posted that?

#114
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@whiteflame
Yes
#115
Earth
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Looks like Mhar was telling the truth. 
VTL Wylted
#116
WyIted
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I assume I am getting lynched. I just don't want you guys to get gas lit next DP.

I actually just thought of a situation where he could get false information. I am asking the mod right now if that could have happened, but my theory where mharman could be town is really far fetched unless the mod answers my question in an unexpected way
#117
WyIted
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Somebody ask the mod if somebody compulsively visits themselves if they could be redirected to somebody else or if the redirection would fail
#118
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@Cerulean
It is so silly to draw this out so

unvote VTL wylted

don't let mharman gas light you guys next DP
#119
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@WyIted
Alright. I do find it odd that scum would bitch about that particular result when the options were literally you have someone in chat with you or you don't. Getting roleblocked, successfully targeting Casey or somehow getting redirected to GP all result in the same outcome, and we know that no other redirection happened because you don't have someone in chat with you, so if someone complained, I'm not sure what the aim of doing so would be.

Going to take a break from this for now, but I'll think about it.
#120
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@whiteflame
We are in twilight. Don't be gas lit next dp