Coming from ME, this is saying something; I now prefer Trump to Harris

Author: RemyBrown

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Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Because Rogan will tell Trump straight to his face exactly as he did on the podcast: "You say some crazy shit man"

Kamala isn't prepared for that level of honesty.
This is just stupid.

If you think running for president, debating on national television, taking questions at town halls from voters, going on Fox news as a democrat... All pale in comparison to sitting down with Joe Rogan you are demented.

I also doubt you would respond as well if Rogan told you that you say crazy shit, like "The Democrat party cares about me"
Why? This is such an easy thing to deal with. If someone told me I say crazy shit is respond with "like what" and then explain why what I said isn't what they're making it out to be.

Or I could just act like Trump same pretend everything I said was great, look at all the people who agree with me, and if you don't you're a lunatic hater and loser.

I haven't seen any of the Rogan interview so I'd love to know how close I came.
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@Double_R
I haven't seen any of the Rogan interview so I'd love to know how close I came.
I would have thought you of all people would have appreciated the honesty of Rogan telling Trump to his face that he(Trump) says some crazy shit.

Double_R
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@RemyBrown
Trump or Harris going to battleground states/battleground people (like Joe Rogan) takes courage because Rogan's audience is much more independently leaning;
Running for president is the most invasive venture any human being could ever embark on. Every thing  you've ever done in your life is subject to world wide scrutiny and every word you speak will be played on an endless loop if  you screw up so I really don't know why this narrative convinces you. Why you seem to think Joe Rogan is so much more intimidating than everyone else on planet earth. But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.

Alright; if Harris believes these things, then why doesn't she go on JRE's podcast and defend those views?
For the same reason she along with every presidential candidate does anything they do this close to an election; because they along with their team calculated that there is a more effective use of their time.

What difference does any of this make to my question? You said you don't take any of her claims seriously, and yet the claims you are talking about are being made pretty much everywhere in the country including many times on this site.

The claim that Trump is fascist is proven by playing his actual words that he has publicly uttered many times before. Plus the fact that the people he appointed and worked side by side with him are telling us this is who he is behind the scenes as well. So why do you care what Kamala tells you to believe, do you not have your own opinions?

She'd rather tour with Beyonce (which doesn't win too much support because everyone can assume Beyonce would be a Harris supporter
But not every Harris supporter will go out and vote, neither will every Trump supporter. Undecided voters at this point in the campaign are a tiny sliver of the population, what's far more important at this stage is energizing your voters to go out and cast a ballot. Touring with Beyonce is a great way to accomplish that. Like I said, it's all a political calculation, has little to nothing to do with how scared they are of Joe Rogan.

You would say that about anyone who disagrees with you on who's better, Trump or Harris, so, yawn....
I say that about anyone actively demonstrating a deficiency in the basic principals of critical thinking. One of which is recognizing that the person making the argument is irrelevant to the argument itself.
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@Greyparrot
I would have thought you of all people would have appreciated the honesty of Rogan telling Trump to his face that he(Trump) says some crazy shit.
I do, had nothing to do with anything I've said
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@Double_R
If you think running for president, debating on national television, taking questions at town halls from voters, going on Fox news as a democrat... All pale in comparison to sitting down with Joe Rogan you are demented.

Apples to Oranges. Rogan isn't a show where you get to filibuster talking points for 3 hours. You have to actually talk like a human being. You won't see any other outlet demand this. You also have to be able to not go crazy or have PTSD when Rogan says you are full of shit. Again, you won't see any other outlet do that.
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Ah, so of all of the intimidating things one has to endure about running for president, nothing is as terrifying as going on the Joe Rogan podcast.

This is so pathetic.
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 nothing is as terrifying as going on the Joe Rogan podcast.

Apparently.
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@Greyparrot
We need anarchy. We dont need Trump.

If Trump is a savior, who is going to save us from saviors?
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@Best.Korea
Ai will
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
nothing is as terrifying as going on the Joe Rogan podcast.
Apparently.
Apparently... when you have lost all connection with reality. This is what TDS actually looks like.
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@Double_R
Cool, that's your explanation for Kamala's decision. Noted.
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@RemyBrown
You would benefit from exercising a bit more critical thinking as you assess which candidate would be better for the country.
You would say that about anyone who disagrees with you on who's better, Trump or Harris, so, yawn...
You honestly lack critical thinking skills. Even when we agree on things, you usually agree with me due to shit reasoning and just getting lucky with your conclusion. 

It is a failure of logic. If you want I Wil go through some of your arguments and only analyze the format not the conclusions.

I am not preaching. I have made a few flaws myself. The majority of the time I make one I am aware of which one I am making but just am trying to incite an argument against that position. Here are some issues you seem to have.


1. Over generalization fallacy.

2. False dichotomy

3. Strawman fallacy

I can give you some tips. To combat the strawman just stellar your opponents argument and then attack the steelman. You shouldn't steelman in an actual debate but outside of competition you should.

To combat the false dichotomy you should apply what's known as "DBT" skills. Think about how the opposite of what you are saying could be true. 

For example in a recent thread I said Democrats were burning ballet boxes in a red area, but by applying DBT skills I could theorize that it could also be anarchists, mistaken Republicans thinking it is a blue area or accelerationists. 

The over generalization can also be resolved with DBT skills 

The DBT skills and steelmanning would go a long way at improving your critical thinking. 

With that said Double R has no room to talk about critical thinking skills. He literally only consumes left leaning media and then puts his hands over his ears and chants lalalalla to hear and understand opinions he disagrees with. 
RemyBrown
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You say that about anyone who expresses an opinion or gives an argument, so, yawn....
When I do it, it goes after both sides.  When most people do it; they say, "Become democrat (or a RINO)" or, "Become republican (or a DINO)".

I tend to respect any ethos that is consistently, "Pro (something undeniably good)" or, "Anti (something undeniably bad)" even if it's not my own.
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@RemyBrown
You say that about anyone who expresses an opinion or gives an argument, so, yawn....
When I do it, it goes after both sides. 
Unfortunately for you the two sides are:
A: You, who has no idea how logic works
B: The people you are annoying with your fallacies

So no you don't do it to both sides. You are always accusing someone else besides yourself of being biased.
RemyBrown
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@Double_R
Every thing  you've ever done in your life is subject to world wide scrutiny and every word you speak will be played on an endless loop if  you screw up so I really don't know why this narrative convinces you.
Whether a Harris flaw is  something as harmless as speeding or something as serious as giving someone HIV (or same for Trump), this election demonstrated that MAGA won't change their minds on Trump (and vice versa for the dems).  

Bernie Sanders was accused of having r@pe fantasies; nobody who initially liked him cared.  Tim Waltz has a DUI to his name; the people that like him don't care.

Why you seem to think Joe Rogan is so much more intimidating than everyone else on planet earth. But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.
Not intimidating; but influencial.  If Obama, Jay Z, DeSantis, or Kid Rock endorses someone, it changes virtually nobody's minds.  Joe Rogan endorses someone; a bunch of people change their minds.  Same with RFK; if he backed Harris, then it would have helped Harris in the election; she might be at D+9 by now (initially D+5, but Trump would get angrier and more unhinged, boosting Harris'es numbers).  But he backed Trump; so that made the election close.

For the same reason she along with every presidential candidate does anything they do this close to an election; because they along with their team calculated that there is a more effective use of their time.
How is Beyonce more effective than Rogan?  Virtually every big Beyonce fan is voting for Harris; her fan base is black urban women.  The ones that like Trump won't change their minds and are willing to listen to an artist they disagree with.

I listen to Billy Joel sometimes; he could endorse Trump or Harris; it won't change my support; but I'd still listen to his music.

Rogan is not like that at all to a lot of people.

You said you don't take any of her claims seriously, and yet the claims you are talking about are being made pretty much everywhere in the country including many times on this site.
Yes; but in terms of the evidence for and against those facts, I don't expect randos here left or right to have all the facts to defend their position.  I'm sure some people are fast; but I wouldn't place them in a 100 meter Olympic dash.  I would save that for the people who actually train and make that their life's work.

Harris is the one who has to actually train and make good arguments for her positions that she can tell Rogan.  Same with Trump.  For anyone who's a supporter of either; training (ie research) is optional; so they're less likely to do it nearly as well.

The claim that Trump is fascist is proven by playing his actual words that he has publicly uttered many times before.
Those words Harris can state on Rogan and Rogan would provide decent counters that Harris would be expected to be able to rebuttal.

Plus the fact that the people he appointed and worked side by side with him are telling us this is who he is behind the scenes as well.
Why Trump has a high turnover rate; I don't know.  Harris can bring up this point in a Rogan interview.  See what Rogan says; if he can't say anything and endorses Harris, then it will help Harris in the polls (which she needs at this point).

So why do you care what Kamala tells you to believe, do you not have your own opinions?
I do, but I am not going to put as much effort into them as someone who's litterally running for POTUS.  Just like I may run occasionally, I'm not going to put in as much effort as the top 5 active marathoners.

But not every Harris supporter will go out and vote, neither will every Trump supporter. Undecided voters at this point in the campaign are a tiny sliver of the population, what's far more important at this stage is energizing your voters to go out and cast a ballot. 
This is a good point; I just think most people are as energized enough to vote for either candidate if they support them.  If you're energized on September 1 to vote Trump out; then it's likely that lasts for 2 months.  In the 2020 election, there was the least amount of state by state swing out of any election since 2000, and Trump was running against someone many thought had dementia.  People have largely made up their minds, and even though the undecided voters are a small part of the population, they are the annexable ones and should be treated as such.


RemyBrown
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You are always accusing someone else besides yourself of being biased.
It would be projection if I did that.

Everyone has a bias.

I accuse people of being partisan hacks, of being sheep (for the republican media machine), and for not speaking their truth (democrat party machine).

But people don't have the IQ to actually buck orthodoxy with their party and that's unfixable, so anytime I hear Double R talk I think, "Liberals saying liberal things".  Vice versa for GP.

Even the libertarians do this (which is why I loosely call myself libertarian; I disagree with the party a lot) (death penalty and electoral college; 2 examples).

The libertarians take an unjustifiable position here:


In addition, the electoral college is Affirmitive Action to marginalized groups (called states with small population counts).  A National Popular Vote is the only way to not have a diversity quota for states won.  If you're worried this will give the left an advantage, then I would be fine with raising the voting age to 21 to balence things out.
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@RemyBrown
Everyone has a bias.
Your bias is that you think you are smart enough to dismiss people for being party loyalist but you aren't.

You don't understand arguments, you don't understand fallacies, and you don't care about evidence.

You are in no position to know the difference between blind dogma and an argument you do not understand (or pretend to not understand).
RemyBrown
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Your bias is that you think you are smart enough to dismiss people for being party loyalist but you aren't.
I've never seen DoubleR buck orthodoxy with his party (or Dr. Franklin).  

Dr. Franklin said in 3 days that Trump does not support Project 2025 and when he was told that if Trump did, then Dr. Franklin would agree, then Dr. Franklin said he would.

All it takes is for Trump to endorse the KKK and the MAGA right will become klansmen.  All it takes is for Harris to say, "All right wing speech is hate speech; it's discriminatory to people of color, women, the LGBTQIA+, and poor communities.  Ban right wing speech." and then her base becomes anti first amendment.
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@RemyBrown
Your bias is that you think you are smart enough to dismiss people for being party loyalist but you aren't.
I've never seen DoubleR buck orthodoxy with his party
I've seen you use the genetic fallacy many times, often in combination with false dichotomies and oversimplifications.


Dr. Franklin said in 3 days that Trump does not support Project 2025 and when he was told that if Trump did, then Dr. Franklin would agree, then Dr. Franklin said he would.
What are you even saying?

Seriously it's hard to parse.

If you're claiming that Dr. Franklin can't simultaneously agree with project 2025 and recognize that Trump has not embraced it as a policy platform at the same time then this is yet another example of your false dichotomies and rabid over simplification leading you and no one else into confusion.
RemyBrown
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I've seen you use the genetic fallacy many times
How am I using a fallacy?

If you're claiming that Dr. Franklin can't simultaneously agree with project 2025 and recognize that Trump has not embraced it as a policy platform at the same time then this is yet another example of your false dichotomies
If you agree with project 2025 and I accuse Trump of wanting to enact it, then you say, "Project 2025 is good because ...".  Saying, "Trump isn't pro Project 2025." only makes sense if you don't agree with project 2025 (or you do, but you want to hide that support which is just decietful).
ADreamOfLiberty
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@RemyBrown
I've seen you use the genetic fallacy many times
How am I using a fallacy?
Google it. (I know you don't actually care so I won't pretend to care)


If you're claiming that Dr. Franklin can't simultaneously agree with project 2025 and recognize that Trump has not embraced it as a policy platform at the same time then this is yet another example of your false dichotomies
If you agree with project 2025 and I accuse Trump of wanting to enact it, then you say, "Project 2025 is good because ...".  Saying, "Trump isn't pro Project 2025." only makes sense if you don't agree with project 2025 (or you do, but you want to hide that support which is just decietful).
Ok so we have two premises:

A.) I agree with project 2025
B.) You accuse Trump of wanting to enact it, i.e. you assert "Trump is pro project 2025"

Round II:

C.) I give reasons project 2025 is good.


Saying, "Trump isn't pro Project 2025." only makes sense if you don't agree with project 2025 (or you do, but you want to hide that support which is just decietful).
"Trump isn't pro project" 2025 = ~B.
"You don't agree with project 2025" = ~A

So Franklin says A, you say B, Franklin says ~B and you say "therefore ~A"

Thus you are claiming:
If ~B then ~A.

Justify that. Back into full sentences:

If Trump isn't pro project 2025, then I don't agree with project 2025.

Why?
Double_R
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@RemyBrown
Yes; but in terms of the evidence for and against those facts, I don't expect randos here left or right to have all the facts to defend their position.  I'm sure some people are fast; but I wouldn't place them in a 100 meter Olympic dash.  I would save that for the people who actually train and make that their life's work.

Harris is the one who has to actually train and make good arguments for her positions
This is yet again, another demonstration of a lack of critical thinking skills. Arguments stand or fall on their own merit and it’s up to each individual to assess them as such. All you’re doing here is concocting an excuse to not have to do your own research on anything and just base your worldview on whatever the candidates tell you. That is a recipe for manipulation.

Moreover, you’re just wrong on your characterization. Candidates focus on the skills  they need to win elections. Being a great debater is low on the list, especially since political debates are rarely anything more than just rehashed talking points. The truth is you’re far more likely to see better, more complete and definitely more nuanced arguments on sites like this one where people are talking to each other and not to the cameras. Candidates focus on being likable, trustworthy, and conveying their values to like minded individuals because that’s what wins elections. That’s an entirely different skill set.

Those words Harris can state on Rogan and Rogan would provide decent counters that Harris would be expected to be able to rebuttal.
The accuracy and legitimacy of the case is not impacted by Harris’s ability to provide an effective rebuttal.

I am not going to put as much effort into them as someone who's litterally running for POTUS.
She’s trying to accomplish many more things than just providing a legitimate rebuttal, so if you’re looking for the best arguments this isn’t the place to be.

 If you are looking for a strong case that Trump is a fascist this video was pretty good, definitely way better and more in depth than anything Harris would waste her time putting together.

People have largely made up their minds, and even though the undecided voters are a small part of the population, they are the annexable ones and should be treated as such.
Again, the biggest block of gettable voters at this point in the campaign are the ones who have a preferred candidate but may stay home instead.  As the saying goes, the choice is not just between Kamala and Trump, it’s between Kamala, Trump and the couch, and sadly in America the couch is nearly undefeated.

Going on Joe Rogan would be good, but it is not unreasonable in the slightest to think there are better ways to spend her time now which have nothing to do with her being intimidated.