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@Castin
I know shame on me, we're allowed to cross over for the purposes of recruiting only.
Atheist only thread.
Posts
Total:
137
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@keithprosser
I think it covered the usual territory of "spiritual".I don't see how I could give you any answer a dictionary couldn't.I'd hardly say Harris gave a dictionary definition there, Cas.
But I took your original question as asking the difference between "spiritual" and "nice" in a broad sense, not in the context of Harris's book.
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@disgusted
Not very surprising, godists believe the universe revolves around them. Witchy will be screaming obscenities into her cauldron.
I find it pretty surprising. Really did not expect that a theist would post in the atheist thread before an atheist posted in the theist thread.
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@Castin
Really did not expect that a theist would post in the atheist thread before an atheist posted in the theist thread.
I've been known to be a rebel lol.
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@EtrnlVw
I know shame on me, we're allowed to cross over for the purposes of recruiting only.
Ah I see. 😉
How do you determine your targets of recruitment?
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@Castin
N/A.
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@SkepticalOne
I have a hard time following Same down this road. It seems to me meditation can be immensely beneficial. Where he and I part ways (I believe) is that I would view enjoying art, hiking, listening to music (and other things which can induce a calm introspection) to be meditation. I imagine he wants an activity a little more structured/devoted?
So far I haven't read anything that could be called an explicit rebuke of such methods.
But when you meditate, you're supposed to be trying not to think. Or at least, that's the kind of meditation Harris is advocating. So if those activities are making you think, if they're occupying your mind, it's probably not really true meditation. Or true mindfulness, which he describes as a state of clear undistracted attention to the contents of consciousness. Although I do think pleasant and calming activities can certainly put one in a semi-meditative state.
In the book, Harris says, "Most people who think they're meditating are really just thinking with their eyes closed."
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@EtrnlVw
Bad to the boneReally did not expect that a theist would post in the atheist thread before an atheist posted in the theist thread.I've been known to be a rebel lol.
B-b-b-b-b-b-bad
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@Castin
What is the point of 'not thinking'?
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@SkepticalOne
Cultivating this quality of mind has been shown to reduce pain, anxiety, and depression; improve cognitive function; and even produce changes in gray matter density in regions of the brain related to learning and memory, emotional regulation, and self-awareness.
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@SkepticalOne
I think it may have physiological effects, such as lowering the level of adrenaline(?), which might be genuinely beneficial.
As I understand it, the objective of 'mindful meditation' is 'to be aware of awareness', ie not being aware of anything except awareness itself. If you find yourself starting to be aware of - or thinking about - anything in particular you should let that thought drift away and return to 'reflexive awareness'.
Absolute 'awareness of awareness' is impossible (at least to begin with) so Harris (and many other advocates of 'mindfulness') recommend 'breathing' as the subject of any thoughts you have, but that isn't the end point or goal; the ultimate ojective is being aware of awareness irself, not of being aware of what one is aware of in the naive sense. That way you come to appreciate the most important thing (the only important thing?) is awareness itself and all other considerations are distractions. One comes to learn peace and contentent resides in the fact one is aware - ie a conscious being - not in anything material or worldly.
What you are aware of in the world may be painful or ugly, but that you are aware of it at all is a precious gift.
--->@keithprosser; Castin
Thank you for the information.
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@disgusted
It is interesting that you don't like the idea of an eternal existence because it seems pointless, when that is the same reason that theists give for not liking the idea of a universe without God.
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@Stronn
Being pointless is a reason not to like something but not a reason to think it isn't so.
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@keithprosser
True enough, which was why I found it interesting that disgusting used it as a reason to dismiss the idea of eternal life.
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@disgusted
Calling a belief that you can survive death a caveman's idea is just shutting yourself off and acting arrogantly in that you know and anyone that thinks otherwise is stupid.. that's essentially what you're saying. So it's no wonder why i am construing that you hate something about this claim. Bc "everything dies" isn't a very good reason to convince me otherwise of its possibility... at all. Of course everything dies, but what is dying? What is life? Are we all really alive right now or are we inside of a dream that is inside of a dream? Is everything a manifestation of an infinite consciousness? Etc. Etc. There are plenty of good hypothesis which implications would be life after death. And no one, including modern science, has debunked its possibility. So the only reason one would shut themselves of to it is bc there is something they hate about it... That's why i'm curious to know what your reason is bc 'everything dies' is really not that good.What would make you claim I hate anything. Your continuous eternal life results in "why even be here" meaninglessness for eternity what a wonderful thought. Everything that has ever lived on this rock has died because that is life, you for some insane reason refuse to believe that and instead claim that they are still alive. How could you possibly come to that conclusion. In reference to an earlier post where you claimed not to know what caveman I referred to, it's every caveman who ever invented gods and afterlife's.
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@Stronn
There is no point to a universe without gods, it just is.
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@Outplayz
Not really. It stems fromthe view that life and consciousness are physical processes. When the body or brain breaks life and consciousness cease, just as the current from a dynamo ceases if it breaks.the only reason one would shut themselves of to it[ie life after death] is bc there is something they hate about it..
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@keithprosser
Not really. It stems fromthe view that life and consciousness are physical processes. When the body or brain breaks life and consciousness cease, just as the current from a dynamo ceases if it breaks.
Yeah, i shouldn't have said it like that since that is the main reason there i'm agnostic. It "looks" quite convincing. But i think once someone tells you about all of the philosophy, all of the experiences, all of the possibilities... if you're still like nah, you're wrong death is death... i think that person has something against the possibility.
In any case, look at this story i'm reading this morning. The story itself is pretty convincing it's not a fake, but more importantly... read the top comments. Experience after experience, and literally only one needs to be true for the implications to be wild.
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@Outplayz
I've lost 4 grandparents, 2 parents and a wife but I've never seen a ghost. But I know how much people want to because I'm human too - bereavement is not easy.
Consider all the people who have died... and not one unequivocal example of a ghost.
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@keithprosser
I've lost 4 grandparents, 2 parents and a wife but I've never seen a ghost. But I know how much people want to because I'm human too - bereavement is not easy.Consider all the people who have died... and not one unequivocal example of a ghost.
If you can read all of those comments and the only thing that comes to your mind is that "you haven't seen it"... i mean come on man, really..You can't see how that sounds? Furthermore, there may be reasons why you can't see it or shouldn't. That's one thing about spirituality... it's intelligent. It would know if it's a benefit or detriment to the person that gets knowledge of it. Or it just might be the condition in which you are here if taking the game analogy again... you manifest here not being able to sense these things by choice. There are many reasons why if you think about them... But overall, we cannot at this point in human history have proof of an afterlife... it has to be elusive and unproven. It would make sense then, why it doesn't happen to everyone. So there cannot be unequivocal examples, but there are examples.
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@keithprosser
I was at work and couldn't add some more thoughts... i've never seen a ghost either. Although i've had experiences where they could suggest ghost stuff, i've never seen one. So i know how you feel. I read all that and thought no way too. My first reaction is skepticism. But there are a lot of accounts that we call delusion, a lot of pictures we call fake or not clear enough, a lot of sounds or etc., we just ignore. The anecdotal accounts are suggesting there might be something there bc that comment section isn't even close to how many people have these experiences plus a variety of different experiences than just "ghosts."
Anyways, i had a question i thought of after i posted real fast... Wouldn't you say that picture, if true, is pretty good evidence? I was wonder what you would consider unequivocal?
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@Outplayz
I don't want to specify any particular criteria; I'd try to be open to a wide range of evidence. But the story strikes me to be a demonstration of the power of grief and wishful thining rather than ghosts.
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@keithprosser
The story has a picture. If that picture is real, that's pretty impressive. And the crazier part is the camera caught something and notified her. This is probably one of the best stories i've seen regarding apparitions. But i wasn't only talking about the story, did you read the comment section? I usually follow comments to see trends and it's fun sometimes, i've never seen so many people come out with stories. Bc usually the comment section will say how it's fake. But i guess the story is convincing enough for people to open up.
I don't know if you're really getting the implications. Literally, only one story needs to be true for ghosts to be true. Just one needs to have really happened. If you are going to say it is all grief and delusion... than i don't think even if you witnessed a ghost you would be convinced. I think for you, a ghost has to manifest, sit down, and have a conversation about the afterlife with you. While of course it is being recorded so you don't later think you were being deluded. Is that fair to say? Bc i really don't think you are open to this stuff at all.
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@Outplayz
What was your belief before the movie the Matrix was made? Or aren't you that old? Why do you people always use fictional stories and fictional characters to support the fiction you believe in, do you realise how much man made fiction you people present in your attempts to justify your beliefs?
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@Outplayz
I think for you, a ghost has to manifest, sit down, and have a conversation about the afterlife with you.
Then please stop making assumptions! I don't know what would convince me, but a glowy blur and a handful internetter comments falls short of 'proof'. I'd hate to be convicted of murder on that sort of evidence!
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@Outplayz
I found this pretty convincing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOvWGuQTowIn any case, look at this story i'm reading this morning. The story itself is pretty convincing it's not a fake, but more importantly... read the top comments. Experience after experience, and literally only one needs to be true for the implications to be wild.
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@disgusted
I have had the same suspicions for a really long time... even before the movie Matrix. Actually, Matrix type platforms don't make much sense to me to be what's going on anyways. And of course the only thing that will line up with metaphysical beliefs is fiction, they are both the same in a sense. I just use analogies to show its possibility. Bc that's really all you can do short of proof at this point.What was your belief before the movie the Matrix was made? Or aren't you that old? Why do you people always use fictional stories and fictional characters to support the fiction you believe in, do you realise how much man made fiction you people present in your attempts to justify your beliefs?
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@keithprosser
I never said any of that is proof. I am well aware there is absolutely no proof for that would need for a repeatable type of evidence which we don't have. All i'm saying is that all that can be put in the category of evidence. You do what you will with it. Some atheists are more open-minded some are not, i don't fault you for being either or bc in the end of the day there is no proof for me to present. To me, personally, all of that and more makes it sufficient enough reason to suspect an afterlife or some kind of extra dimensional stuff we aren't aware of. You can believe what you will bc i don't think it will be easy for you to be convinced either way unless it's proof. I don't think that is an unfair assumption to make bc you are making it pretty clear you won't accept anecdotal accounts. And that is the bulk of the only direct evidence we have.Then please stop making assumptions! I don't know what would convince me, but a glowy blur and a handful internetter comments falls short of 'proof'. I'd hate to be convicted of murder on that sort of evidence!
... in regards to the murder thing... a picture of a murderer holding a dead person and accounts by a person that saw him/her do it... very likely could lead to a conviction. I work in property damage and pictures are the bulk of the evidence we use to win cases. Pictures and video tapes are very important evidence to have.
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@3RU7AL
People are at their most reliable shortly after being slammed into the ground from 2000 feet. I'm surprised major head trauma isn't compulsory for witnesses in murder trials.