Bet they can't do it. They hate theists too much.
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38
Don't even look in here guys
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@janesix
Aww yeeahh Booyeeee….do the Theist dance!!
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@Polytheist-Witch
They hate theists too much.
You woulda never guessed it, they can't stay away from us....well I can't stay away them either, love hate relationship.
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@EtrnlVw
I do other than here. Not in my home, not in my life, not on my religion forums. Yet here they are like lice.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Even though many of them mock us there is a deep part of them that should be interested. I mean it's not like they have no soul, its just that aspect of themselves needs to be developed, they are still a part of the Creator. Too bad everything always has to be some war or protest, that is the part I like least about all of it.
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@EtrnlVw
I used to care and was even pretty nice. Then I came online and found out what they all think. When I asked my "friends" about stuff it was, well not you. Your ok. I just can't respect a one of them. Not a one.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Were you ever an atheist? or did you always have a sense of spirituality on some level?
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@EtrnlVw
I was until I was 20 then for a period of two years about 13 years ago. I had no connection to god at all, sure none existed. Now I have always believed in a soul because I believe in the dead and have seen a few. But god was pretty foreign until college. My parent showed no inkling to religion and we never went to any type of service or really discussed god/ gods.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I was until I was 20 then for a period of two years about 13 years ago. I had no connection to god at all, sure none existed. Now I have always believed in a soul because I believe in the dead and have seen a few.
That's cool, I've seen a few too. That is rare, most people get freaked out by that. If I may ask, what got you into the whole spiritual thing? was it any one source that enlightened you?
My parent showed no inkling to religion and we never went to any type of service or really discussed god/ gods.
Interesting, did you grow up in America? where I was raised pretty much everyone had some kind of "Christian" heritage, or their parents were.. back then it was just a label really, no kid or even parent rarely exemplified it in any way. If you sat in church every so often I guess you were considered a Christian lol. Funny enough I fell in love with the Gospels at a very young age, I thought of Jesus as a hero I would apply all the things He taught.
Now I examine more than a single source, pull from many sources of information including my own experiences.
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@EtrnlVw
That's cool, I've seen a few too. That is rare, most people get freaked out by that. If I may ask, what got you into the whole spiritual thing? was it any one source that enlightened you?
Initially I think believing in ghosts sparked it. I got into tarot reading and what I would now call light spell work as a teen. One I left for college not much happened. Then I had an actually full on "salvation experience" in college. But I was surround by Christianity. I still didn't read the Bible for decades and had my own views on god and Jesus that I assumed were right. Second time I started meditation and holistic stuff that lead to the gods I work with now.
Interesting, did you grow up in America?
Yes. Still live there. God country too. My grandmothers were both Christians but I only went to church with one who was Presbyterian. They are super laid back. Neither were pushy on Jesus. I imagine out of respect for my parents. My area is pretty heavy Catholic due to the mills and they were never really preachy. I remember when I took Latin thinking the Roman gods were just stories like Jesus. Never occured to me Christians though he was real. I thought they just liked him as an example.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Initially I think believing in ghosts sparked it.
The paranormal, yeah I guess that is what held my interest in spirituality.
I got into tarot reading and what I would now call light spell work as a teen.
Yeah I went the other way, more towards like spiritual principles and word of knowledge type stuff, gifts of the spirit and interceding. I would have probably avoided that when I was a teen lol.
One I left for college not much happened. Then I had an actually full on "salvation experience" in college. But I was surround by Christianity. I still didn't read the Bible for decades and had my own views on god and Jesus that I assumed were right. Second time I started meditation and holistic stuff that lead to the gods I work with now.Never occured to me Christians though he was real. I thought they just liked him as an example.
At some level I guess it wouldn't matter if one believed Jesus was actual or just a symbolic type figure, the application is the same really I would think. I tend to believe Jesus was a historical spiritual Master because of the contents themselves, not so much the doctrines that surround it all.
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@EtrnlVw
I don't think he walked the Earth. I think it happened somewhere else. Just like the other gods. Same for Old Testament. That is why there is no proof. I think the Bible is confusing. Half of what people focus on isn't Jesus.At some level I guess it wouldn't matter if one believed Jesus was actual or just a symbolic type figure, the application is the same really I would think. I tend to believe Jesus was a historical spiritual Master because of the contents themselves, not so much the doctrines that surround it all.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Second time I started meditation and holistic stuff that lead to the gods I work with now.
The meditation (also contemplation) seems to wake people up to more awareness I like it. What did you mean by holistic stuff?
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@EtrnlVw
What did you mean by holistic stuff?
Growing my own food organically. Nature remedies for things you wouldn't see a dr for. Making soaps and lotions. Making incense. I kept coming across witch sites with recipes and at some point realized I had done some spell work as a kid as well as some astral stuff. Which I have a hard time doing now. Same for dream work. Used to have great dreams and remember them. I struggle now. Think it's a not ready thing.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don't think he walked the Earth.
Why not? even though the Gospels are themselves evidence, I'm sure the religious authorities wanted to keep their murder of the down low. It doesn't surprise me there isn't much evidence outside the Gospels because of the nature of what Jesus did. These people that killed him were crooked as hell.
I think it happened somewhere else. Just like the other gods.
That's possible, I don't discount the layers of knowledge and symbolic value, I tend to believe it is both, Jesus existed as well as the teachings represent many things. I do believe Jesus was an incarnation, but I have no problems with him being on Earth. The spiritual Masters come down to the lower worlds to redeem mans stupid ways.
Same for Old Testament. That is why there is no proof. I think the Bible is confusing. Half of what people focus on isn't Jesus.
I do take a figurative approach to much of the OT, but spiritual Masters do manifest here to break up the negative forces. There was a turn of events that took place 2000 years ago, the account of Jesus fits that description, the religious authorities had a stronghold in that culture...could be wrong though.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Growing my own food organically. Nature remedies for things you wouldn't see a dr for. Making soaps and lotions.
Now you're speaking my language :)
Making incense. I kept coming across witch sites with recipes and at some point realized I had done some spell work as a kid as well as some astral stuff. Which I have a hard time doing now. Same for dream work. Used to have great dreams and remember them. I struggle now. Think it's a not ready thing.
I think its interesting kids have more intuition to pick up on spiritual phenomenon, most people lose that as they get older. Not because kids are deluded, but because they have less presumptions about life. They don't carry as much baggage.
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@EtrnlVw
I think a lot of the magic associated with the Old Testament God was hidden and swashed. Kabbalah shows a side to God most Christians would reject. I view Moses as the first of many shaman who translated events elsewhere to here. The Jews were not in Egypt but a city most like Egypt somewhere else so they called it that when talking to laymen.
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@EtrnlVw
I agree. We really want to get out of town and raise our own meat even. We had a few backyard chickens and loved it. Eggs and meat. But we need more space. I hate where we are right now. We had to move quick and it's not a great neighborhood. I want pigs and goats and chickens and make cheese. If I thought I could do the homestead thing I would.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I agree. We really want to get out of town and raise our own meat even. We had a few backyard chickens and loved it. Eggs and meat. But we need more space. I hate where we are right now. We had to move quick and it's not a great neighborhood. I want pigs and goats and chickens and make cheese. If I thought I could do the homestead thing I would.
Hey, don't forget about your veggies and fruits mon!! my family was from the old school too, meat and potatoes but the power is in the fruits so grow some of that too! I love fundamental, survival living and the farm life, we're stuck in the city at the moment too. First chance I get we are headed to the hills lol, just like you I want some land and a farm.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think a lot of the magic associated with the Old Testament God was hidden and swashed. Kabbalah shows a side to God most Christians would reject. I view Moses as the first of many shaman who translated events elsewhere to here. The Jews were not in Egypt but a city most like Egypt somewhere else so they called it that when talking to laymen.
I can relate to this, the Bible is packed full of paranormal and out of body experiences. Funny how fundamentalists and pew warmers run away from that, don't read the Bible then, if you don't wana hear about visits from spiritual beings, angels, demons, visions, multiple realms and all kinds of occult activities.
The Bible is packed full of paranormal and out of body experiences. Funny how fundamentalists and pew warmers run away from that, don't read the Bible then, if you don't wana hear about visits from spiritual beings, angels, demons, visions, multiple realms and all kinds of occult activities.
We Orthodox see secularisation as naturally following from protestantism. It isn't a surprise to us that protestants tend to be secular.(Obviously not all)
The secular leaning protestants, especially the ones that think spiritual gifts ended after the first century... would likely find the accounts of some of our saints difficult to swallow. Even the more recent saints tend to have miracles attributed to them. Saints that are especially known to be followed by miracles tend to have the nickname "wonder worker".
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@Mopac
We Orthodox see secularisation as naturally following from protestantism. It isn't a surprise to us that protestants tend to be secular.(Obviously not all)
Is there any reason you keep projecting Protestantism my way? if you're curious about my beliefs just ask. I don't do labels and religious sects, the only church near me I'm affiliated with is non-denominational and my only motivation is to serve and help. The reason I don't label myself or become some member at some organization is because I don't believe in dividing myself from other believers. If they want to fine, I prefer all believers from all styles just get together and hug it out, try and change the world or something that makes sense besides gossip and back biting. I like deeper issues than church politics.
TBH I would probably be considered a heretic even by protestant standards, I study all forms of spirituality. I examine whatever is true, I don't care about dogma.
The secular leaning protestants, especially the ones that think spiritual gifts ended after the first century... would likely find the accounts of some of our saints difficult to swallow. Even the more recent saints tend to have miracles attributed to them. Saints that are especially known to be followed by miracles tend to have the nickname "wonder worker".
I'm down with spiritual gifts so you're in my field of knowledge, but again, this protestant issue you have is annoying. I'd wish we could communicate without there having to be some problem you have with protestants.
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@EtrnlVw
I am not calling you a protestant. I don't get the impression you are a Christian.
You are certainly a product of the protestant attitude though, which is typified by rebellion against church tradition. You and just about all of western society.
As for me being Orthodox, I don't see it as dividing myself from other believers. If you aren't Orthodox, calling you a believer might be a stretch. So really, it is setting apart the believers from the unbelievers.
What is it they are not believing in? The One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic church.
I have studied the scriptures of every major religion. I have not always been Orthodox, and there was a time, like you, I would have shied away from the Christian label. I am very securely an Orthodox.
Now, you say you are part of a nondenominational church. I would call that protestant or Evangelical. In a way, nondenominational has become its own denomination. It is still a rejection of church tradition, which is terribly disrespectful to every Christian and saint who has ever lived, particularly the first millennium of Christianity.
The Orthodox Church is The Church. These denominations or "non"denominations are not the church. We are a set apart nation of priests. We are The New Israel. Our church is decended from the apostles. It is True Christianity.
These other so called churches? They are eating from the crumbs of our table. They are not the church.
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@Mopac
Protestants do not rebel against church tradition. They embrace it. but they protest in favour of the Scriptures as the ultimate authority in matters whether doctrine or tradition.
If you were to know your church history a little better, you would know it was not the protestants but rather the dissenters who were against church traditions per se. The West has a smattering of all types of Christian churches amongst it. Individualism is a distinctly American thing brought through the democratic beliefs of the Baptists. Baptists are the children of the Anabaptist movement - dissenters not protestants.
I reject the notion that the Orthodox Church is the only true church. It is a church and it has its own jurisdiction but it is not the only true church. In fact I would be surprised if its members attending our church would be permitted to participate within holy communion until they were examined by our elders. Our church has a high view of the sacraments and the mystery pertaining to it; although we have not taken on the superstitions of the pagans like some in other churches.
Still, I am pleased that you seem to have a wide reading of different books, even if it was not a thorough or critical look. But you are not alone. These days people seem to read a great deal more - wider but not deeper.
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@Tradesecret
The protestants very understandably broke away from the Latin church, which was heretical to begin with. However, they did throw away Church tradition, and it would be silly to deny this. Reading the earliest church fathers makes it very clear that protestantism has discarded a great deal.
And Sola Scriptura is kind of silly, because The Orthodox Church compiled the New Testament. Besides, protestants don't even have all the books because they abandoned the old testament the church has used for thousands of years in favor of a translation they think is in the original language.... oh then they butcher the new testament via textual criticism.
It's like you all think the church sat around wondering what to do until the bible was compiled or something.
No, we knew what we believed before the new testament was compiled.
Ecumenical councils? Forget about that. I've heard the corrupted Roman creed in protestant churches. I've heard the apostles creed.
No, protestants forgot tradition. They have an incomplete church, it's the truth.
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@Mopac
The protestants very understandably broke away from the Latin church, which was heretical to begin with. However, they did throw away Church tradition, and it would be silly to deny this. Reading the earliest church fathers makes it very clear that protestantism has discarded a great deal.
You seem to demonstrate a misunderstanding of protestant teaching. Would you please provide some examples of what tradition the church has discarded?
And Sola Scriptura is kind of silly, because The Orthodox Church compiled the New Testament. Besides, protestants don't even have all the books because they abandoned the old testament the church has used for thousands of years in favor of a translation they think is in the original language.... oh then they butcher the new testament via textual criticism.
Hmm,, you also lack an understanding of the protestant's view on Sola Scriptura. Protestants do not agree that the canon of scripture was compiled by the Orthodox church. There is no history or tradition which supports such an erroneous position. The books which protestants agree are in the Bible were those books which traditionally accepted by the early fathers of the church. It was Athanasius in around 400 ad who first made a list which aligns with the protestant church. Logically if the orthodox church or the catholic church compiled a list as opposed to that which was handed down by the vast majority of the church from the earlier days, then the orthodox and catholic church are able to claim greater authority than the Scriptures - which incidentally has only one real purpose - to destroy the authority of the bible. This would enable the church today to be able to add or delete books based on this same authority. Indeed this is what the charismatic church does with its fresh revelation. Yet the book of Daniel clearly tells us the canon would be closed by AD 70.
This is why your scriptures contains more additions than the protestant version. Your church as well as the Catholic church in 1500 or so - decided some books were necessary in order to support your doctrines.
It's like you all think the church sat around wondering what to do until the bible was compiled or something.No, we knew what we believed before the new testament was compiled.
Yes that is based on faulty thinking. The church did not wait around. They were using the bible - handed down and accepted by the early church and the fathers. the protestant church did not need the church to compile it.
Ecumenical councils? Forget about that. I've heard the corrupted Roman creed in protestant churches. I've heard the apostles creed.No, protestants forgot tradition. They have an incomplete church, it's the truth.
Yes, you reject the ecumenical councils because they did not always favour the orthodox - Eastern church. The church split over whether the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son or whether he did not. the ecumenical church council ruled against the eastern church. No surprise you see no use in them.
As I said above - it is your position that protestants have rejected or forgot tradition. It is therefore for you to instruct how this is the case.
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@Tradesecret
I think it is rather silly to talk about what protestants believe, because they seem to only be united by their anarchy and rejection of Orthodoxy.
How can I compare the lesbian priestess sect to the bible is a scientific manual sect?
What church are we talking about? There is no protestant church!
Yes, you reject the ecumenical councils because they did not always favour the orthodox - Eastern church. The church split over whether the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son or whether he did not. the ecumenical church council ruled against the eastern church. No surprise you see no use in them.
See, here is something we could actually talk about because you are wrong and we actually have this stuff well documented. We Orthodox know where the corruption of the creed that was agreed by the ecumenical councils came from, and we know how Rome ended up adopting it.
I see you are winging it as you go along though. A very protestant approach.
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@Tradesecret
Saint Athanasius
You mention that name.
Orthodox Bishop of Alexandria.
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@Tradesecret
You are, unsurprisingly, wholly ignorant about The Orthodox Church. Protestantism in general is plagued by amnesia of the church.
Rome broke off from us, because they arbitrarily changed things concerning the faith and declared The Pope to be king over Christendom.
We Orthodox have kept the same faith, while Rome has made the type of innovations that you falsely attribute to us.
And common sense even lends credence to this(besides the historical record)
Was the new testament written in latin or greek?
Did 4 patriarchs break from the 1 or did the 1 break from the 4?
And if you want proof that Orthodoxy has remained consistent since the earliest days, studying the church fathers and saints that protestant churches like to forget existed will show that the Orthodox Church is very steadfast.