The Mass Psychology of Trumpism

Author: Double_R

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WyIted
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I'm talking about the guy who suggested we drop a nuclear bomb in a hurricane,
This is why ai can never vote for a Democrat. This sort of lie that this was a serious policy proposal and not a thought experiment. Literally all of the left is evil liars. Show me one who doesn't lie about shit like this. 
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@Best.Korea
I've posted the issue the moderation discord for review, so more may follow. I will however give more immediate feedback...


Jude 1:7  Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
You can see more nude pictures of Melania on ____________.com
  1. Melania as a public figure is not protected by the CoC.  Were she a site member, this would be an automatic permanent ban (doxxing someone's real name, that they posed nude, and where to find said photos).
  2. While I am not endorsing telling anyone to look up nudes, but if it ever must be done, do not point to the URL of any site hosting said nudes. I.e., you can Google dirty pictures of a certain purple dinosaur, but saying they're at https://www.XXX.PurpleDinosuar is crossing the line (even if not posted outright as a link). 
  3. The above does not apply to PMs, but consent still does. Sending not requested links to any nudes, is basically the same as sending dick pics. To post those links on the forum, is equivalent to airdropping it.
  4. Please do not argue over if any nudie photos are "explicit adult sexual material" or not. Some phrasing doesn't need to be explicit for the see-through intent.
  5. I've checked and double checked, but I cannot find said photos within the biblical book of Jude.  That whole book will forever be a disappointment now.

Greyparrot
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@Barney
So can you post links to porn sites or not? Or just if the porn site has at least one image of a public figure?

Maybe you can make an age-restricted category for those who wish to discuss and share explicit porn publicly?
Barney
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@Greyparrot
We may not post such links, even if it's a public figure. As previously stated:
do not point to the URL of any site hosting said nudes. I.e., you can Google dirty pictures of a certain purple dinosaur, but saying they're at https://www.XXX.PurpleDinosuar is crossing the line (even if not posted outright as a link). 

ADreamOfLiberty
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Shit, they know about my website...

Greyparrot
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Thanks.
Swagnarok
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@Double_R
For all of my ire with Trump and MAGA specifically and the republican party broadly, it takes a palpable level of brainwashing to believe it's all about being evil. 
Really? You believe Trump would make himself a Mussolini-style dictator and value judgments like evil have never popped up in your mind? Excuse me if I don't buy it.

There are always going to be people out there saying nasty things.
It's not about some vague "people out there saying nasty things". It's about a systemic bias in one direction against the other by the most influential voices in society. The average person, since he's not all-knowing, looks to voices of authority to tell him what to think. Not about everything, sure, but "being informed" entails consulting public resources and the individuals and entities behind such. This is unavoidable; I myself have little choice but to daily consult the same news sources that I distrust. And those individuals/entities are broadcasting 24/7 negative propaganda about Trump, much of it blatantly hateful.

If Trump were to say "Biden is senile", or "Kamala Harris slept her way up the early part of her career", who would believe him? His hardcore supporters, sure, but not moderate voters. He's one man known to have a big mouth and exaggerate constantly.
Of course, the same is true for Biden. Whatever his preexisting reputation, people know politicians say bad stuff about their opponents. That's par for the course. If it was simply Biden and his campaign slinging mud back at Trump, plus MSNBC and far-left outlets of similar reputation to counter the far-right Fox, we'd reach a situation of parity. I wouldn't be inclined to complain about that.

On the other hand, if the headline "Trump threatens a 'bloodbath' if he loses reelection" were to appear on CNN (even though, of course, Trump was talking about the US auto industry and anyone who bothered to watch the original clip should've known this), people believe that kind of stuff. It's much more effective propaganda than anything Trump or Biden is capable of. They have an outsized power to shape public opinion and they're using it solely against Trump and his campaign.

When I talk about civility in politics I'm not talking about people on Twitter, I'm talking about prominent figures within the political left
And I say that when journalists decide elections, they are as powerful as politicians and ought to be held to the same standard of civility as prominent Democratic Party figures.

Taking the high road doesn't mean pretending that your political opponent isn't the threat that he is.
If you're gonna go with this, then anything and everything is justified, because everyone believes the other party to be a "threat".

I'm talking about the guy who suggested we drop a nuclear bomb in a hurricane, thought the solution to California wild fires is a rake
That's a lack of knowledge, not stupidity. You yourself are knowledgeable about whatever your career entails, but ignorant about a million random subjects. That's part and parcel of being human. Trump's mistake was to act like he knew what he didn't. But this is a separate vice from stupidity.

And let's face it: when Trump said "let's drop the nuclear bomb on the hurricane", you knew it was a dumb idea but you probably didn't know the science behind why it was a dumb idea. Maybe you looked it up and read an explanation after the fact, but that's beside the point. You just intuitively knew it was a dumb idea, same way that Trump intuitively "knew" it was a good idea.

And there is, I think, value to creative thinking in itself, even if lack of knowledge hampers its practical usefulness. The fact that Trump, a man in his 70s, was still capable of this kind of thinking is a good sign.
Take the rake thing; it's well known that California's wildfires were made worse by the state's reluctance to do controlled burns, allowing for flammable material to build up in forests. Assuming he came up with the idea of raking the forest himself, it does make for a sort of creative solution. You would remove that material without having to set anything on fire. Of course, it doesn't consider the logistics of combing such a vast area for leaves, or that more leaves would fall after the job is done, but so far as spur-of-the-moment shower thoughts go it's not so bad.

Should anyone have followed Trump's advice and raked the forest floor? No, but what it demonstrates is that Trump can think flexibly, a skillset that suits any President of the United States well as they go about doing what the job entails.

I accuse him of that because he is, as evidenced by the fact that he constantly fawns over dictators because of how tough and in control they are of their countries
For what it's worth, it's not an unpopular opinion that some countries are unsuited for democracy.
Many Democrats scoffed when Bush said he was going to bring democracy to Iraq, and worried that removing a strongman who kept the peace would make the local situation worse. I've heard a political science textbook raise the question "What good are lofty ideals like democracy to third world people whose main concern is putting food on the table?". I paraphrase because I don't remember what the exact wording was, but yeah.

In other words, it's not uncommon to use a different yardstick for what's good for other countries vs. what's good for America, where the system of government we have has served us well (our huge national debt notwithstanding).

Calling a lie hyperbole doesn't mean it's no longer a lie.
"Gee, I'm so swamped today. I've got a million things to do." Was this a lie or hyperbole?

You mean like loudly declaring that if a NATO ally doesn't "pay up" he would tell Russia to "do whatever the hell they want"?
You mean things he was saying back in 2015/2016, before he proceeded to become President and not touch NATO? This is the man who withdrew from NAFTA and the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Do you really think he wouldn't have exited one more treaty if he wanted to?

You left the dictators of Russia and North Korea off that lost. I wonder why.
Because for Russia, he was the same as other Presidents. Like Bush, who "looked into the soul" of Putin and saw a good man. Or Obama, who was quick to pursue a "restart" with Russia and then laughed at Mitt Romney at one of the 2012 debates when the Republican dared to suggest Russia might still be a threat 4 years after invading Georgia. Trump's Russia policy doesn't exactly stand out by post-Cold War standards.

With North Korea, he was harder on them at one point and then softer afterward. Both matter. You may or may not remember, but the mid-2010s was a period when North Korea's nuclear program was maturing and they were posturing more aggressively than they had done before. Fears of war escalated during this period, not just in Trump's first 2 years but before he took office.
Ever since then, the whole situation on that front has died down. Hardly anyone talks about North Korea anymore. Why? Because Trump first warned them "If you pick a fight with us, we won't blink", and then offered Kim Jong Un an off-ramp. We couldn't stop the North from getting nukes in any event, but we've also minimized the consequences of this fact.

Double_R
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@WyIted
Please explain how I was psychologically tricked to support Trump and Kamala Harris will implement more policies I like. 
No one said anything like that. It's not in the video, nor does that have anything to do with the point of this thread. I don't mean to be a dick, but are you dyslexic? You seem incapable of understanding anything you read. Cause if so I apologize and will adjust my responses appropriately.

What the video went into that I was interested in here is the part about Trump not being seen by his supporters as a person, which is a large part of why you guys let him get away with things you would never excuse from any other politician. If you have any thoughts on that let me know.

This is why ai can never vote for a Democrat. This sort of lie that this was a serious policy proposal and not a thought experiment.
And yet again, you are having a whole conversation with yourself. No one is claiming it was a seriously policy proposal. I said he made the suggestion... As in he brought it up to his aides as a possible way to combat a hurricane, as in he actually thought it might be a good idea, as in he is really stupid enough to think dropping a nuclear bomb inside of a hurricane had a good enough chance of being a good idea that he decided to suggest it, out loud, to other people.

That's insane.

What is really remarkable though is that aside from you pretending it is the left who is lying here and not your own imagination of what others are laughing at here, is that your comment suggests you really care about not being lied to, so much in fact that you wouldn't dare vote for the side that shows themselves to be liars. So instead you are voting for Donald Trump, the literal, most prolific liar in American political history. Ok.
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@Double_R
What the video went into that I was interested in here is the part about Trump not being seen by his supporters as a person,
It's actually more likely Trump detractors do not see Trump as a person, but as an existential force of evil and hyperbolic fear. Trump does a ton of folksy chats on social media, which has personalized him to many who tuned in. Democrats literally shot themselves when Trump survived his assassination, shocking the world as to how much Trump is actual flesh and blood and not some spectral ephemeral ghost of evil spirits.
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@WyIted
Also, Trump rallies are literally 3+ hours of him riffing folksy vibes as if you were sitting in your living room with him. The last thing Trump supporters see him as is an artificial construct and not a real person. This video is pure projection from the radical left to justify why they themselves do not see DJT as a real person which then justifies their baseless hyperbolic faith in TDS. It's precisely this type of projection that will forever keep the left tribe from understanding how they lost the culture war.
IlDiavolo
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@FLRW
You can see more nude pictures of Melania on &%$"!.com
Nice.
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Melania does tons of folksy rubs on a bed with a nude woman.
Double_R
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@Swagnarok
You believe Trump would make himself a Mussolini-style dictator and value judgments like evil have never popped up in your mind?
My worldview is apparently a bit more nuanced than yours. I don't Trump as evil, I see him as a narcissist who is incapable of empathy and only recognizes the world in terms of what's good for him thus he is incapable in understanding why anyone else would see it differently. He doesn't understand the value of democracy because to him the world is just one big game of winners and losers.

Evil is for superhero movies. Once we grow up we recognize the world is far more complicated than that. Everyone is the hero in their own story.

It's about a systemic bias in one direction against the other by the most influential voices in society.
And why do you think that is?

On the other hand, if the headline "Trump threatens a 'bloodbath' if he loses reelection" were to appear on CNN (even though, of course, Trump was talking about the US auto industry and anyone who bothered to watch the original clip should've known this), people believe that kind of stuff. It's much more effective propaganda than anything Trump or Biden is capable of. They have an outsized power to shape public opinion and they're using it solely against Trump and his campaign.
The bloodbath thing was taken out of context and many on the left including Biden did take it too far, but it wasn't nothing. If Trump had not already tried to overthrow a violent election and demonstrated as president a tacit endorsement of violence in an effort to attain it, people would not be interpreting his words the way they did.

And one would figure, if they're being accused by a massively large swath of the country of being a dictator wannabe, they would be a bit more careful of the language they use. But it's Trump so of course not. His refusal to change anything about his approach given what's already happened suggests that these kind of quotes in many cases aren't as out of context as they seem. Because context isn't just about the sentence before or after.

With all that said, you're acting as if people believe the framing of these quotes because places like CNN reported on then the way they did. You have it backwards. It's because people see Trump this way that the media puts it in that light. The media is only reflecting the impression Trump is giving, and those impressions whether you accept it or not are for good reason.

That's not to say that there is no propaganda or public opinion shaping going on here, but the viewers understand much better what's going on a play a much bigger role in the shaping of the narrative than you seem to think.

And I say that when journalists decide elections
They don't, what silly thing to say.

Taking the high road doesn't mean pretending that your political opponent isn't the threat that he is.
If you're gonna go with this, then anything and everything is justified
Complete nonsense. Calling reality what it is and anything else are not the same. That's common sense.

If Ted Bundy were running for president his political opponent would call him a rapist and a murderer. That's not resorting to political insults, and it would be absurd for any campaign to treat him as a normal human being in the name of taking the high road.

It's not the democrats fault that the republican party for the third time has nominated a man who is one of the worst kinds of people we've ever seen in American political life, so it's not their responsibility to ignore it.

I'm talking about the guy who suggested we drop a nuclear bomb in a hurricane, thought the solution to California wild fires is a rake
That's a lack of knowledge, not stupidity.
How much knowledge do you need to know that raking the forest is not a solution for CA's wildfire problem?

Should anyone have followed Trump's advice and raked the forest floor? No, but what it demonstrates is that Trump can think flexibly, a skillset that suits any President of the United States well as they go about doing what the job entails.
Demonstrates that he can think flexibly... Wow.

I accuse him of that because he is, as evidenced by the fact that he constantly fawns over dictators because of how tough and in control they are of their countries
For what it's worth, it's not an unpopular opinion that some countries are unsuited for democracy.
This has nothing to do with my point.

Calling a lie hyperbole doesn't mean it's no longer a lie.
"Gee, I'm so swamped today. I've got a million things to do." Was this a lie or hyperbole?
That isn't what we're talking about and you know that.

When Trump says democrats support the execution of babies after birth that's not hyperbole, that's a lie.

You mean like loudly declaring that if a NATO ally doesn't "pay up" he would tell Russia to "do whatever the hell they want"?
You mean things he was saying back in 2015/2016, before he proceeded to become President and not touch NATO? 
Do you seriously believe nothing has changed since 2016?


Double_R
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@Swagnarok
You believe Trump would make himself a Mussolini-style dictator and value judgments like evil have never popped up in your mind?
My worldview is apparently a bit more nuanced than yours. I don't see Trump as evil, I see him as a narcissist who is incapable of empathy and only recognizes the world in terms of what's good for him thus he is incapable of understanding why anyone else would see it differently. He doesn't understand the value of democracy because to him the world is just one big game of winners and losers.

Evil is for superhero movies. Once we grow up we recognize the world is far more complicated than that. Everyone is the hero in their own story.

It's about a systemic bias in one direction against the other by the most influential voices in society.
And why do you think that is?

On the other hand, if the headline "Trump threatens a 'bloodbath' if he loses reelection" were to appear on CNN (even though, of course, Trump was talking about the US auto industry and anyone who bothered to watch the original clip should've known this), people believe that kind of stuff. It's much more effective propaganda than anything Trump or Biden is capable of. They have an outsized power to shape public opinion and they're using it solely against Trump and his campaign.
The bloodbath thing was taken out of context and many on the left including Biden did take it too far, but it wasn't nothing. If Trump had not already tried to overthrow a violent election and demonstrated as president a tacit endorsement of violence in an effort to attain it, people would not be interpreting his words the way they did.

And one would figure, if they're being accused by a massively large swath of the country of being a dictator wannabe, they would be a bit more careful of the language they use. But it's Trump so of course not. His refusal to change anything about his approach given what's already happened suggests that these kind of quotes in many cases aren't as out of context as they seem. Because context isn't just about the sentence before or after.

With all that said, you're acting as if people believe the framing of these quotes because places like CNN reported on then the way they did. You have it backwards. It's because people see Trump this way that the media puts it in that light. The media is only reflecting the impression Trump is giving, and those impressions whether you accept it or not are for good reason.

That's not to say that there is no propaganda or public opinion shaping going on here, but the viewers understand much better what's going on a play a much bigger role in the shaping of the narrative than you seem to think.

And I say that when journalists decide elections
They don't, what silly thing to say.

Taking the high road doesn't mean pretending that your political opponent isn't the threat that he is.
If you're gonna go with this, then anything and everything is justified
Complete nonsense. Calling reality what it is and anything else are not the same. That's common sense.

If Ted Bundy were running for president his political opponent would call him a rapist and a murderer. That's not resorting to political insults, and it would be absurd for any campaign to treat him as a normal human being in the name of taking the high road.

It's not the democrats fault that the republican party for the third time has nominated a man who is one of the worst kinds of people we've ever seen in American political life, so it's not their responsibility to ignore it.

I'm talking about the guy who suggested we drop a nuclear bomb in a hurricane, thought the solution to California wild fires is a rake
That's a lack of knowledge, not stupidity.
How much knowledge do you need to know that raking the forest is not a solution for CA's wildfire problem?

Should anyone have followed Trump's advice and raked the forest floor? No, but what it demonstrates is that Trump can think flexibly, a skillset that suits any President of the United States well as they go about doing what the job entails.
Demonstrates that he can think flexibly... Wow.

I accuse him of that because he is, as evidenced by the fact that he constantly fawns over dictators because of how tough and in control they are of their countries
For what it's worth, it's not an unpopular opinion that some countries are unsuited for democracy.
This has nothing to do with my point.

Calling a lie hyperbole doesn't mean it's no longer a lie.
"Gee, I'm so swamped today. I've got a million things to do." Was this a lie or hyperbole?
That isn't what we're talking about and you know that.

When Trump says democrats support the execution of babies after birth that's not hyperbole, that's a lie.

You mean like loudly declaring that if a NATO ally doesn't "pay up" he would tell Russia to "do whatever the hell they want"?
You mean things he was saying back in 2015/2016, before he proceeded to become President and not touch NATO? 
Do you seriously believe nothing has changed since 2016?



WyIted
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@Double_R
. I said he made the suggestion... As in he brought it up to his aides as a possible way to combat a hurricane, as in he actually thought it might be a good idea
There was a period of time where lots of scientists were discussing this as a kind of thought experiment. It seems retarded to bring it up and now I know why Bohemian Grove has the Chatham House rules. Retards will later try to bring that stuff up as some sort of own
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@Greyparrot
It's actually more likely Trump detractors do not see Trump as a person, but as an existential force of evil and hyperbolic fear. Trump does a ton of folksy chats on social media, which has personalized him to many who tuned in.
Folksy chats? It's that what you call his 3AM all caps screeds on social media screaming about fake polls and fake AI generated crowds?

You haven't addressed a word of the OP. If you guys look at Trump as you do any other human being, then why on earth do you dismiss and make nothing but excuses for the abhorrent things he says and does on a daily basis for which no other political figure is allowed to get away with? Joe Biden mixes up someone's name and it's a week's worth of coverage in rightwingville, Donald Trump goes on an hour long tangent about sharks and Hannibal Lector and you guys are like "yeah that guy is sharp enough to be president".

The complete and total lack of any standard by which Trump can do anything wrong demands some explanation, if the video's suggestion is ridiculously off then by all means you are free to offer one.
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@Double_R
abhorrent things he says and does on a daily basis...
Can you list 5-10 things he has done (not said ) that you find abhorrent? A "daily basis" would mean you have thousands of such actions to select from, so a list of ten should be a softball ask.

 Joe Biden mixes up someone's name and it's a week's worth of coverage in rightwingville,
Honest question: Do you think Biden would still be in the race if not for the negative coverage? Do you think people would accept that he is fit for office after that final debate? CNN recently got roasted on a comedy show for supporting Biden/Kamala after the debacle debate from their own Democrat crowds...





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@Greyparrot
Trump frequently recycles false claims of achievement from when he was president.

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@Greyparrot
Can you list 5-10 things he has done (not said ) that you find abhorrent? A "daily basis" would mean you have thousands of such actions to select from, so a list of ten should be a softball ask.
In just the past day and a half he filmed a campaign ad at a cemetery and reposted a video talking about how blow jobs impacted Hilary Clinton and Kamala Haris, essentially calling Harris a whore (with of course, no evidence any of that ever happened).

Do you think Biden would still be in the race if not for the negative coverage?
Yes

Do you think people would accept that he is fit for office after that final debate?
Most people only watch spliced clips and highlight reels, so no.

CNN recently got roasted on a comedy show for supporting Biden/Kamala after the debacle debate from their own Democrat crowds...
Do you have a point?
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@Double_R
In just the past day and a half he filmed a campaign ad at a cemetery and reposted a video talking about how blow jobs impacted Hilary Clinton and Kamala Haris, essentially calling Harris a whore (with of course, no evidence any of that ever happened).

abhorrent things he says and does on a daily basis...

Again, not asking for something he said or communicated. You literally claimed Trump DID something (policy wise foe example) that was abhorrent. List 5-10.

I'll even give you a softball answer and you can list the crime that was stated in his felony show trial as the 1st one. Oh wait, list the misdemeanor charge, that's good enough.

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@Greyparrot
Again, not asking for something he said or communicated. You literally claimed Trump DID something (policy wise foe example) that was abhorrent. 
Notice my literal first half sentence in my response...

In just the past day and a half he filmed a campaign ad at a cemetery
That's not something he "said". And again, that's just in the past day and a half or so.

I have no reason to provide you a list of anything because you have yet to show yourself to be interested in any good faith conversation. I have you an example address it or go away.

And what ever happened to you being a Trump hater? Are you finally admitting that you were full of shit from the start on that, or are you going to pretend that you don't think he routinely says and does things that are abhorrent?

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@Double_R
I gave you one thing Trump did that wasn't "communication"
I don't think I have ever seen you steelman any side, and yet you accuse me of bad faith when I clearly gave you one freebie to start your list. 

Projection, sigh.

If you can't find and list others, that's fine.
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Louisa Adams, First Lady 1825-1829

  • Louisa Adams was born in London, England, making her the only US First Lady who was not born in America.
  • Well, until Melania

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@Greyparrot
you accuse me of bad faith when I clearly gave you one freebie to start your list. 
I accuse you of bad faith because there was already no reason to sperate out nonverbal acts from verbal to address my point. That was clearly intended as a gotcha, so this was already going no where. Furthermore, there is nothing a list would bring to the conversation that my first example didn't, yet you ignore it and press for a list anyway and then act as if my unwillingness to play your silly little game proves that I'm the bad faith actor. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
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If you can't find and list others, that's fine.