trump is wrong to shut down the government for a wall

Author: linate

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@linate
Some will always get through. I honestly don't care if people come here to work.Granted lately people in my area are loosing jobs to illegals. Something we never had before. My problem is that once in they get all kinds of services, get jobs because they can be paid less, less benefits. American workers can't compete not because of work ethic but pay scale and benefits. 

If workers were registered, tracked, force to be paid American wagers and benefits instead of being the new slave labor I would have no issue. What ticks me off is dems don't see that they are using illegals for slave labor. Whether some rich person using illegals for lawn work, or Trump using Chinese labor both are avoiding paying Americans to keep their wealth. 

I hate hypocrisy,. 
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@linate
if a hundred people were going to cross the border but there's a wall there, how many do you think will find a way across anyway? i assume a significant amount won't even try. 
How long does it take to get over, under or through a built to spec boarder wall? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKq3wpi8IBU
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@Polytheist-Witch
Some will always get through. I honestly don't care if people come here to work.Granted lately people in my area are loosing jobs to illegals. Something we never had before. My problem is that once in they get all kinds of services, get jobs because they can be paid less, less benefits. American workers can't compete not because of work ethic but pay scale and benefits. 
But there are still about 340 million unclaimed tax forms recorded in the file, compared to 270 million nearly a decade ago. A good portion of those forms were filed by employers on behalf of some of the most unlikely funders of Social Security: undocumented immigrants. In fact, illegal immigration is considered largely responsible for the mushrooming of the file, with undocumented workers paying billions in taxes for retirement benefits they will likely never receive.[LINK]

If workers were registered, tracked, force to be paid American wagers and benefits instead of being the new slave labor I would have no issue. What ticks me off is dems don't see that they are using illegals for slave labor. Whether some rich person using illegals for lawn work, or Trump using Chinese labor both are avoiding paying Americans to keep their wealth. 
Cheap labor lowers consumer prices (saves you money) and boosts corporate profits (tax revenue).  Immigrants (more than half of them from Canada) do not cost you money, they save you money.

ANd, there are no "dems" advocating for "open borders".  Everyone agrees that people should follow proper channels, they only disagree that a forceless mascot wall is NOT the BEST way to do that.

If you had a problem with people breaking into your house, would you want a better fence, OR would you want more police officers and faster response times?

I hate hypocrisy,. 
If you hate hypocrisy, then you'll love this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wk6rswxQro

The 1940s saw yet another reversal of U.S. policies--and attitudes--toward Mexican immigration. As wartime industries absorbed U.S. workers, farmers became desperate for low-cost labor and urged the government to take action. In 1942, the U.S. and Mexico jointly created the bracero, or laborer, program, which encouraged Mexicans to come to the U.S. as contract workers. Braceros were generally paid very low wages, and often worked under conditions that most U.S. citizens were unwilling to accept. Braceros were treated so poorly in Texas, for example, that for a period the Mexican government refused to send any workers to that state. The program was very popular with U.S. farmers, and was extended well past the end of World War II, not ending until 1964. More than 5 million Mexicans came to the U.S. as braceros, and hundreds of thousands stayed.

Ironically, just as one government program was pulling Mexican immigrants into the U.S., another was pushing them out. After the war, the U.S. began a new campaign of deportation, on a much larger scale than during the Depression. The expulsions lasted well into the 1950s, and sent more than 4 million immigrants, as well as many Mexican Americans (American citizens), to Mexico.[LINK]

Canadians lead U.S. immigrants in unauthorized visa overstays, according to first-ever estimates from the Department of Homeland Security. Just under half of all immigrants in the country illegally are Mexican nationals, according to Pew Research. That share may decrease in the coming years, as Central American migrants to outpace Mexican in unauthorized land-based border crossings. But what about immigrants who come to the U.S. legally with a business, tourist or student visa? Most are from Canada, not Mexico, and more are from Germany than all Central American countries combined.[LINK]

If the United States banned Canadians, they could cut illegal immigration in HALF overnight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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if all a person was worried about was mexican stealing jobs, the better alternative to a wall would be enforcing the law with teeth, that says employers must check citizen status before hiring. 
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@linate
if all a person was worried about was mexican stealing jobs, the better alternative to a wall would be enforcing the law with teeth, that says employers must check citizen status before hiring. 
They could probably set some serious fines for employers who file false Social Security forms.

But there are still about 340 million unclaimed tax forms recorded in the file, compared to 270 million nearly a decade ago. A good portion of those forms were filed by employers on behalf of some of the most unlikely funders of Social Security: undocumented immigrants. In fact, illegal immigration is considered largely responsible for the mushrooming of the file, with undocumented workers paying billions in taxes for retirement benefits they will likely never receive.[LINK]

And don't forget that half of all illegals in the United States are Canadians.
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@Greyparrot
Trump lost that poll.

FYI.
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@3RU7AL

no wall or fence is going to be so cheap that you can cut through it with tin snips. and the walls trump was proposing go into the ground to greatly reduce those who try to tunnel. the only way past it will be a ladder and rope. but the wall at least would greatly assist border patrol with technology in slowing down crossers. 

so do you think zero percent of potential crossers will be deterred from trying to cross a wall? throw out a percent, i'm curious.... what percent of people will be deterred from a wall? 
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@3RU7AL
Yeah I am not here to read books. Better fence. I have guns. I said nothing about taxes.i should be ok with slavery to pay less. Are you fucking serious? All for it. Fuck Canada.
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@linate
LOL.
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@linate
no wall or fence is going to be so cheap that you can cut through it with tin snips.
The wall used in the video example is built to the exact specifications proposed by G. W. Bush.

and the walls trump was proposing go into the ground to greatly reduce those who try to tunnel.
Border official shows Trump tunnels under wall - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYTypmEBE5Q

so do you think zero percent of potential crossers will be deterred from trying to cross a wall? throw out a percent, i'm curious.... what percent of people will be deterred from a wall? 
First of all, increased patrols and drones and cameras and fixing already existing systems will stop way more people for LESS MONEY.

Secondly, zero sounds like a fair percentage.  Crossing the border is not easy.  People pay thousands of dollars and still have to travel long distances over very rough terrain and risk serious injury or death to cross the border.  A little rope or a ladder is not going to add significant cost or risk.  If there's enough money involved, bribes to patrol agents and or other local officials is also not out of the question.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yeah I am not here to read books. Better fence. I have guns. I said nothing about taxes.i should be ok with slavery to pay less. Are you fucking serious? All for it. Fuck Canada.
Murder sounds like an ideal solution?
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@3RU7AL
Better the country dies. You are right. Nothing but trash and white devils anyway.

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@FaustianJustice
Good. Then let Trump build his wall and let Demorats blame him so he can be roundly defeated in 2020 for building it. 5 billion tax payer dollars is surely worth getting rid of Trump....
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@3RU7AL
Lol. Good thing we have as many records of illegals crossing the desert as we do in Airports. oh wait...

Of course of the Millions of illegals many sleeping on the ground or in tents in California...half of those came by LAX of course. Huh.


In any case whether it's 500,000 or 500. Build the wall. Maga.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Better the country dies. You are right. Nothing but trash and white devils anyway.
The United States is a nation of immigrants.

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The United States is a nation of immigrants.
Not true. That is a mythological story started by Nancy Pelois and the Clintons.

All free market Trumpanzees came from two pre USA  ancestors of idiu-ump  -- Atom and Urania--  who lived in NY before the paleolithic peoples some 6000 years ago not the false 16,0000 years ao.

Mike Pence ancestors were the first children of Atom and Urania.  

Atom and Urania were a combination of gold{ orange tint } and uranium{ hot }.  The hot uranium melted the gold and the two united as one 15 story high tower of rock like caves surrounded by a river that was as green as a freshly  minted dollar bill.

Atom and Urania had many had many children that intermingled and produced more children.









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@3RU7AL
Immigrants are those who enter legally. The rest are criminals. But I expect you are ok with that since you hate the country.
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Lol. Good thing we have as many records of illegals crossing the desert as we do in Airports. oh wait...
Of course of the Millions of illegals many sleeping on the ground or in tents in California...half of those came by LAX of course. Huh.
In any case whether it's 500,000 or 500. Build the wall. Maga.
You'd spend 5 billion dollars to stop 500 people?

The U.S. Coast Guard currently, even before "the shutdown" only has the manpower and resources to stop 25% of the KNOWN drug shipments.

To be perfectly clear, this means that they have reliable intelligence telling them when and where large drug shipments are being delivered and they cannot intercept 75% of them.


Will Hurd, former CIA undercover agent and current republican representative from Texas (and whose district covers 40% of the proposed border wall) points out that a wall is pointless without the manpower to patrol it.  His recommendation is to lay underground fiber optic cable along the border and attach sensors that would detect people crossing the border so agents could be deployed to intercept them. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJQjZO30RRg

Breaching a super spectacular hyper magical awesome 200 foot tall concrete and steel wall is easy.

If people living in caves in the middle east can shoot down helicopters with RPG's I have no doubt that the big scary drug cartels can get ahold of some mortar shells.  Or one of these - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_80gWlDQdHg

And if you don't want a loud ka-boom, try this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msV1xnW3Gbc

The Cracker is a non-explosive cracking agent. It comes in powder form and is mixed with water. It will break concrete in four hours when mixed and poured into predrilled holes in concrete. To buy, visit www.atcepoxy.com and click on the "Where to Buy" tab.

It looks like they ship to Matamoros.
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@Polytheist-Witch
immigrant
im·mi·grant | \ ˈi-mə-grənt  \
Definition of immigrant
one that immigrates: such as
a a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence
b a plant or animal that becomes established in an area where it was previously unknown


But I'm sure the people that came across on the fabled Mayflower were properly screened and processed before setting foot in the New World.
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@3RU7AL
If you want to be a douche and bring up crap from before the nation was a nation with rules and laws to make your point you can but what my grandma though of immigration matters not since she is dead. If you can't understand modern laws and rules you have a serious problem but you seem ok with crime. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you want to be a douche and bring up crap from before the nation was a nation with rules and laws to make your point you can but what my grandma though of immigration matters not since she is dead. If you can't understand modern laws and rules you have a serious problem but you seem ok with crime. 
We basically agree that people should follow proper procedure.

That's why we need a smart border instead of a forceless mascot wall.
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@3RU7AL
No we obviously don't. 

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@3RU7AL
Ask any of the people who lost loved ones to illegal invaders or terrorists if 500 is okay and acceptable.

We had enough of this postmodernist crap with the "new normal" under Obama.

Enough. Build Wall. Maga.


You want open borders like we had 100 years ago? Repeal welfare then like the country operated 100 years ago.

The wall is the price of a welfare state. Deal with it.
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@Greyparrot
Want people off welfare quit giving out narcan when they OD. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
Drugs are cheaper than healthcare of course.
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@Greyparrot
Ask any of the people who lost loved ones to illegal invaders or terrorists if 500 is okay and acceptable.
From the conservative CATO institute:

Our headline finding is that both illegal immigrants and legal immigrants have incarceration rates far below those of native-born Americans—at 0.85 percent, 0.47 percent, and 1.53 percent, respectively. Excluding illegal immigrants who are incarcerated or in detention for immigration offenses lowers their incarceration rate to 0.5 percent of their population—within a smidge of legal immigrants. As a result, native-born Americans are overrepresented in the incarcerated population while illegal and legal immigrants are underrepresented, relative to their respective shares of the population. 
We had enough of this postmodernist crap with the "new normal" under Obama.
Please explain.

Enough. Build Wall. Maga.
Increased patrols and drones and cameras will stop more immigrants than a wall.

You want open borders like we had 100 years ago? Repeal welfare then like the country operated 100 years ago.
Literally nobody is suggesting "open borders".  This is an obvious false choice straw-man.

The wall is the price of a welfare state. Deal with it.
The forceless mascot wall is pointless.  Your comparison is a non-sequitur.
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@3RU7AL
Increased patrols and drones and cameras will stop more immigrants than a wall.
So what?

If the wall stops 500 potential killers it's still worth it.

You don't sound very convincing that you are serious about this problem, neither does Pelosi.
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@Greyparrot
Increased patrols and drones and cameras will stop more immigrants than a wall.
So what?
If the wall stops 500 potential killers it's still worth it.
You don't sound very convincing that you are serious about this problem, neither does Pelosi.
The wall stops zero people.

Breaching a super spectacular hyper magical awesome 200 foot tall concrete and steel wall is easy.

If people living in caves in the middle east can shoot down helicopters with RPG's I have no doubt that the big scary drug cartels can get ahold of some mortar shells.  Or one of these - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_80gWlDQdHg

And if you don't want a loud ka-boom, try this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msV1xnW3Gbc

The Cracker is a non-explosive cracking agent. It comes in powder form and is mixed with water. It will break concrete in four hours when mixed and poured into predrilled holes in concrete. To buy, visit www.atcepoxy.com and click on the "Where to Buy" tab.

It looks like they ship to Matamoros.
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@3RU7AL
Jim Acosta already debunked your urban myth that walls do not work.




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@Greyparrot
Jim Acosta already debunked your urban myth that walls do not work.
You don't seem to understand what constitutes evidence.

There are many regions of the border with no wall at all and they are not overrun with traffic either.