The Euthyphro dilemma is a serious problem for theists

Author: Analgesic.Spectre

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Stronn
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@Mopac
Nothing there about God's word. Anyway, it is pretty incoherent.

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@keithprosser
Yes, that is one way to resolve it.

The dilemma is only a problem if you subscribe to divine command theory.
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@Stronn
Yes, that is one way to resolve it.
The down side is having to work out a god-free moral theory

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@keithprosser
That's simple enough.

An action is moral to the extent that a reasonable person would expect it to increase the well-being or reduce the suffering of sentient creatures.

An action is immoral to the extent that a reasonable person would expect it to decrease the well-being or increase the suffering of sentient creatures.

The tricky part is attempting to rigorously define well-being and suffering.
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@Stronn
An action is moral to the extent that a reasonable person would expect it to increase the well-being or reduce the suffering of sentient creatures.
An action is immoral to the extent that a reasonable person would expect it to decrease the well-being or increase the suffering of sentient creatures.
But can you answer "Why should Stronn be moral?".


Mopac
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@Stronn
The Word is God's Word.




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@keithprosser
Sure. If you accept that an increase in well-being or a decrease in suffering is good, then this is reason enough to be moral.
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What is the difference between God and God's Word?

If there is no difference, then that Bible verse means "In the beginning was God, and God was with God, and God was God." which is just a tautology.

If there is a difference, then your statement that God's Word is the Truth is at odds with your statement that God is The Truth, since The Truth cannot be two different things.
Mopac
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@Stronn
Well, we are talking about The Trinity now.


3 Hypostases, Homoousios


The Word is The Most Perfect Image of God. The Truth. It is The Son in The Trinity.

We know The Father by The Holy Spirit which proceeds from The Father through The Son begotten of The Father.

The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth.

1 God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit.


The Supreme Being is God. The Ultimate Reality.

Now if you can understand what I am saying, and see how it is true, that is very good! If not, I don't think me explaining it any more would help.

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@Mopac
Your "explanation" is a good example of why I find most religious claims to be nonsensical. I could ask for more  precise definitions but experience has taught me that I would just get more layers of b.s.

There is nothing in God being defined as The Truth that in any way implies a trinity. You are therefore pulling a bait and switch when you constantly argue that God simply means The Truth,  then suddenly add specific Christian doctrine like the trinity to the mix. We both know that what you really believe is that God means The Truth as revealed by the Bible and your church.  Yet you always omit the second (and far more important) part.

Guess what? Even if people used your definition that God means The Truth, it would not help them one iota in evaluating any religious claims.
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@Stronn
I'm almost happy to say 'truth is my god'.  I say 'almost' because while I think the truth is incredibly important, I don't worship it or think the truth has any of the properties or qualities normally associated with the word 'god'.  

I've often tried to pin down what a god is, in the sense of what sort of thing the word refers to.  The big bang created the universe,but the big bang isn't called a god.  Historically a 'god' did not have to possess infinite powers.  Would YHWH still be a god if he was only massively powerful - powerful enouh to create a universe in 6 days -  but not literally infinite in power?  Does a god have manifest consciousness?   I think so - why worship something that is not aware of it?   I assume that idol and sun worshippers imagined their totems were conscious!

So the truth is my 'god', but only in a very loose and figurative sense.

i'm an atheist because I reject the supernatural - I don't reject the supernatural because I am an atheist.

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@Stronn
No, it's a way of explaining that there is a difference between the experience of truth and the truth itself.

Which is why we have the trinity.

You don't understand it, so you dismiss it as nonsense when really it is nonsense.. to you.


What do we do with the trinity? We acknowledge the medium. Who else does this? 


You know, there is a difference between a picture of a cow and a living breathing cow in front of you.


Now imagine for a moment that the only way we could see The Truth is through a picture of The Truth. 


So when we experience God who is The Ultimate Reality, we are doing it towards God in Truth with a spirit of Truth.

And that is as close as you are going to get with it.


And the reason why they are all 1 is because it is The Truth we are talking about!



 And if none of that makes sense to you, it isn't because it is nonsense. It is called a mystery for a reason! 
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@keithprosser

You think the truth is incredibly important. You don't believe it is the most important.

And that is why I say you have idols before God.