Conservative Anxiety

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Swagnarok
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A lot of conservative politics are predicated on ideas which, though objectively true, the left has sunk a lot of effort into making the direct communication of taboo. Hence, Republicans often have to walk around them, which can be awkward at times. Below I will break this taboo and name what these ideas are:

1. All racial groups in the United States have a positive in-group bias and a negative out-group bias, not just whites. In principle, anti-white racism is just as bad as anti-minority racism. In substance, anti-white racism is just as much a current threat to the rights of white Americans as anti-minority racism is to the rights of non-white Americans, even if the opposite was true 50+ years ago. In terms of cross-racial violent crimes, whites commit a disproportionately small number relative to their share of the population, and it plausibly might be the case that an outright majority are committed by non-white perpetrators against white victims. The occasional terror attack by a white supremacist against non-whites does not change this. For every one of these, there's a hundred or even a thousand single-victim incidents that don't make national headlines but are just as reprehensible.

2. Efforts to challenge anti-minority racism by whites are almost always undertaken in bad faith, because the anti-white biases of minority groups are not equally challenged, which makes said efforts merely a rhetorical bludgeon against whites. This is also counterproductive because it actively takes scrutiny off minority groups when it comes to their own problematic attitudes, making it less likely that they will change in the future, and it unduly fuels their sense of grievance toward whites, which can and often does translate to increased hostility and transgression.

3. A few of the demands of BLM were reasonable, such as body cams for police and being more proactive in trying officers who kill civilians under circumstances which might plausibly be murder. But the other demands were unreasonable, such as laxening our criminal code and incarcerating fewer people. It is incumbent on criminals not to break the law, and they are not entitled to have the consequences of their own crimes mitigated. If a disproportionately large number of black Americans suffer a worsened quality of life because they committed crimes, that's their problem. If disproportionately few privileged upper class whites are prosecuted for, say, recreational drug use, then the law ought to be enforced more consistently but the mere fact of said disparity does not entitled convicted criminals to get off the hook. The US may or may not laxen its drug laws in the future, whether for better or for worse, but those who knowingly break these laws while they're in effect deserve imprisonment and whatever the enduring consequences afterward. This is especially true for those who not only use but also deal drugs.

4. Too much democracy is a bad thing, because this always translates to a great many poor redistributing (i.e. stealing through "legal" means) from the rich, violating their property rights, or borrowing in the public name, which raises the national debt. It's morally justified to lessen the degree of democracy if there's nothing else that can be done to prevent this outcome, though oligarchy is also bad. Additionally, there's a de facto correlation between poverty and being part of a minority group. The more immigrants from poor countries who enter the US, the more the power of that voting bloc which would violate the property rights of the rich or raise the national debt.

5. That Asian and Jewish Americans are a "model" minority is not a racist or problematic idea. It's what every minority group in the US should've aspired to, but which many have fallen short of being. Had black Americans behaved like their Asian counterparts the last 50 years, the black-white income gap would've shrunk to less than 10% nationwide, assuming blacks didn't eventually surpass whites. Whatever the private prejudices of the capitalist class, they will in the aggregate do business with whomever it shows itself to be profitable. The reason why black Americans haven't escaped poverty is because their ancestors fell into costly behavior traps, which became intergenerational cycles. They chafe at the idea of the model minority because a large class of upper class Chinese-Americans, whose ancestors were once hated and discriminated against by whites, is a constant reminder to them that they've failed to improve their own lot.

6. If black Americans and so on wish to escape poverty, the only way out is to either escape said behavioral traps or adequately compensate for them through some virtue, like a strong entrepreneurial spirit. They vote Democrat in hopes of unmerited, harmful to others, and ultimately counterproductive to themselves shortcuts, and they resent Republicans for blocking this agenda.

7. None of the above is "bigotry". It is the plain truth, albeit a truth which most people have been cowed into silence when it comes to. Minority groups certainly will not take to heart criticisms that nobody save for avowed white supremacists are willing to tell them in the first place; since reconciliation is a two-way street that requires both parties to acknowledge what they're doing wrong, the existence of said taboo makes reconciliation impossible and will continue to perpetuate racial conflict going forward.
ILikePie5
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Badger is backkkk
badger
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@Swagnarok
I think that's a good post. Do you think if America was an ethnically homogenous country free healthcare and free college would be an easier sell?
badger
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@Discipulus_Didicit
It's Grammarly on steroids dude. I gave it bullet points.
WyIted
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I think that's a good post. Do you think if America was an ethnically homogenous country free healthcare and free college would be an easier sell?
I think it would be a harder sell. The founding myth is of rugged outdoors men who stood on their own 2 feet. You also have a large libertarian population. 


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@WyIted
 free healthcare and free college would be an easier sell?

Public education in America began around early 19th century, in Massachusetts. Public education was promoted as the means of creating informed citizens which helps lower poverty and strengthens democracy. Horace Mann was the guy that spearheaded it. The concept was sold to the public as a civic duty, and mostly preparing individuals for industrial jobs, thus boosting the economy. It wasn't sold to the public (sell is the correct word as they pay for it) by misnaming it as "free education" It was promoted as a civic duty.

Since the renaming of civic duties into "free stuff," nearly all government services from education to healthcare suffered as it implied people didn't need to worry about the cost, therefore the implementation didn't matter, despite how obviously inefficient it was. We have had way over 50 years of "progressives" increasingly borrowing and tossing good money after bad at a "free" education system that has declined every year. We don't need outdated "industrial education" anymore with today's economy where you can learn all that online or at a trade school. The real sell isn't "free stuff" anymore. It's convincing people to care again about the things they are already paying for and to care about a debt their kids will have to cover at some point. The government subsidized American colleges so much the last 50 years that tuition is now near the cost of a house. That is the true cost of "free stuff." People just need to care again about what they are already paying for enough to demand better.

Canada has "free" healthcare but the people paying for the service do not get to manage it, so they have all sorts of problems, inefficiencies,  and shortages. (especially doctor shortages)
Massachusetts has "free" healthcare, but the people paying for the services have way more say in how the resources are managed. They call it Masshealth though and not "free" healthcare.

badger
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@WyIted
Doubt it. There's two really unique things about America amongst developed nations: the racial circumstances around a freed slave minority and the lack of universal healthcare and free college. There's only one reason rednecks Americans are voting against free healthcare. It isn't cowboy movies. 
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@badger
I find conservatives are far more likely to lose composure or "crack" than liberals because liberals stand steadfast on a pillar of humanity. And it amuses me.
Correct; the left is consistently against unwanted pain; the right therefore is more sadistic.  Don't like being with a sadist party?  Then leave the conservative party; like what do you want me to tell you?
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@Swagnarok
I think that's a good post. Do you think if America was an ethnically homogenous country free healthcare and free college would be an easier sell?

Still curious as to an answer here when you get the chance. I find you a thoughtful person generally and I don't find much wrong in anything you've written in this thread. Or so much wrong anyway. But then I wonder how many liberals would? Pretty sure liberals don't want poverty, welfare and crime for black people. The need for affirmative action might have been obviated by free college in general. Does seem more of a band aid fix. And that's All Lives Matter for you too. I don't think anyone thinks you're bigoted because you'd like to see less crime, less unemployment, less dependency on welfare. There's discussions to be had there.

It's this stuff I think is bigoted. Trump gets elected and you see an 86% increase in anti-Semetic incidents in 2017. 91% increase and anti-Muslim hate crimes. Let alone all the trans antagonism. 

What are you hitching your wagon to here? Black crime is a problem, sure. I'm sure a lot of liberals would love to solve it.

But it looks to me like the Nazis are coming over the hill. I guess maybe you were thinking more of a final solution.

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@badger
Do you think if America was an ethnically homogenous country free healthcare and free college would be an easier sell?
No. The notion that "every Republican knows deep down universal healthcare would be great but he'll vote to keep himself from having it just so a random black stranger also doesn't have it" is absurd. That's not how people behave in real life.

There are legitimate reasons to be wary of universal healthcare. If you don't like the quality of healthcare you get at one hospital or clinic, you can attempt to find a better deal elsewhere. But if everything is government-run and you don't like it, then there is no escape. The quality of service should be the same everywhere. You also just have to trust that the state won't start treating healthcare as a rationed good and that it won't exclude you for some arbitrary reason, say, because they don't like your speech or you have a criminal record. Or like in real-life contemporary Canada, where people who need expensive hip replacement surgeries or a not that expensive stairlift are offered euthanasia instead to save a quick buck.

In short, Dems have a lot more trust in the goodwill and competency of the government, today and in the future, than Republicans do. The latter doesn't want to give a monopoly to a single actor on something as important as healthcare. Now, it's possible that low trust in government is a side effect of a low-trust society, which political scientist Robert Putnam largely attributes to racial diversification of previously homogenous communities. But this doesn't equal "blacks would get free healthcare, therefore free healthcare bad".

Same with free college.
From a personal anecdote, I got good grades on the ACT Test (a college entrance exam in the US) and my state government gave me a free ride to attend a college in my local area for 4 years. I picked a major haphazardly and gave no serious thought to what my career prospects would be afterwards. After I graduated, the next 5-6 years of my life weren't great. I have a decent job today, and I guess it could be considered a highly prestigious one if I simply described it without further context as to why it isn't, but in any case I'm not making a ton of money. About $40K a year, before you deduct for health, dental, and a retirement savings account.

In a free market, nobody would've lent to my dumbass 19 year old self unless they were certain I could pay off the loan afterward, meaning they were reasonably sure I'd land a job wherein I could afford to do so. I would've had to grow up and come up with an actual post-graduation plan, or delay college until this point (in hindsight I wish I would've, because I had zero maturity in college and cringe every time I think back on then). Free college would churn out a hundred million more people like me. It'd cost taxpayers a fortune and it'd be a staggering waste.
badger
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@Swagnarok
No. The notion that "every Republican knows deep down universal healthcare would be great but he'll vote to keep himself from having it just so a random black stranger also doesn't have it" is absurd. That's not how people behave in real life.
The whole world knows its great. Every reputable world health organisation has America as having the worst healthcare outcomes whilst paying the most. You have American people devastated financially by illness all the time. Universal healthcare is peace of mind. Any ordinary person wants that. You gotta wonder why the ordinary American doesn't. Maybe because it's all tied up with other black friendly ideas like affirmative action by those do-gooder liberals.
Swagnarok
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@badger
The whole world knows its great

The whole world is filled with countries whose people live far healthier lives than the average American. They are cheap to treat, and nationalizing healthcare wouldn't do much to screw this up. If you want to approach this from a "the evidence shows X" standpoint, then what this would require is a study (or national "case study") that controls for these factors.

Also, something like 40% of Americans are enrolled in Medicare, Medicaid, or CHIP (which gives healthcare to children). We are not as far removed policy-wise from Europe as you think. Yet, our healthcare sucks.
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@Swagnarok
The propaganda machine has equated "distrust" in the government to = "racism"

It shows glaringly in the responses to your posts.
badger
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@Swagnarok
The whole world is filled with countries whose people live far healthier lives than the average American. They are cheap to treat, and nationalizing healthcare wouldn't do much to screw this up. If you want to approach this from a "the evidence shows X" standpoint, then what this would require is a study (or national "case study") that controls for these factors.

You might be right. You're obviously a clever guy. Not the point I'm getting at either way. It's interesting that the mass of ordinary Americans seem to be against universal healthcare.