Proving a negative.

Author: Mall

Posts

Total: 59
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
Being that proving a negative is next to impossible according to atheists, what is the sense in being an atheist?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,550
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Mall
A negative claim is the opposite of an affirmative or positive claim. It asserts the non-existence or exclusion of something. Logicians and philosophers of logic reject the notion that it is intrinsically impossible to prove negative claims.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,550
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
Philosophers Steven D. Hale and Stephen Law state that the phrase "you cannot prove a negative" is itself a negative claim that would not be true if it could be proven true.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 354
Posts: 10,534
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Mall
what is the sense in being an atheist?

So far the world was run by religious people.

All we got from that was war, poverty, violence and stupidity.

So unless you want to keep trying what didnt work for 2000 years, I suggest we move to atheism now.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mall
Being that proving a negative is next to impossible according to atheists, what is the sense in being an atheist?
atheists make NO claim

they are simply UNconvinced

by the claims of theists
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mall
㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
Moozer325
Moozer325's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 1,170
3
2
8
Moozer325's avatar
Moozer325
3
2
8
-->
@Mall
It’s the lack of evidence that turns me away.

zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,051
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mall
How does one know what is actually positive, and therefore it's opposite.

If we actually knew, then we could prove both.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,888
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@zedvictor4
How does one know what is actually positive, and therefore it's opposite.
All these troll type threads are inherently negative.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@FLRW
Oh so it's possible to disprove the negative.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Best.Korea
You'd have a point if atheism didn't exist. Maybe if it didn't, we wouldn't have all that mess you brought up.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@3RU7AL
By why believe any god doesn't exist?

If an atheist is unconvinced that any god doesn't exist, why believe that any god doesn't?

This is why atheism is more on the religious side and classified as such. It's not a neutral ground and it takes a stance of positive and negative.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Moozer325
There are many things that lack evidence for us to see. It doesn't make a strong argument to disbelieve.

When atheists say that, it's more to it than it. It's just easiest, shortest route to summarizing their position.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@zedvictor4
Like testing positive for a drug in a test. It's either physically detected or it is not which is called negative.


Moozer325
Moozer325's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 1,170
3
2
8
Moozer325's avatar
Moozer325
3
2
8
-->
@Mall
Normally yes, but when you’re talking about and all-knowing and all-powerful creator, it seems like he would have revealed himself more broadly by now. Also, just as a lack of evidence isn’t completely justification for not believing in god, it is certainly not justification for saying he is real.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Moozer325
Sounds like from what you're saying "it seems like", God doesn't exist because it doesn't make sense or it doesn't logically follow which like I said it's more to it than simply "a lack of evidence" stance.

However this still doesn't suffice as many things exist we don't understand but they do indeed exist.


Eventually we going to have to get to the root of it all, which it is almost always a subjective experience/emotional basis to the individual atheist that has opted to believe a particular God doesn't exist.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,051
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mall
Called negative.
Precisely.


Just like we call a banana a banana.

But how do we know that a banana isn't actually a lemon.


Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@zedvictor4
It's because we know what a lemon is.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,051
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mall
Yes, because we call it a lemon.

In so much as it's a simulated image, to which we apply a label.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,888
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@zedvictor4
Yes, because we call it a lemon.

A lemon has outer convex positive convex (   )

A torus had outer convex positive curvature and inner negative concave curvature in two diretions.  (    ()      )

Both of above are self-evident visual proof and when held in hand a tactile proof.  The proof is in the pudding so to say.


3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mall
By why believe any god doesn't exist?
great point

i guess that's why you worship thor
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@zedvictor4
We can identify and differentiate. We have labels to communicate what we're identifying and differentiating.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@3RU7AL
The answer to why an atheist believes no God exist is based on his subjective experience.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mall
The answer to why an atheist believes no God exist is based on his subjective experience.
how is that any different from the theist ?
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 395
Posts: 1,776
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@3RU7AL
It isn't, that's the point. Atheists believe they are different in that regard, they're not. 

Thank you.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mall
It isn't, that's the point. Atheists believe they are different in that regard, they're not. 
it's been my experience that the theist tends to claim "objective truth"

and the atheist tends to claim "subjective truth"
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,051
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mall
Certainly.

Within the context of the internal management and assessment of incoming data signals..

This is how we proceed.

With a Lemon.

Whereas negative and GOD, are entirely abstract concepts.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,051
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@ebuc
So we fondle an object whilst focussing our optical sensors upon it.

Then what?

We convert signals into a simulated internal image and then label said object in accordance with a collectively established idea.

Similar with lemon flavour.

Did you know that taste is actually created in the brain and not inside the mouth.

Same with smell.

Aromas and smells are created in the brain. Externally, smells are not present.

Crazy but true.


ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,888
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@zedvictor4
So we fondle an object whilst focussing our optical sensors upon it.

That should read and/or seperately i.e. either way or both are acceptable logical, common sense critical thinking apllications to grasping positive and negative curvature via a torus

Then what? We convert signals into a simulated internal image and then label said object in accordance with a collectively established idea.
We convert those physical ascertained object into subjective applied concepts of positive and negative curvature. Thats what humans do via their access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego.

Similar with lemon flavour.
Ive never heard of a human that conceives of postive and negative curvature from taste.  Maybe you have. I dunno

Did you know that taste is actually created in the brain and not inside the mouth.
Duh yeah, Zed, however, again, if humans determine negative and positive curvature from taste ---in of itself--- Im not familiar---. Please share that info link if you have it.

Same with smell.
And again, same as my response to your taste comments above.

Aromas and smells are created in the brain. Externally, smells are not present. Crazy but true.

True yes crazy no, and again Im not aware of humans conceiving of negative and positive curvature via taste or smell. Please share the info link if you have it.

I started this conversation with you at #20 as I believe it related to topic thread proving a negative.  I brought negative curvature into the thread at #20.


zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,051
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@ebuc
Just pointing out that internal systems function independently of the mind.


Proving a negative?


For me, a cute female backside is positively curved.

Whereas a big fat woman gets a negative response.

Just call me old fashioned.