As of yet there is 0 evidence for science to look at and examine that would indicate there is any life anywhere other than planet earth.
Open-minded scientists at last
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@sadolite
Well, there either is or there isn't life elsewhere in the Universe.
Which is reason enough to examine the possibility.
Spatial probability relative to physical laws is also indicative enough.
The lack of actual physical or definitive sensory evidence is not a reason to not examine a probability based possibility.
SETI has got to be the biggest waste of money. They have not found any proof for intelligent life yet but they want to boost it's abilities.
The thought that aliens exist is always a fun topic, but there is just no proof. UFO's exist, but it not proven that they are flown by aliens.
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@zedvictor4
Well if you want to examine nothing, be my guest. Any findings you come up with will be at best pure speculation based on nothing.
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@zedvictor4
The lack of actual physical or definitive sensory evidence is not a reason to not examine a probability based possibility.
Yet in examining the possibility one is confronted by the debilitating lack of data.
It is when the given information is sparse that careful inference is most important, hence the solutions to the fermi paradox are the best effort to limiting the range of uncertainty.
It's not immediately obvious why we should believe there are no aliens (anywhere near here) but when armed with the known laws of physics one can carefully game out the possible solution to the paradox and find that rather than "are we alone" we should shift our focus to another dichotomy that aligns better with how we can act in the different scenarios:
1.) We're alone, or we're first (which means alone), or we're so far from another civilization that we may as well be alone for the life of the universe (which means alone)
2.) They're already here, "alien zoo" and sure there are a hundred variants but they all answer the question of "where are they" with "they don't want you to know". Of course by "they" I mean the artificial or rebuilt natural intelligence of the consensus that dominated this system.
Note the lack of "they're coming for our resources, it's an arms race; yada yada" on geologic and galactic scales (time and matter) those scenarios don't make sense.
Note that (1) doesn't mean life is rare, it means civilization is rare. We could find some form of life in half the systems but for civilization to be rare that almost implies intelligence is almost as rare which means that life will be boring.
(2) means the ball is not in our court and there is no clue as to how we should behave to change any potential outcome. You can't plan to please a god with no idea what it values. I suppose at the very least you could infer that they don't subscribe to the dark forest theory (which was never very plausible) or else they would have deleted life on Earth as soon as they got here. Therefore I guess you could constrain the outer edge how we ought to behave to please them by excluding irrational xenophobia.
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@DavidAZZ
SETI has got to be the biggest waste of money. They have not found any proof for intelligent life yet but they want to boost it's abilities.
SETI is the perfect example of how empiricism can be irrational.
In the blind need for data they set out on a mission which had they thought it through (as we have now through the medium of sci-fi as much as anything else) was predictably pointless.
It is obvious that it costs far less energy to send out a pulse of self-replicating probes than to send radio signals to random star systems at levels that would be detectable by unknown and possibly non-existent antennas.
In fact if you were an advanced civilization you would of course master your own production chain before you seriously invested resources in interstellar contact projects and in that context enormously powerful detectors are far more efficient than enormously powerful transmitters.
SETI was a whisper in the storm begging for a much much more powerful civilization to bridge the enormous gap. In order to detect a SETI signal from another system they would have to build (ignoring made up technology) detectors bigger than our largest cities in deep space. In order for us to detect a contact signal from another system they would need transmitters that are "louder"(brighter) than a 100 of our largest fusion bombs (per bit).
That's crazy. What makes sense (again) is to send out probes carrying the information that they want... or if possible (and it does seem possible) the agenda they want. If a back and forth communication is necessary after first contact from a probe it could be accomplished infinitely more efficiently by targeting the specific planet with a coherent beam (think laser communications).
The thought that aliens exist is always a fun topic, but there is just no proof. UFO's exist, but it not proven that they are flown by aliens.
Given that humanity has been around for a million years it's actually more likely that humans colonized alpha centauri and came back than for genuine aliens to have visited. Not that I think that scenario is likely, but it is the only thing that would explain a humanoid appearance which many report even if you take all these encounters seriously.
If it came down to absolute proof that humanoids genuinely originated from a planet other than Earth that pretty much confirms an intelligent creator. A common cause is necessary and if it's not common origin it's common design.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
2.) They're already here, "alien zoo" and sure there are a hundred variants but they all answer the question of "where are they" with "they don't want you to know". Of course by "they" I mean the artificial or rebuilt natural intelligence of the consensus that dominated this system.
Are you sure it's the aliens that don't want us to know or it's the military and political power that don't want so?
Most of the alien stories come from the military, specially the air force. It's no surprise that there is more and more pressure in the us congress to reveal what the military knows about it.
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@IlDiavolo
2.) They're already here, "alien zoo" and sure there are a hundred variants but they all answer the question of "where are they" with "they don't want you to know". Of course by "they" I mean the artificial or rebuilt natural intelligence of the consensus that dominated this system.Are you sure it's the aliens that don't want us to know or it's the military and political power that don't want so?
Yes, unless the military is threatening to kill us all if the aliens go public.
There is no way for governments to block communication by physical means.
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@DavidAZZ
The thought that aliens exist is always a fun topic, but there is just no proof. UFO's exist, but it not proven that they are flown by aliens.
This is a video that I once showed in this forum, maybe you didn't have the opportunity to watch it. I consider it as the best and clearest evidence of a real alien craft.
And yeah, nobody knows if these ships are flown by aliens, but there are testimonies of it, specially from the military. There are many officials that know a lot of crazy stuff about it but can't say anything because they are not allowed.
But don't worry, most of us in this forum will see the arrival at the earth of many alien ships of different types and from many alien civilizations, consider yourself lucky to witness such an incredible event.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Yes, unless the military is threatening to kill us all if the aliens go public.There is no way for governments to block communication by physical means.
Aliens have always been getting themselves noticed, that's why there are many stories of abduction. And the stories of demons in the past are probably stories of aliens.
And I think this is part of the aliens' plan to get the human beings conscious about their existence. Thanks to these abduction stories, there have been so many movies, series and cartoons about it. The military should have done their part to speed up the arrival of these aliens and get known by all of us, but they didnt'. Either way, I think people are enough ready to know the truth, the time is close.
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@IlDiavolo
"Getting yourself noticed" does not mean abducting people and sneaking around. This is a lot like the ninja god (the god of the bible) who changes the fates of nations (in the deep past believe us) but won't answer a text message.Yes, unless the military is threatening to kill us all if the aliens go public.There is no way for governments to block communication by physical means.Aliens have always been getting themselves noticed, that's why there are many stories of abduction. And the stories of demons in the past are probably stories of aliens.
And I think this is part of the aliens' plan to get the human beings conscious about their existence. Thanks to these abduction stories, there have been so many movies, series and cartoons about it. The military should have done their part to speed up the arrival of these aliens and get known by all of us. Anyway, I think people are enough ready to know the truth, the time is close.
If they're hiding till we're "ready" that means they were (and are) hiding.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
It's evident, if aliens see that humanity accept the existence of them they will be more confident to show up.Oh yeah kinda like how humans never visit the bottom of the ocean because life there doesn't know we exist.
I don't think this is a good comparison of what I said.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If they're hiding till we're "ready" that means they were (and are) hiding.
They showed up to some selected people, also known as contactees. I don't think showing up to everyone is a good idea to get noticed, considering that people are not ready to this kind of contact.
"Getting yourself noticed" does not mean abducting people and sneaking around.
Sneaking around? Did you read the uncountable testomonies of UFO sightings? There have been direct contact too.
From what I can make out, these aliens want us to know about their existance through the testimony of selected people. I think that's fair enough.
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@IlDiavolo
Nah it's a pretty good analogy.
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@IlDiavolo
From what I can make out, these aliens want us to know about their existance through the testimony of selected people. I think that's fair enough.
I don't think that's fair. It doesn't make sense, just as it doesn't make sense for god to contact humanity through prophets.
If that is what they're truly doing then the only logical conclusion is that their goals are malicious as the only thing that strategy accomplishes is creating a loyal following of people with too much faith and too little critical thinking. People who would be easily manipulated into acting against the best interests of Earth and humanity.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I don't think that's fair. It doesn't make sense, just as it doesn't make sense for god to contact humanity through prophets.If that is what they're truly doing then the only logical conclusion is that their goals are malicious as the only thing that strategy accomplishes is creating a loyal following of people with too much faith and too little critical thinking. People who would be easily manipulated into acting against the best interests of Earth and humanity.
Are you assuming most people are able to have an alien encounter hands down? Hahaha. C'mon, man. You say those things only because you can write it. You're totally unaware that you would crap in your pants if an alien showed up in your room all of a sudden.
Many contactees described their first alien encounter as traumatic. So, I think it's totally fair that the aliens use "prophets" to get their message through to people. And I don't see how the contactees can put the interests of earth at risk, they're just communicating and not taking important decisions for humanity.
As far as I'm concerned, people are ready for that encounter. I visited my family last week and this topic just popped up and they told me they are convinced that these aliens exist. We're more ready than ever.
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@sadolite
@ADreamOfLiberty
@DavidAZZ
Perhaps.
As the human situation is seemingly so futile then.
We might just as well waste resources on A as waste them on B.
It will help fill in the time between now and oblivion.
Or pray and fight over imaginary creators.
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@IlDiavolo
I don't think that's fair. It doesn't make sense, just as it doesn't make sense for god to contact humanity through prophets.If that is what they're truly doing then the only logical conclusion is that their goals are malicious as the only thing that strategy accomplishes is creating a loyal following of people with too much faith and too little critical thinking. People who would be easily manipulated into acting against the best interests of Earth and humanity.Are you assuming most people are able to have an alien encounter hands down? Hahaha. C'mon, man. You say those things only because you can write it. You're totally unaware that you would crap in your pants if an alien showed up in your room all of a sudden.
No I agree I would crap my pants if that happened. That's why people call ahead.
Say park in LEO and do zoom calls for a few years before beaming into the bedroom in the middle of the night. Actually there are a few more steps between the two.
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@IlDiavolo
@FLRW
Scientist claims to have witnessed intelligent extraterrestrials at a political rally, only to find out latter,
it was an ex-MAGA, with lost marble, s attempting find intelligent thoughts before returning to large bellied, Orange spacecraft in the sky.
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@IlDiavolo
This is a video that I once showed in this forum, maybe you didn't have the opportunity to watch it. I consider it as the best and clearest evidence of a real alien craft.
That one is pretty neat!
As for the occupants of the craft, do we have any clear video like the one you sent?
I personally think that these are military craft and that is why the government to so "hush hush" about it. Consider the Roswell crash decades ago. If this was a Russian craft that was able to infiltrate about a thousand miles into the western border of the USA during the cold war, then it would be a good idea to make sure the public saw it as a "weather balloon".
Also, the idea of anti-gravity has been a thing since the 1950's and the aircraft makers (Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and other military contractor builders) actually claimed they were on the cusp of it by the 1960's. I believe the book is "The search for zero point" OR "The SS brotherhood of the Bell" mention this and how a man who was a reporter for Jane (aircraft magazine) went out and researched the idea of anti-gravity with our own aircraft manufacturers but it has been kept silent.
What is your take on alien abductees?
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@Stephen
@DavidAZZ
personally think that these are military craft and that is why the government to so "hush hush" about it. Consider the Roswell crash decades ago. If this was a Russian craft that was able to infiltrate about a thousand miles into the western border of the USA during the cold war, then it would be a good idea to make sure the public saw it as a "weather balloon".
This ufo video is from Colombia. What do you think? That this is a craft made up exclusively for drug dealing? 🤔🤣
Also, the idea of anti-gravity has been a thing since the 1950's and the aircraft makers (Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and other military contractor builders) actually claimed they were on the cusp of it by the 1960's. I believe the book is "The search for zero point" OR "The SS brotherhood of the Bell" mention this and how a man who was a reporter for Jane (aircraft magazine) went out and researched the idea of anti-gravity with our own aircraft manufacturers but it has been kept silent.
This kind of sightings are present since the airplane was invented. For example, there are incredible testimonies of pilots in the second world war about it. I don't think russians were that advanced to produce that kind of aircraft. If they had had that tech they would have won the cold war.
What is your take on alien abductees?
Stephen told me about a researcher called Diana Walsh who is investigating the relation between the contactees' experiences and the biblical stories, and one of her conclusions is that they are related.
I dont want to convince you in believing on extraterrestrial life because this researcher lady is not sure either about it. I guess she is pretty sure but she doesn’t want to say anything that is not corroborated by evidence. Either way, anyone with a little bit of common sense can arrive at the conclusion that the ufos are alien crafts and that the biblical stories are in reality alien encounter stories. You just need to compare the stories of the contactees with the biblical stories as well as with many other ancient traditions.
I know it would be shocking for you to realize that you have been believing in a lie all along, but we are not that far from knowing the truth. So, I just want to recommend you to do your research, there is a lot of info on the internet.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
No I agree I would crap my pants if that happened. That's why people call ahead.Say park in LEO and do zoom calls for a few years before beaming into the bedroom in the middle of the night. Actually there are a few more steps between the two.
Whatever the way these aliens show up, any human being would get shocked by it because it's literally something out of this world. Even with an invitation anyone can get shocked.
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@IlDiavolo
You're kind of equivocating here.No I agree I would crap my pants if that happened. That's why people call ahead.Say park in LEO and do zoom calls for a few years before beaming into the bedroom in the middle of the night. Actually there are a few more steps between the two.Whatever the way these aliens show up, any human being would get shocked by it because it's literally something out of this world. Even with an invitation anyone can get shocked.
You said "crap your pants" if they were suddenly in my room, to which I agreed. I would not crap my pants if they were in low Earth orbit. It would be exciting and frightening and maybe a lot of people would have very bad reactions to it but that changes nothing about any of the inferences and statements I've made.
The hypothetical aliens have a choice and they are choosing non-contact. You can't blame human governments (and you know I would if there was any way). If they choose to contact people by randomly appearing in their room I think that's a very very bad sign and it would take extraordinary evidence to make me believe that EVEN given the premise that there are aliens in the system.
That is if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that an interstellar starship was in orbit of Mars I would still strongly doubt aliens are appearing in people's room in the dead of night (or abductions with memory wiping that can be defeated by hypnosis). It just doesn't make sense. The alien mind would have to work so differently from ours or their goals would have to be so bizarre that neither you nor I can imagine or predict them.
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@IlDiavolo
we are not that far from knowing the truth
The hierarchy of church leaders more than likely have know about the alien/god connection for a few hundred if not a few thousand years D.
But they aren't going to give up their lucrative lives by telling the truth.
Look at this Renaissance art, D. I have had literature on this art going back nearly 50 years now.
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@IlDiavolo
This ufo video is from Colombia. What do you think? That this is a craft made up exclusively for drug dealing? 🤔🤣
Doubt it, but it doesn't mean that high tech governments aren't trying to keep tabs on drug lords with fast flying and undetectable craft, while flying in restricted airspace.
For example, there are incredible testimonies of pilots in the second world war about it.
I believe you are referring to the Foo-fighters (play on words for the French word of "Fire" which was Feu) and it was claimed that those belonged to the Germans. They were specifically only seen over the Rhine area where it was later found to have a tech laboratory.
Either way, anyone with a little bit of common sense can arrive at the conclusion that the ufos are alien crafts and that the biblical stories are in reality alien encounter stories.
I can see how you can come to that. Fantastical beings coming from the sky able to do seemingly miraculous things.
I know it would be shocking for you to realize that you have been believing in a lie all along, but we are not that far from knowing the truth
I agree it would be shocking, BUT I do want to know the truth, whether it's shocking or not. I hope the truth comes out about all of this, but for now, I still think it's high tech humans working experiments on people and mind control (see the 1970's and LSD).
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I would not crap my pants if they were in low Earth orbit. It would be exciting and frightening and maybe a lot of people would have very bad reactions to it but that changes nothing about any of the inferences and statements I've made.
When I said "crap your pants" I meant "get frightened". Don't be so literal.
I'm not refering to alien crafts flying around, I refered to alien crafts landing just right in front of you. Many contactees state that when they were in front of these alien crafts they got freezed. It's interesting because it's the same reaction of some prophets in the bible, they get freezed, and as well as contactees, the aliens encourage them to get through.
If there is other life in the universe, has the ability to travel through time and space with tech that we cant even comprehend and even remotely has the same reasoning process as humans you better hope there is no other life in the universe.
8 days later
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@sadolite
If there is other life in the universe, has the ability to travel through time and space with tech that we cant even comprehend and even remotely has the same reasoning process as humans you better hope there is no other life in the universe
The Scriptures do not directly address the question of alien beings. The Bible does not explicitly confirm or deny the existence of intelligent life from other planets. Although the subject is not addressed explicitly, the Bible teaches implicitly that the only things He created with intelligence are the angels, man, and the animals.
It is important to remember that the stars and planets were not created billions of years before Earth. According to the Bible, Earth is not the result of billions of years of stellar evolution during which many other planets were created. Earth was created before any other planet or star existed. Earth came into existence on the first day of Creation (Genesis 1:1). God withheld the creation of the Sun, Moon and stars until the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). Earth is unique and holds center stage in God's Creation.
Planets
Furthermore, the Bible clearly indicates that the fate of the universe (every other planet and star) is forever linked to God's timetable for mankind and the Earth. One day, Christ will return to Earth and complete the final act of man's redemption (2 Peter 3:9-10). He will destroy this present universe and create a new heavens and Earth (2 Peter 3:7,10; Revelations 21:1). All the stars and planets will be destroyed, along with the Earth.
7 days later
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@Best.Korea
I mean, what good will aliens do? Exterminate us or treat us like we treat cows?
99% of the population are already treated as cows, sheep and donkeys. And have been since the dawn of time , BK. Have you never read Genesis "there was no one to work the ground".
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@Stephen
99% of the population are already treated as cows, sheep and donkeys. And have been since the dawn of time , BK. Have you never read Genesis "there was no one to work the ground".
I guess thats true. Looks like God of the Bible created man to work the ground and not to enjoy.