You got them on the run.

Author: Mall
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chicken
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#31
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@Mall
i heard a story told by a high ranking government official about how they "destroyed" one of their detractors in an important meeting

and later, when they bragged about it to their son

the son asked them, "did you convince them you were right ?"

and that's when they realized that simply embarrassing people is far less valuable than actually winning them over to your view
#32
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@cristo71
Yet Type1 won that debate even after failing to convince you. How confusing! I take it, then, that your above framework is not exactly the case?

i was referencing the second scenario

"and it is possible for both sides to win (both sides learn something valuable)"
#33
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@3RU7AL
“Yet Type1 won that debate even after failing to convince you. How confusing! I take it, then, that your above framework is not exactly the case?”

i was referencing the second scenario

"and it is possible for both sides to win (both sides learn something valuable)"
Ok, and that sounds good and all; I truly like the spirit of it… but I neglected to ask you this at the time:

How do you reconcile it with your claim (you even put it in bold!) which you have stated twice, AND which constituted your rebuttal to me:

persuading an audience is an entertaining metric, but it does tend to favor ad hominem attacks


i try to relate debate skill to real-life one-on-one communication

if you fail to convince the person you disagree with

your argument has failed and you have lost the debate
Lastly, I was actually asking for an example of where an opponent was actually convinced, which I have contended all along constitutes a rarity, and you have been taking exception to it… with insufficient evidence thus far.



#34
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@cristo71
Lastly, I was actually asking for an example of where an opponent was actually convinced, which I have contended all along constitutes a rarity, and you have been taking exception to it… with insufficient evidence thus far.




this is a very long conversation about whether or not we should try and stop killing civilians

my interlocutor finally agreed with me after i posted a clip from a bernie sanders speech
#35
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@cristo71
Ok, and that sounds good and all; I truly like the spirit of it… but I neglected to ask you this at the time:
within the debate

i am able to convince type1 of the proper framing of the question (noumenon + quanta + qualia)

there are many points within the debate

where we find agreement
#36
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@3RU7AL
Ok, but it requires a login account to access. And that is merely a single example. As I said earlier, I also know of a single example.

Tell me: is that place… better than here? I surely hope so!

Your glaring contradiction aside, what you appear to advocate isn’t so much a “debate” (implying win/lose or tie) as a dialectic (implying win/win or lose/lose), which would… be great! True dialectics are precious few though (sort of like good debates here, as I said earlier)…
#37
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@cristo71
Tell me: is that place… better than here? I surely hope so!
it's definitely worth the zero dollar membership fee
#38
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@cristo71
Your glaring contradiction aside, what you appear to advocate isn’t so much a “debate” (implying win/lose or tie) as a dialectic (implying win/win or lose/lose), which would… be great! True dialectics are precious few though (sort of like good debates here, as I said earlier)…
everything is a negotiation
#39
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@cristo71
Ok, but it requires a login account to access. And that is merely a single example. As I said earlier, I also know of a single example.
sorry about that, you used to be able to read everything without a logon

i guess maybe they changed it recently to dodge all the gpt bots
#40
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@3RU7AL
I might just check it out. If it’s any good, I would consider that… a win/win.
#41
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@3RU7AL
everything is a negotiation
I’ve actually read Chris Voss’ book. But it is one of those that must be read, practiced, reread, practiced, and so forth…