This is a poll for believers and unbelievers.
What if you were wrong? Would you want to know? And if so, why or why not?
Faith
Posts
Total:
32
What if you were wrong?
Well, I wouldnt be surprised. It is only 1 out of 3000 chance to accuratelly guess the correct God.
-->
@RaymondSheen
This is a poll for believers and unbelievers.What if you were wrong? Would you want to know? And if so, why or why not?
I already do know.
Every major religion claims the ultimate reality is unknowable, the general Philosophical consensus among epistemological and ontological theories claim the ultimate reality is unknowable, science claims the ultimate reality is unknowable.
It’s certainly in our nature to try to find the ultimate answers, and to look for certainty, but in context, we are just at a certain stage of a mind that is still awakening, one that is confronted by and pondering this vast and complex thing in transformation, who can see groups of connected realities but cannot truly and fully understand what they represent.
Maps are not territory, and there are definite limits to our mental powers and our mathematics, and maybe we should get past our arrogance by waking up to the fact that we are finite beings pondering the infinite, and that a part cannot circumscribe the whole.
Perhaps we have just taken the mind as far as it can go at this time, the journey continues and there is a greater understanding yet to come.
As always, we are at the final boundary between what has been and what is striving to emerge.
And the truth goes marching on.
-->
@RaymondSheen
I tend to edge my bets.
And I want to know the answer to the big question.
Right or wrong are not really the issue.
-->
@Best.Korea
Well, I wouldn't be surprised. It is only 1 out of 3000 chance to accuratelly guess the correct God.
Every God is the correct God. You don't get my message. You don't understand. A God is a personal responsibility, a preference. If you want a God as a cash cow and you perceive it works as such, then it's the right God for you. If you choose your God because it was the one that is geographically, culturally, socially, financially, militarily, intellectually, traditionally fashionably, scientifically or spiritually right for you personally for whatever reason, even if it's not real, if coerced, phony, evil, perverse, or anything else it's right for you.
A god is something, someone or someplace which is of supreme importance to someone. Zeus, Jehovah, Satan, Kim Jong-Un, Eric Clapton, Frodo, knitting, sex, boating, gambling, idols, Jesus, Shiva, Amaterasu, Buddha, Heaven, the universe, the sun, the Big Bang, science, math, fertility, drugs, money, food, or any of the 3000 you mention. The 8 million or countless gods of Shinto, the nameless god in the temple Paul referred to in the book of Acts and all the others I've not mentioned. The difference between a god and God is that titles, like names, are capitalized due to Identification, grammar and syntax, respect and formality, tradition and convention. (Source) So Jehovah is the God of Jehovah's Witnesses and myself, but to unbelievers Jehovah is only a god or, for identification in Christendom, traditionally, conventionally God of the Bible. That doesn't mean other gods can't be God to someone else in some other place or context.
If someone thinks God is their God but in reality, their God is something else, like tradition, money etc. then their God isn't what they think it is. For example, if someone thinks their God is the God of the Bible because traditionally and socially, they act as if it is, they go through the motions, attend church and pray, worship etc. but their actions reveal that science or money or sex or drugs or food etc. is more important to them, then their God is not really the God of the Bible but science, religion, money or whatever. That's why the God of the Bible, Jehovah, said he was a jealous God, have no Gods before (more important) than him. He said they don't know him. Cain is a good example of that. He picked fruit up off the ground to sacrifice to God as if God were, to him, a trash can while Abel chose the most valuable of his flock to sacrifice. That's why Paul said that it wasn't a big deal eating meat that was, as customary, sacrificed to "false gods" because he knew those gods weren't God's to him. In only that sense they weren't real. It didn't matter if they were real to the people sacrificing.
That's why faith is more important than knowledge and why atheism and theism more often than not are only ideologies. That's why atheists can have gods without knowing or acknowledging it and why theists think they are theists of a specific God when they aren't. That's why religion is so divisive, syncretistic and destructive, contentious and pretentious.
If you were going to give away a fortune but you wanted to make sure it went to people who genuinely cared about you and who wouldn't piss it away would you advertise an event where you were going to give a fortune away?
That, @Stephen, is what the emboldened text was about. The love of the greater number will cool off, the Bible foretold it because it was obvious that would happen.
Mark 4:10-12: When he was alone, those who were around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of God’s Kingdom, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables, that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’” (Isaiah 6:9-10)
-->
@RaymondSheen
Every God is the correct God
Thats great.
Thats great.
Good. My work here is done.
-->
@RaymondSheen
Well, I wouldn't be surprised. It is only 1 out of 3000 chance to accuratelly guess the correct God.Every God is the correct God. You don't get my message. You don't understand. A God is a personal responsibility, a preference. If you want a God as a cash cow and you perceive it works as such, then it's the right God for you. If you choose your God because it was the one that is geographically, culturally, socially, financially, militarily, intellectually, traditionally fashionably, scientifically or spiritually right for you personally for whatever reason, even if it's not real, if coerced, phony, evil, perverse, or anything else it's right for you.
"For people differ even when nurtured by the same culture, and as religion must try to speak to the needs of all it has no choice but to spread out in almost endless diversity even within the same tradition." – Huston Smith
A god is something, someone or someplace which is of supreme importance to someone. Zeus, Jehovah, Satan, Kim Jong-Un, Eric Clapton, Frodo, knitting, sex, boating, gambling, idols, Jesus, Shiva, Amaterasu, Buddha, Heaven, the universe, the sun, the Big Bang, science, math, fertility, drugs, money, food, or any of the 3000 you mention. The 8 million or countless gods of Shinto, the nameless god in the temple Paul referred to in the book of Acts and all the others I've not mentioned. The difference between a god and God is that titles, like names, are capitalized due to Identification, grammar and syntax, respect and formality, tradition and convention. (Source) So Jehovah is the God of Jehovah's Witnesses and myself, but to unbelievers Jehovah is only a god or, for identification in Christendom, traditionally, conventionally God of the Bible. That doesn't mean other gods can't be God to someone else in some other place or context.
"What a strange fellowship this is: theGod-seekers of every clime, lifting their voices in the most diverse waysimaginable to the God of all men. How does it all sound to him, like bedlam?Or, in some mysterious way does it all blend into harmony? Does one faith carrythe melody, the lead, or do the parts share in counterpoint and antiphony whennot in solid chorus?" – Huston Smith
If someone thinks God is their God but in reality, their God is something else, like tradition, money etc. then their God isn't what they think it is. For example, if someone thinks their God is the God of the Bible because traditionally and socially, they act as if it is, they go through the motions, attend church and pray, worship etc. but their actions reveal that science or money or sex or drugs or food etc. is more important to them, then their God is not really the God of the Bible but science, religion, money or whatever. That's why the God of the Bible, Jehovah, said he was a jealous God, have no Gods before (more important) than him. He said they don't know him. Cain is a good example of that. He picked fruit up off the ground to sacrifice to God as if God were, to him, a trash can while Abel chose the most valuable of his flock to sacrifice. That's why Paul said that it wasn't a big deal eating meat that was, as customary, sacrificed to "false gods" because he knew those gods weren't God's to him. In only that sense they weren't real. It didn't matter if they were real to the people sacrificing.
"Insteadof crude and boastful contrasts there will be borrowings and exchange, mutualhelp, cross-fertilization that leads sometimes to good strong hybrids but forthe most part simply enriches the species in question and continues itsvigor." – Huston Smith
That's why faith is more important than knowledge and why atheism and theism more often than not are only ideologies. That's why atheists can have gods without knowing or acknowledging it and why theists think they are theists of a specific God when they aren't. That's why religion is so divisive, syncretistic and destructive, contentious and pretentious.
"His roots in his family, his community, hiscivilization will be deep, but in the very depth he will strike the water tableof man's common humanity and thus nourished will reach out in more activecuriosity, more open vision, to discover and understand what others haveseen." – Huston Smith
If you were going to give away a fortune but you wanted to make sure it went to people who genuinely cared about you and who wouldn't piss it away would you advertise an event where you were going to give a fortune away?That, @Stephen, is what the emboldened text was about. The love of the greater number will cool off, the Bible foretold it because it was obvious that would happen.Mark 4:10-12: When he was alone, those who were around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of God’s Kingdom, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables, that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’” (Isaiah 6:9-10)
Isaiah 55:8-10: For my thoughts are not yourthoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavensare higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and mythoughts than your thoughts.
-->
@RaymondSheen
Every God is the correct God. You don't get my message. You don't understand. A God is a personal responsibility, a preference. If you want a God as a cash cow and you perceive it works as such, then it's the right God for you. If you choose your God because it was the one that is geographically, culturally, socially, financially, militarily, intellectually, traditionally fashionably, scientifically or spiritually right for you personally for whatever reason, even if it's not real, if coerced, phony, evil, perverse, or anything else it's right for you.A god is something, someone or someplace which is of supreme importance to someone. Zeus, Jehovah, Satan, Kim Jong-Un, Eric Clapton, Frodo, knitting, sex, boating, gambling, idols, Jesus, Shiva, Amaterasu, Buddha, Heaven, the universe, the sun, the Big Bang, science, math, fertility, drugs, money, food, or any of the 3000 you mention. The 8 million or countless gods of Shinto, the nameless god in the temple Paul referred to in the book of Acts and all the others I've not mentioned. The difference between a god and God is that titles, like names, are capitalized due to Identification, grammar and syntax, respect and formality, tradition and convention. (Source) So Jehovah is the God of Jehovah's Witnesses and myself, but to unbelievers Jehovah is only a god or, for identification in Christendom, traditionally, conventionally God of the Bible. That doesn't mean other gods can't be God to someone else in some other place or context.If someone thinks God is their God but in reality, their God is something else, like tradition, money etc. then their God isn't what they think it is. For example, if someone thinks their God is the God of the Bible because traditionally and socially, they act as if it is, they go through the motions, attend church and pray, worship etc. but their actions reveal that science or money or sex or drugs or food etc. is more important to them, then their God is not really the God of the Bible but science, religion, money or whatever. That's why the God of the Bible, Jehovah, said he was a jealous God, have no Gods before (more important) than him. He said they don't know him. Cain is a good example of that. He picked fruit up off the ground to sacrifice to God as if God were, to him, a trash can while Abel chose the most valuable of his flock to sacrifice. That's why Paul said that it wasn't a big deal eating meat that was, as customary, sacrificed to "false gods" because he knew those gods weren't God's to him. In only that sense they weren't real. It didn't matter if they were real to the people sacrificing.That's why faith is more important than knowledge and why atheism and theism more often than not are only ideologies. That's why atheists can have gods without knowing or acknowledging it and why theists think they are theists of a specific God when they aren't. That's why religion is so divisive, syncretistic and destructive, contentious and pretentious.If you were going to give away a fortune but you wanted to make sure it went to people who genuinely cared about you and who wouldn't piss it away would you advertise an event where you were going to give a fortune away?That, @Stephen, is what the emboldened text was about. The love of the greater number will cool off, the Bible foretold it because it was obvious that would happen.Mark 4:10-12: When he was alone, those who were around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of God’s Kingdom, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables, that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’” (Isaiah 6:9-10)
So the wisdom I asked you about & that you claim to have witnessed on this thread HERE> #133 is nothing more than the falling away of followers of Christianity?.... even though you you tell us that " knew that the Bible itself said it would happen"..... And that is the "wisdom" that you received from the bible.
Well that is a lot of word salad to explain something that you read in the bible. Di people fall to sleep while listening to you rambling, Ray? Like Eutychus did
-->
@Stephen
Di people fall to sleep while listening to you rambling, Ray?
I think its meant to confuse people, like those philosophers do.
"Every rabbit is an animal. Lion is an animal. Lion is rabbit. Lion can beat lion. Rabbit can beat lion. But what can beat both is their own strength."
-->
@RaymondSheen
What if you were wrong? Would you want to know? And if so, why or why not?
I always want to know the truth, this is my first principal in life which is what lead me to studying logical fallacies and epistemology, which is what lead me away from religious beliefs.
-->
@Best.Korea
Stephen wrote: Did people fall to sleep while listening to you rambling, Ray?Best.Korea wrote: I think its meant to confuse people, like those philosophers do.
Well, I asked RaymondSheen to expand on what I believed at the time was a interesting comment concerning his gained "wisdom" of a biblical "foretelling of the way things have turned out" that he made here>#142 and suggested he create and completely new thread dedicated to his new found wisdom based on that comment . He hasn't done that.
Instead, what I did get- on a completely different thread - was a reply to something I asked here HERE> #142 that has nothing to do with what I asked him to expand on in the first place, BK.
I suppose I will get that now well worn-out response that it is my own lack of wisdom and understanding that I haven't understood anything about "the way things have turned out". Which is a shame as I believe the New Testamant gospels actually do forecast the way things will turn out and have turned out and why Ray's initial comment piqued my interest.
-->
@Double_R
I always want to know the truth, this is my first principal in life which is what lead me to studying logical fallacies and epistemology, which is what lead me away from religious beliefs.
Funny... It lead me to religious beliefs.
-->
@RaymondSheen
What if you were wrong? Would you want to know? And if so, why or why not?
Yeah, I would like to know.
Why? Well, I prefer the truth to anything else. It is only humble to recognise the truth and live according to it.
-->
@MAV99
I always want to know the truth, this is my first principal in life which is what lead me to studying logical fallacies and epistemology, which is what lead me away from religious beliefs.Funny... It lead me to religious beliefs.
Then you're doing it wrong
-->
@Double_R
Then you're doing it wrong
No, I am not.
-->
@Double_R
@MAV99
...which is what lead me away from religious beliefs.Funny... It lead me to religious beliefs.Then you're doing it wrongNo, I am not.
If i was wrong,
( NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS BUT ILL ENTERTAIN. )
The last thing I'd want is. To know that I am.
Wrong that is.
I mean.
That sounds horrible.
Imagine
▪°• ▪°• ▪°• ▪° HAVING TO KNOW YOUR WRONG ▪°•▪°•▪°•▪°•▪°•
No thanks.
I've never been , what was it again ?
Warong.
Rong.
EVERRRRR. Before.
Ive been rolling thru life spot on.
100%
Lets say just for fun thatttttt God was real.
He'd want to keep his dam mouth shut.
IF I COULDN'T BE A ATHEIST ANYMORE.
Why i would just MELT.
That means ALLLLLLLLLL my work and learning ive put into the "Atheists bloddy alliance" would amout to nothing.
Ive put 25 to 30 YEARS IN TO PRACTICING THE MANY FACETS OF ATHEISM.
NOT MEANING TO BOAST.,
BUTTTTTTTT
I Know pretty much all there is to know about not believing in a god or gods.
I can not believe with the best of em .
Some say im a ( atheistic scholar. ) or. A ( atheist extremist )
Oh andd
If this hypothesis was reallll.
Id lose my atheist ranking.
Wich has TAKEN yearrrrrrrrsssssss of learning about not beliving.
TO BE RONG WOULD JUST KILL ME INSIDE.
Life i believe would become pointless.
If atheism becomes redundant.
For I'd be wyronga.
Ronga , Wrong.
Wrong.,
Id loss all me fucking morals also.
Pooof , out the door.
So I'd have to learn a system of sorts to get them puppies back.
Ive so so much FAITH in atheism being real.
Soooo yep, that as well.
Id lose me faith.
Id be wandering around aimlessly completely faithless .
I couldn't even be a unbelieve anymore.
OH THE pAIN .
Just because i can't spell that well.
It dosnt mean im not omniscient.
Kunts.
Good game.
Good game.
I've an idea.
Actually NO.
It would be WRONG to ask a.
▪°•▪°•▪°•▪°•▪°• BLACK MAGIC 8 BALL. ▪°• ▪°•▪°•▪°•
If Gods real. ?
Asssssss.
Some of the responses allude to.
Yessss
It is certain.
Without a doubt
And.
Yess certain.
Soooooooo,
Thats no good.
-->
@RaymondSheen
Interesting question, but how would you know? And why would it matter?
After all, we all think we are right, otherwise, we'd think something else.
You think you're right. I think I'm right. Stephen thinks he's right. Best Korea thinks he's right.
All of us, whether we are right partly or wrong partly, are on a journey somewhere. Some like to think that truth is out there and all we need to do is find it. Isn't that the theme of Star Trek?
Of course, how do we know truth is out there? The modern philosopher has told us that there is no "objective" truth. Truth is subjective. We are told not to confuse facts with truth. And also facts with evidence. And if that's true (irony intended) then there is no truth out there.
Your question therefore ASSUMES or PRESUMES a modernistic worldview. You assume that "objective" truth exists. For the record, I believe in objective truth. I believe in facts and evidence etc. I think most of the people on this site do too - for most of us are older rather than younger. That's a presumption as well. And probably a generalisation too.
I think that the notion that "there is ABSOLUTELY no such thing as an ABSOLUTE" is a wonderful philosophical argument and indeed proof that ABSOLUTES must exist. It is because it proves the self-contradiction of the statement. But that's me. No scientist would accept that because it doesn't meet the scientific standard of proof. It's a philosophical argument. Brilliant in its own way. But still just words. Scientists would never be able to prove that an absolute exists, even if it did. Therefore they suggest they are A-Abolustists. or they might say - we can demonstrate within a 99% percent interval that they might exist. Or not exist.
You however ask the question of absolutes, truth is an absolute in the way you posited in your OP. Yet, to the post-modern critic, your question is simply an exercise in futility. And the answers that flowed from your OP demonstrate that.
I, say truth, in the first place is a person. Whatever that means. There is in my mind, both an objective and a subjective element to truth. Hence, it originates in a divine being, so subjective, but its expression then becomes objective truth for everything else. The Garden of Eden and the Tree of knowledge of good and evil was the test God gave to humanity - about truth. Humanity failed that test when it decided - that truth must be determined not by God, but by humanity. Hence, the understanding of meaning of truth has had quite a journey. And it's still going. Hence, today, everyone has their own truth.
For the Christian however, truth has revealed itself to them. Christians say God alone has the truth. And this bothers the rest of the world. Imagine having to subscribe to the teachings in the Bible, it's obviously wrong. Archaic, barbaric, etc etc etc. Just like Adam thought. God you are not right. I am right. Even Satan knows better.
Interestingly, the Christian view is neither modernistic or postmodernist. It is trinitarian. It is covenantal. that might be a bit much for the ordinary JW, but if Jesus is the truth and truth emanates from him, then he is the ultimate reality.
Still, have a good day.
-->
@RaymondSheen
What if you were wrong? Would you want to know? And if so, why or why not?
Well, I'm neither a believer or unbeliever, but I considered myself a truth searcher so I'm opened to any explanation that really makes sense, AND YOURS DOESN'T MAKES SENSE AT ALL.
-->
@Tradesecret
After all, we all think we are right, otherwise, we'd think something else.
According to the Bible, we are all wrong.
Romans 11:33 - Oh, the depth of the riches both ofthe wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments andunfathomable His ways!
1 Corinthians 8:2 - And if any man think that heknoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1 Corinthians 13:12 - For now we see through a glass,darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know evenas also I am known.
Isaiah 55:8-9 - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways", saith the Lord. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
-->
@Sidewalker
After all, we all think we are right, otherwise, we'd think something else.According to the Bible, we are all wrong.Romans 11:33 - Oh, the depth of the riches both ofthe wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments andunfathomable His ways!1 Corinthians 8:2 - And if any man think that heknoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.1 Corinthians 13:12 - For now we see through a glass,darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know evenas also I am known.Isaiah 55:8-9 - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways", saith the Lord. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Yes, the Bible indicates that humanity without the wisdom and knowledge of God is making his own rules and therefore wrong. That's what I said above.
But even believers think they are right, it is what everyone thinks. It is pride. And pride of course comes in many forms. This is one of them.
-->
@RaymondSheen
Reverend Tradesecret wrote: @RaymondSheen:You think you're right. I think I'm right. Stephen thinks he's right. Best Korea thinks he's right.
Wrong again Reverend Stupid. .
I don't know whether I am ever right or wrong with 100% certainty, and I have never claimed to be right about anything concerning God , Jesus and the bible. I have said numerous times that I cannot prove what it is that I believe That is my experience . That is the reason I have spent a lot of my time researching and reading my favourite subject.. and the reason why I came here to share and test my thoughts, ideas and beliefs with reasoning.
What I didn't come here for was to be told that I - "was the slime of Satan and DUMB AS FUCK" by a bible dunce such as you!
The only thing I can say with reasonable confidence is that I will never know. And neither will you.
-->
@Stephen
What I didn't come here for was to be told that I - "was the slime of Satan and DUMB AS FUCK" by a bible dunce such as you!
What you seem most certainly blissfully unaware of is that no else did either. By you.
The only thing I can say with reasonable confidence is that I will never know. And neither will you.
You don't know that either.
-->
@RaymondSheen
What you seem most certainly blissfully unaware of is that no else did either. By you.
Read the actual person of reference , Ray.#24
I haven't called anyone "the slime of Satan or dumb as fuck". Ray. But that bible cretin the Reverend Tradesecret certainly has done.
-->
@Stephen
Read the actual person of reference , Ray.#24I haven't called anyone "the slime of Satan or dumb as fuck". Ray. But that bible cretin the Reverend Tradesecret certainly has done.
Post #24 doesn't say anything remotely like "the slime of Satan or dumb as fuck." Which means you are either lying, slandering, or - well - dumb as fuck. The Hebrew word, without the definite article ha (ha satan) means, perhaps in this case, unironically, "liar; slanderer."
-->
@RaymondSheen
Post #24 doesn't say anything remotely like "the slime of Satan or dumb as fuck."
Read the post very slowely , and you will figure out who it is that I am referencing and aligning and directing the quote to, Ray. He addressed me in a post to you.I was responding to what the clown said about me. get it now, silly boy?
Which means you are either lying, slandering, or - well - dumb as fuck.
No. I am neither. So that can only mean that the Reverend (pathological liar) Tradesecret is doing all the slandering. Unless the bible dunce would like to try and deny his uncalled for insults towards me .
But I know he won't, Ray.
The Hebrew word, without the definite article ha (ha satan) means, perhaps in this case, unironically, "liar; slanderer."
Nope, it simply means "accuser" /"opposer".
Off you go now sunshine. See if there is anyone else that you can bore senseless.
I said: The Hebrew word, without the definite article ha (ha satan) means, perhaps in this case, unironically, "liar; slanderer."
Wrong again. I was thinking of the word devil. The Hebrew word satan means adversary.
-->
@RaymondSheen
The Hebrew word satan means adversary.
Indeed -opposer.