What is a republican?

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 51
Topic's author
#1
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
The GOP does not have a consistent ethos.  It's mainly in 4 parties with different goals:

  1. the fiscal conservatives who want to cut government spending (on education, healthcare, roads, etc).  Is fine with poor children starving to death and having worse schools to save even 5 cents a day on taxes.
  2. the theocrat conservatives (who want tough laws on things stereotypically against the bible).
  3. the RSG (Race, Sexual Orientation, Gender) conservatives (who back whatever within the overton window backs whites, men, straights, and cisgenders [this means if you aren't in any of these groups, then there is no point in you being an RSG conservative because it goes against your interests]).  This includes backing Israel over Palestine because Israel is white and Palestine is brown; if Israel was run by a bunch of black people, then I don't think the RSG conservatives would be as keen on backing them.  If you are in a right wing RSG group and you back a right wing on RSG cause, then fine; but don't be upset when left wing people on RSG don't join your cause.
  4. The conspiracy theorist conservative: Against COVID vaccines, may believe the earth is flat.

The alternative (the left) is merely against people being forced to endure unwanted pain (and most people who vote end up voting for democrats).

Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
#2
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
The GOP does not have a consistent ethos.
"RESOLVED, That the Republican Party has and will continue to enthusiastically support the President’s America-first agenda;"

In other words, the GOP ethos is whatever Trump says it is.

#3
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
The Democrats looks and says: My glass is half full.

The Republican looks and says:  Somebody drank half my water damn it.


#4
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,551
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
A Republican is one who looks at Mount Rushmore and sees it as a monument to historic leaders who are worthy of respect. A Democrat looks at Mount Rushmore and sees a white supremacist monument built upon stolen land.
#5
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,618
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@cristo71
white supremacist monument built upon stolen land.
Well stated.

#6
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,551
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@Best.Korea
Thanks, but I cannot take credit for coming up with that wording.
Topic's author
#7
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Double_R
the GOP ethos is whatever Trump says it is.
Trump is:

  1. Pro COVID booster
  2. Anti confederate flag

The GOP base disagrees with him on this because these are left wing beliefs.

Topic's author
#8
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Sidewalker
What's the alternative?  You keep all of your water, but then we don't have advanced public education anymore.

Cutting taxes and government spending means less funds for public education, a total contradiction of, "Save The Children".  Most of the MAGA base can't afford private education and Africa has low taxes; it's why they are a shithole.
#9
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
You do realize in New York, they raised taxes, raised overall government spending, and cut funding for schools anyway when the illegal migrants had to get paid by the government....
Topic's author
#10
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
NY made a horrible call.  I don't want anyone getting government benefits even if it leads to people dying (due to cutting government spending; I'm selfish and proud of it and am among the only ones with the balls to admit it).  

So do you want to cut spending on undocumented migrants?  Because I think if you are going to do stuff like ban welfare for the undocumented, then you have to ban it for everybody as well.  I would be alright with both if both are done; but the piece of dirt you are born on should not give you any legal privileges as it is out of your control.

But Hocul is a democrat, so her ethos is AUP.  She can raise taxes on NY's globalists to fund better schools and an expanded medicaid for the state's poor.  You can be pro undocumented or pro globalist on this issue, depending on your question to this issue.  I see no problem with taking the pro globalist position (the fiscally right wing position).

Here is the difference between you and me.  We both are fine with starving undocumented children dying to save the globalists money on taxes, but I'm upfront and honest about it because I don't care how unpopular my statements make me.  You believe the same thing; you just are too cowardly to be honest about it.  You also are fine with undocumented children starving and freezing to death to save a very small amount of money on taxes.

And if you are on welfare from being a substitute teacher, then I am alright with you starving to death as well so I can save money on taxes.  Neither you nor me are immune from the risks of a fiscally right wing economy.
#11
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
@ADreamOfLiberty
Because I think if you are going to do stuff like ban welfare for the undocumented, then you have to ban it for everybody as well. 
False.

And if you are on welfare from being a substitute teacher
Okay, back on the ignore list. I told you to stop trying to figure out what my real job was. I don't mind answering the hypotheticals, but I am not about to allow you to attempt to doxx me and get me fired.
Topic's author
#12
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
False.
How is my claim wrong?  The law should not discriminate based on what piece of dirt you were born on.

Okay, back on the ignore list. I told you to stop trying to figure out what my real job was.
Sorry about that.  I just have had a stressful day at home and I forget a bunch of stuff when I'm stressed.  I should not have brought that up.

But if you happen to be poor, then no welfare would then apply to you if you want it banned for undocumented immigrants.
#13
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
@cristo71
Cowboys and Injuns.

One cannot steal land because there's nowhere to hide it.

One can just settle there as all North Americans did.

If the Injuns had known how to carve a mountain, they might have done so.

As it was they weren't quite as clever as the new folk in town.


Hopefully all Republicans are Democrats and all Democrats are Republican.

Well, the majority.

There's always a minority.

The time to get out the guns will be  when the minority tries to dictate to the majority.
#14
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
What's the alternative?  
Use a smaller glass.
Topic's author
#15
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Sidewalker
That means less economic potential.
#16
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
  1. Pro COVID booster
  2. Anti confederate flag

The GOP base disagrees with him on this because these are left wing beliefs.
Trump is the reason the base became so anti vaccine/booster. He's the one who marked COVID as some left wing conspiracy. And if Trump had any position on the Confederate flag I've never heard it and certainly don't but it as anything more than lip service to whomever was accusing him of being a racist.

Regardless, this is all besides the point. Every rule can have exceptions. I never said Trump's command over the base has no limits. Pointing to some obscure example does not change the overall fact.
Topic's author
#17
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Double_R
Trump is the reason the base became so anti vaccine/booster. 
He endorsed the COVID vacciene/booster and his base booed him for it.  Meaning, they don't see Trump as someone that can't be challenged no matter what

And if Trump had any position on the Confederate flag I've never heard it and certainly don't but it as anything more than lip service to whomever was accusing him of being a racist.

Regardless, this is all besides the point. Every rule can have exceptions.
But your political moral code should not have an exception.

Imagine if someone said, "I am a democrat because I want to reduce unwanted pain, but I want to ban abortion even for rape victims and I don't want to force people to get vaccinated because, "My body, My choice".".  This person may be close to a democrat, but they are not.  They might be an independent if they also back things like Medicare for all and if they stand with Palestine.

Independents are the only people that don't need a consistent moral code; everyone in a party does.
#18
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
Meaning, they don't see Trump as someone that can't be challenged no matter what
And I never argued that, so what's your point?

Regardless, this is all besides the point. Every rule can have exceptions.
But your political moral code should not have an exception.
We're not talking about moral codes, we're talking about what it means to be a part of a political party. Calling yourself a democrat or a republican (in a colloquial sense) doesn't necessitate that you agree with everything the party stands for, only that you are aligned on most issues such that you want that side to taker power.

Independents are the only people that don't need a consistent moral code; everyone in a party does.
First off you are confusing political parties with ideologies.

Second, ideologies are themselves generalizations. There is no reason someone cannot call themselves liberal even if they are more conservative on some issues or vice versa. You cannot assess someone's entire "political code" off of one word nor was that ever the point of these labels.

Third, a moral code is a completely different thing and that should always be consistent regardless of what you call yourself. The idea that independents get some kind of pass on that is a flagrant double standard.

So let's get back to the point of this thread. You didn't ask about any individual, you asked about what it means to be a republican and how the GOP does not have a consistent ethos. The GOP is not a person, it is an entity and should be treated as such. Entities change and the GOP is certainly no exception. Quoting something Trump said back in 2015 does not negate the point, this is his party and will take just about any position he demands which is why we now have one of the two major political parties that doesn't believe in democracy or the rule of law.
#19
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
which is why we now have one of the two major political parties that doesn't believe in democracy or the rule of law.
I love how Biden is scheduling a Whitehouse address to comment on the political court case against Trump. Irony.
#20
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
which is why we now have one of the two major political parties that doesn't believe in democracy or the rule of law.
I love how Biden is scheduling a Whitehouse address to comment on the political court case against Trump. Irony.
How is that ironic? 
#21
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@TheUnderdog
D R..." In other words, the GOP ethos is whatever Trump says it is. "....
Aka kiss ass, or brown nosing


S W... " The Democrats looks and says: My glass is half full.
The Republican looks and says:  Somebody drank half my water damn it."....

And some percentage of Trumpet MAGA cultist are bloodthirsty violent, revolutionary/insurrectionist type.  Ive posted data on this in other threads.  They want to break the glass and attack others, unnecessarily. 

..." The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot. It is a republic because the Government derives its power from the people.

The purpose of our Federal Government, as found in the Preamble of the Constitution, is to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility,..."
#22
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ebuc
Water for me, none for thee.

That's a Democrat's "rule of water."
#23
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

An MIT professor is a Democrat and an egg collector in rural Kansas is a Republican.
Topic's author
#24
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@FLRW
Not always.  Most American republicans are not any type of farmer.

About half of blue collar votes go to democrats; about half of white collar votes go to republicans.  It used to be blue collar went democrat and white collar went republican (taxes since white collar people tend to earn more), but Trump really made the correlation weaker.
Topic's author
#25
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@cristo71
A Republican is one who looks at Mount Rushmore and sees it as a monument to historic leaders who are worthy of respect. A Democrat looks at Mount Rushmore and sees a white supremacist monument built upon stolen land.
So if someone believed Mount Rushmore is a monument to historic leaders who are worthy of respect and is also pro choice until the moment of birth, wants to ban guns, give reparations for African Americans, wants to abolish ICE, wants to have drag queen story hour be an official subject in elementary school, but likes Mount Rushmore, then would you call that person a republican?
#26
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,551
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@TheUnderdog
I’d call that person unique.
Topic's author
#27
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@cristo71
Sure, but not republican.

So you might want to go back to the drawing board on the question, "What is a republican?".  Keep in mind if you select any singular issue (or even multiple issues in many instances), I can do something similar.  If you select all GOP beliefs, then you will get several contradictions.

This is not true for the democrats, they are anti unwanted pain.  That, is their moral code whether or not they realize it.
#28
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,551
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@TheUnderdog
Sorry, I don’t smoke pot. I deal in what actually exists as opposed to weed induced hypotheticals such as yours.

#29
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
It's actually what WAS a Republican.  After WW2 the US debt to GDP ratio was 106 percent. A Republican President increased the top tax rate to 92 percent
to pay down the Debt. The Debt to GDP ratio is now 123 percent and Trump cut the top tax rate to 34 percent. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated in 2018 that the 2017 law would cost $1.9 trillion over ten years. Who was better for the Country, General Dwight Eisenhower or Bone Spurs Trump?
#30
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
When it comes to those actually holding public office,  a Republican is controlled opposition for the Democrat party. The Republican party exists to give the appearance that the 2 major parties have different agendas.  The Republican party always abstains just enough votes so the Democrat agenda always passes.