Become a theist

Author: Fallaneze

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#271
keithprosser
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@PGA2.0
Why should they continue to happen in a prescribed pattern that we call a law of nature? There is no reason unless there is a Reasonable Being behind the universe sustaining it. Reason comes from mindful beings. Show me a stone that is reasonable or reasoning. 
i think you have acidentally conflated two meanings of 'Reason'. a) 'Cause' and b) 'Thinking about'.



#272
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@PGA2.0
God could exist apart from His creation.
Balderdash. Give an example.

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@PGA2.0
"Once upon a time, a long, long time ago (around 13.9 billion years ago), something happened for no reason that we speculate about as to what exactly....


Once upon a time about six thousand years ago a being of enormous power, unheard of until this time, spoke existence into existence from nothing according to ignorant primitive superstitious savages.

A nice fairy tale for the gullible!
#274
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@PGA2.0
Funny as.
The godist whose entire argument is predicated on MAGIC accuses atheists of relying on magic. How very droll, hypocritical as hell, but droll.
#275
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@disgusted
Collaborative evidence would be the history and archeology from the period
Egyptian mention of 400yrs of Jewish slavery. NONE
Archaeological evidence that 4million people wandered around a small desert for 40yrs. NONE

That rules that story false then.

No, it does not. That is not the only alternative so you have made another logical fallacy - jumping to conclusions and Non-Sequitur. You are assuming a conclusion that does not necessarily follow. There are other reasons that dispute your claim, such as the evidence is destroyed, or still buried and not yet uncovered/discovered. 


#276
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@disgusted
They don't claim to be the Creator of the universe.
Neither does your god.
The Bible makes that claim that God creates the universe.

Men claim your god is the creator of the universe.
The Bible makes the claim it is not from men but from God, in fact, the very word of God. 

You really need to get your head around the fact that what you believe are the words of men.
Another assertion that you cannot prove.
#277
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@PGA2.0
Collaborative evidence would be the history

Egyptian mention of 400yrs of Jewish slavery. FAIL
and archeology
Archaeological evidence that 4million people wandered around a small desert for 40yrs FAIL

Try again your argument defeats you. You are discussing evidence not your wishful thinking, even though that is the bedrock of your beliefs.

It might be that the moon snuck down one night and scooped up all the evidence so therefore you are right. Do you understand anything outside of your playground rhetoric?
#278
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@disgusted
This space, time universe (generally agreed) had a beginning. What caused it? 
A voice from nowhere and nowhen, from nothing.. Sound reasonable?

Blind indifferent chance happenstance, with no intent, reason, meaning, or logic...sound reasonable?
#279
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@PGA2.0
The bible was written by men ergo men make the claim, no gods involved.
The Bible makes the claim it is not from men but from God
The bible makes the claim, the bible was written by men, no gods involved.

Oh dear, your holy book was written by men, there I proved it.

#280
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@disgusted

So what was the criterion for being separated from god in the first place?
More rhetorical questions or just not reading the statements? 

Without my faith, I am guilty before God of being separated from His presence, yet another took my place, dealt with my sins, suffered the punishment (death) and provided their righteousness in my place. 

This another did this for all humans then?

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@PGA2.0
Answer me first. Or too afraid.
#282
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@PGA2.0
So what was the criterion for being separated from god in the first place?
It's most certainly not rhetorical, answer the question.

#283
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@disgusted
He does not need you to believe. It is in your best interest. God reveals what you need to understand and that is your merit is flawed before God. Have you ever lied, ever stolen, ever committed adultery in your mind or physically cheated on your wife, or lusted after a woman, or coveted something that is not yours, or not given God His due for His grace towards you? If so, then you are guilty of wrong in the sight of God

So says some man. Why believe such a man?

I'm not asking you to believe me. Whether you believe the Bible is up to you. If all sin is punishable by death then you answer for your sin or ignore the biblical warning - up to you whether you believe or not. You know the teaching. It is up to you what you do with it. 

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

#284
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@disgusted
You place enormous faith in the proclamations of men, why is that?
You know the answer. Why do you keep asking?

You place such faith that is it only the proclamation of men. Why is that?

#285
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@PGA2.0
Questions still too hard for you golfer? Stop running away and answer the questions.Why are you so afraid to voice your reason?
#286
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@keithprosser
God explains why we are moral beings, where we came from, why the universe exists, why evil exists in the world, why human beings act unjustly, why we find meaning and purpose in the universe, why we love, why we reason, what truth is, why we are logical beings, etc. Chance addresses none of this. So the nonsense is from chance happenstance and you are welcome to such nonsense since you want to make an appeal to emotion.
I'm happy to call it chance.

it is perfectly possible to expain human behaviour in physicalist terms.   indeed i would say that the physicalist explanation of human behavoiur explains the existence of 'saintly' and 'devilish' individuals better than God's grace and demon posession does!

its seems to me you seriousy underestimate the explanatory power of physicalism and simulataneoulsy exagerate what god explains.  you don't say how god makes us love, reason or be logical  - he just does, presumbly to serve some private purpose.   
Or, another possibility, you seriously underestimate the explanatory power of God's word and who He is. How does chance happenstance do anything, or sustain anything, and indefinitely at that? 

God shows us His love in His forgiveness for our sin, in providing His word that we may come to know Him as see His protection for those who trust Him, His goodness to them in providing them with eternal life in His presence. He also shows His love for His creation in His providence for it and His ability to sustain it. 

God also creates us in His image and likeness. That includes the potential to love, reason and use logic in understanding Him and His creation. 


The explanations offered by physicalism for love and reasoning aren't particularly elevating - they boil down to helping us to survive and reproduce.  But how it happened and why happened don't matter as much as the fact that we can - and do - love and reason.  Given that, whatmatters is what should we apply our powers of logic to?   To the worship of the non-existent gods?
No, they are not elevating. The somehow materialize in a meaningless, unreasoning, illogical universe, and ultimately they all mean nothing. How it happens matters immensely, for you build your worldview on something that if wrong is devastating to your long term well-being and you appear not to care. 


The nihilists are right that nothing is written in the laws of physics to guide us.   Gravity and entropy have no morality, good nor bad.   Atheism is  bit like waking up alone on a desert island - the big question is what do we do?

If nothing is written in the laws of physics why do we keep finding mathematical formulas for physical laws?

Gravity nor entropy are not conscious beings so there is no reason that they could - so what?

The question is how did you get there, and then what do you do about it?
#287
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@keithprosser
Why should they continue to happen in a prescribed pattern that we call a law of nature? There is no reason unless there is a Reasonable Being behind the universe sustaining it. Reason comes from mindful beings. Show me a stone that is reasonable or reasoning. 
i think you have acidentally conflated two meanings of 'Reason'. a) 'Cause' and b) 'Thinking about'.

If the is no reason in the "cause," then how does reason result from the cause?


What is the cause of reason?
What is "reason?"

Where have you ever witnessed reason except coming from conscious beings? How does conscious being come about from non-conscious matter?

#288
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@disgusted
God could exist apart from His creation.
Balderdash. Give an example.

If you create something, did you exist before you created it?
#289
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@PGA2.0
Citation?
#290
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@disgusted
"Once upon a time, a long, long time ago (around 13.9 billion years ago), something happened for no reason that we speculate about as to what exactly....


Once upon a time about six thousand years ago a being of enormous power, unheard of until this time, spoke existence into existence from nothing according to ignorant primitive superstitious savages.
Wrong. Whatever the timeframe God spoke the universe into being from His mind, not nothing. 


A nice fairy tale for the gullible!

Fairytale? Once upon a time, nothing created something - self-creation without reason, intent, or purpose - nice!


#291
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@disgusted
Funny as.
The godist whose entire argument is predicated on MAGIC accuses atheists of relying on magic. How very droll, hypocritical as hell, but droll.

As a Christian, I am not gullible to believe in magic. But you want to paint me that way because of your great disdain for my belief that comes through in post after post.

#292
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@disgusted
Collaborative evidence would be the history 

Egyptian mention of 400yrs of Jewish slavery. FAIL
and archeology
Archaeological evidence that 4million people wandered around a small desert for 40yrs FAIL

Try again your argument defeats you. You are discussing evidence not your wishful thinking, even though that is the bedrock of your beliefs.

It might be that the moon snuck down one night and scooped up all the evidence so therefore you are right. Do you understand anything outside of your playground rhetoric?

It is your belief that because no evidence has been found for some events recorded in the Bible that it is a fiction, yet many other events are proven by archeological evidence. You pick and choose only the points the boost your belief and you try to make this event a falsity yet you never consider the other possibilities, a few of which I pointed out. 

And more insults and ad hominems. 
#293
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@disgusted
The bible was written by men ergo men make the claim, no gods involved.
The Bible makes the claim it is not from men but from God
The bible makes the claim, the bible was written by men, no gods involved.

Oh dear, your holy book was written by men, there I proved it.
I have had enough of your assertions for they are getting tired and repetitive to my mind. Thanks for the chat and I will be expecting the usual ad hominems for cutting out dialog short. 

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@PGA2.0
Fairytale? Once upon a time, nothing created something - self-creation without reason, intent, or purpose - nice!
Your problem is that you are presenting a fairy tale that no one believes whereas you actually believe your fairy tale and that is really funny.
Your god was where when he created existence?Nowhere?
What existed before existence? Nothing?
Where did this voice originate? Nowhere?
From when did it come? No time?

#295
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@PGA2.0
A lump of clay grew a dick and screwed a rib is your belief, does that require magic or do you have another explanation?
Don't runaway, you have so many questions you can't answer, pray for some answers.
#296
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@PGA2.0
Stating the FACT that men wrote the bible is not an assertion but it frightens you beyond belief. Is that because you know it's true and you therefore believe the words of men but claim they are the words of a god?
#297
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@PGA2.0
I'll keep going and prove your bible is lies.  Provide extra biblical evidence that this
1 Kings 10: 14.
The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the territories.  That is about 30 tons or about 23 metric tons.= $250 million today.
is true.
History once again proves the bible lies.
#298
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Why should they continue to happen in a prescribed pattern that we call a law of nature? There is no reason unless there is a Reasonable Being behind the universe sustaining it. Reason comes from mindful beings. Show me a stone that is reasonable or reasoning. 
First you ask for a reason (as in cause),then say there isn't one.   Then you start talking of reason as in 'thinking', not cause 'Reason comes from mindful beings'.

Recast:
What causes things to happen in a prescribed pattern that we call a law of nature? There is no cause unless there is a thinking Being behind the universe sustaining it.  Thinking comes from mindful beings. Show me a stone that can think. 

#299
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Keith has stated discussing a religion you are not in is wrong. Any posts by him at this point are lies and trolling. 
#300
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@Polytheist-Witch
What I stated is that using unfamiliar jargon is a bad idea. 

For example, you, PW, have a completely muddled-up idea what "Torah" actually means.   I like plain, clear language.  It's hard enough to communicate with words in their proper meaning; if incorrect words get sprayed around we won't get anywhere.