Space-time Is What Exactly?

Author: ebuc

Posts

Total: 50
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@ebuc
You think I am trolling you?  You call me illogical bet yet you refuse to demonstrate in any way that what I have said is illogical. Time is still time no matter how you bend or curve it. Space is still space no matter how you bend or curve it.
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@sadolite
@ebuc
You have no logical common sense critical thinking to offer and I think your trolling cause my frustration in two threads now.

Get your mental state together of leave me alone, please
Sado is in pretty good company here, his belief has been shared by Plato, Aristotle, Lucretius, Augustine, Leibniz, Mach, Einstein and Sidewalker through the ages.   I'd have to say almost all of them have "logical common sense critical thinking to offer".  


sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@Sidewalker
The point is simplicity bothers smart people.  I understand that the concept of space time is more complicated than my representation. I even said this. But time as you perceive it and I perceive it and even as ebuc perceives it is all based on the movement of solid matter thru space using points of origin. The moon revolving around the earth, the earth and the moon revolving around the sun the solar system revolving around the galaxy. Like it or not you and every human on this planet will live their entire lives based on this method of measuring time. One can go into time dilatation and on and on, but in the end all of those sub topics begin the same way we all perceive time. No one is special when it comes to time, everyone will live according to the most simplistic definition of time. One can rant about all of the paradoxes of time they want. You still have to be to work at 8:00 A.M. Monday morning, and you will bow to it and follow it religiously, figuratively speaking. 
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
Sado please take a hike from this thread, as ive asked nicely twice, as I did five or more times in the other thread. Go troll somewhere else please.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Sidewalker
Sado is in pretty good company here, his belief has been shared by Plato, Aristotle, Lucretius, Augustine, Leibniz, Mach, Einstein and Sidewalker through the ages.   I'd have to say almost all of them have "logical common sense critical thinking to offer". 

Like you SW, doesnt matter the company if not the whole truth ---ergo you and do not address many of my specifics in regards to time-- and if you both lack some logical common sense critical, thinking that again, addresses my speccifics, as presented.  

Your certainly have not and rarely do.  PLease try again when you can do any of things Ive asked above and others for a few years now.


sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@ebuc
I wasn't talking to you so fuck off, you fucking leave. All my comments are on topic. Its your problem that you don't like or agree with them.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
I wasn't talking to you so fuck off, you fucking leave. All my comments are on topic. Its your problem that you don't like or agree with them.
More trolling by you. Once again please take a hike from this thread

You have three or more posts in this thread replying/responding to me, and absolutely none of them address even one of my statements directly as presented.
...Note: Sidewalker doesnt either, however, he is less of a troll than you, even tho his ego allows some falsehoods and avoids some of the truths Ive clearly presented... 

 Now two threads you trolling me and Ive done my best to be nice to you in these regards over and over.

This is two ways your ego the problem/issue in both threads.



3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ebuc
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
3RU, go to 1:00 and attempt to grasp that, what there saying is Gravity is ' emergent ' --as does Eric Verlinde that Ive posted and referenced links to many times--- and she uses H2O > water as analogous to Gravity.

They are trying to have their resultant conclusions in two differrent ways, ergo, their logic, that, is semi-illogical, lacks common sense critical thinking, as presented with their own comments.

So basically this, logic they state in vid, yet dont seem to grasp/jive with what there saying, i.e. if water exists then that means Gravity exists, irrespective of whether it is emergent or not. Understand 3RU?

My dispute with them and Eric Verlinde is that occupied space Gravity and Dark Energy are primary, tho, Ive made clear in post #16 in this thread, or others around here, that, within my speculative 18 nodal event { in 2d lattice }  Quantum Space-time Torus { 3D } exists the 14 nodal events { 2D lattice pattern } graviton-darkEon, that,

has the following:

Five nodal events of non-quantized, occupied space  Gravity , ....1...2p....5p..7p...11p....1p..... as outer surface events

internal, nucleated body of physical reality {  observed time/quantised } set of Five nodal events, 0....3p....6...9...12.... --associated with sine-wave pattern--- and

Inner surface set non-quantized,  occupied space Dark Energy set of Four nodal events .....2p.....4.....8....10.....

So Gravity and physical reality both have five nodal events, and Dark Energy only has four.  We can derive a logical, common sense critical thinking from this 5 >< 5 ---> 4 ratio.  Gravity and physical reality more primary than Dark Energy { cosmological constant- See Einstein's  biggest blunder, not a blunder }

Here is the 2-D lattice { field } of space and time  and the first 13 nodes define the gravtion-darkEon, along with their 91 lines-of-relationship

....1...............5p...........7p..............11p......13p......................17p.......Gr
-
0.............................6.............................12.....................................18...Phy R
.............3p...........................9......................................15.....................Phy R
-
........2p......4.....................8.....10.........................14.........16...................Dark E

The not shown geodesics --warped Gravitational and Dark Energy--- is as follows:

1 >>> 2p and this is trajectory, within a wholistic pulse of non-isolate-able graviton-darkEon and--- that, has polyhedral { octahedron } aspects of a 3D tube with an internal body { observed time } aka truncated, di-pyramid { octahedron }, i.e. the minimal set to have a 3D tube as,

3 surface nodal events { 0..1..2p } on one end,

5 nodal events internal to the outer surface  tube{ octahedron } ...this is nucleated body of the surface tube...

3 surface nodal events {10....11p....13p } on the other end

So let us again attempt logical, common sense critical thinking to these resultant ratios.  3 outer and 3 inner total 6 compared to the internal { nucleated body } set of 5 nodal events. This resultant of 6:5 ratio suggests to me, that, Gravity and Dark Energy are more primary, however, elsewhere Ive disscussed with there can ever exist a ultra-brief Meta-space time ---ex big bang-- where for the ultra-brief moment { no observed time or motion }, the occupied space physical reality does not exist.

I.e. on the transition of between Gravity > Dark Energy geodesic that, of course has a time, just not a quantize-able observed time, as is the case of quantize-able physical reality.

And I say this again, as I have many in many posts, Gravity and Dark Energy are best catagorised as Meta-physical.  Do you, 3Ru, understand this logical, common sense critical thinking conclusion, as Ive derived from the above 2D lattice pattern?

Non-quantized Gravity and Dark Energy are beyond/Meta phyiscal reality because they exist on the surface of graviton-darkEon and ergo on the surface of the Quantum Space-time Torus.

Sidewalker and most others are so stuck in their pre-conditioned education about space and time, they, cannot free their thought pathways to consider my logical, common sense critical thinking pathways of thought.

Take note of Einsteins quote.... my education has been one of my biggest impediments to my learning '....

My ego tells me, that, based on 2D, lattice pattern presented, my conclusions are logical, common sense critical thinking.  None have ever --if only rarely---  addressed my presentation as such.

Far easier to just make dismmisive comments based on their pre-conditioned education and not address my givens, as presented ergo dismiss ebucs  presentation completely along with ebucs conclusions with out fair judgement, or discourse to address those specifics.

  Certainly we do not live in the not the days of free thought to be considered by many of these around here. Too philosophically logical for them. Logic goes out the window.  Space { as Gravity and Dark Energy }  is occupied  and it gets bent/warped  by occupied space matter { has Gravity and Dark Energy inherent to its existence as Quantum Space-time torus.
Oops more speculative logic, as your given link to others who speculated, as does Eric Verlinde.

3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ebuc
And I say this again, as I have many in many posts, Gravity and Dark Energy are best catagorised as Meta-physical.
interesting proposal
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@sadolite
Time : The distance between to occupied areas of space in the universe. Time and distance are different but are related it takes time to travel a distance.  
can matter exists in the absence of the higgs field ?
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
interesting proposal

Based on rather simple, sequential, numerical pattern in rather simple 2D lattice pattern. 

Yes it takes some time and effort to read and understand rather simple stuff, because, to approach absolute truth takes more words to clarify the definitions leading to our logical common sense critical thinking pathways of thought.

As you well know, Ive been following these pathways of thought for some years,

starting { zero as initialization point } questioning my mother about the location of her Christian Science Biblical God, wherein she would point to the toward the ceiling/sky,

starting { again a zero point initialization ] with my  readings of Bucky Fullers books,

then starting with my naive exploring independently,

then starting with inside-outing of my regular/symmetrical 2D pattern, into irregular/asymmetrical pattern,
..note:.. that references back to Jim Lehmans creation of the di-pryamidic PODs, that, I initialized { zero point } as truncated di-pyramids ergo octahedrons---,

then starting with connecting the dots { nodal events } with geodesics and invagination blips to inside a tube as a sine-wave pattern ergo observed time/quantization } ergo our physical reality.

.......space( time )( time )space..... is the most simple graphic to symbolize what Ive been explaining for a few years now.  Of course simple does not carry all of the needed lingustic definning need to know the specifiics of that symbolization.  People just prefer to attack me because I present a symbolization, and avoid true consideration of what those simple mean when put into many words and at one simple pattern that I believe is fundamental field of Universe,

or it is when interfering with other Quantum Space-time Tori.
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm sorry I am not allowed to comment in ebuc thread anymore. The thread Nazi has spoken.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@sadolite
In simple terms.

Space and time are potentials that allow for event and duration.

Matter is the big question.

Potential exists no matter what.

Spacetime is overthink.


ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@sadolite
I'm sorry I am not allowed to comment in ebuc thread anymore. The thread Nazi has spoken.

My concerns with your trolling aspects was never in regards to you post #33, and sorry you think so.

I addressed the other posts by you I was referring to in another post to you. And that post included the other thread by me, that, you were just trolling me repeatedly in , ergo, you self primed ebuc to take offense to your continual trolling in the 2nd thread, following the first repeated trolling of me in my other thread.

So yes, I was primed to be  less tolerant of you by your similar trolling in the 2nd thread.  Ive offerred to have disscussion with you about other related issues.

Time has two aspects:

1} Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts of units of time, ex 1 minute, hr day etc that, complement the following,
--- conceptual line of demarcation -----

2} existence of occupied space experience --includes instrumental detection--  of flow/motion/spin  of this, that or other occupied space something-ness.

What is space-time was topic of thread, and I gave clearly what I see as the three primary, occupied space examples of these three.

Meta-physical, occupied space Gravity and again, Meta-physical in my defining does invoke a non-occupied space nor a concept

Physical Reality

Meta-physical, occupied space Dark Energy .... and again, Meta-physical in my defining does not invoke a non-occupied space nor a concept.

Im sorry your Meta-space ego is so closed ---you by-far are certainly not the only one--  to anything I my Meta-space ego presents as most refined truth, that you cannot address those specifics as clearly laid out and instead want to lash out at me with use of offensive words. Best wishes in getting your ego intact to have logical, common sense critical thinking disscussions with others in the future.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
Hope this helps.

ebuc....1} fields { fermionic matter and bosonic forces } are an occupied space, complemented by Meta-space pattern { geometric positioning }.

..." The electron is extremely light, with a mass just over 0.0000000000000000000000000009 grams (or about 0.51 MeV/c2). We believe that it gains this (albeit tiny) mass due to the fact that it is influenced by the Higgs field. Without this influence, our Universe would have a completely different structure....

.." Without the Higgs field, quarks would have no mass and consequently the proton would be heavier than the neutron, since all their mass would come from their respective binding energies. Now, without the Higgs field, the W− particle would have a much smaller mass, protons would spontaneously and almost instantly decay into neutrons — we would have a Universe without protons. "
https://cms.cern/news/why-would-i-care-about-higgs-boson

.." Another thing boson fields can do is be substantially non-zero on average. Fermion fields cannot do this. The Higgs field, which is non-zero in our universe and gives mass thereby to the known elementary particles, is a boson field (and its particle is therefore a boson, hence the name Higgs boson that you will hear people use.)
Something else you can do with boson particles is form a Bose-Einstein condensate, a phenomenon predicted by Einstein back in the 1920’s but only produced in a definitive way in the 1990’s, in Nobel-Prize winning experiments described in the link above. What these experiments do in making this condensate is cause large numbers of identical boson atoms to all sit as still as a quantum mechanical object possibly can. "..
https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/largehadroncolliderfaq/some-technical-concepts/fermions-and-bosons/

ebuc.... Fields { a non-defined pattern of existence } >< particles { a more defined pattern of existence }

ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
More specific clarity added

1} all fields > >(*)(*)< < particles are are interfering set of two or more, space-time tori, with the minimal, torus being my presented Quantum Space-time Torus with its 18 nodal events,

2}   Fields { a non-defined Meta-space pattern of  occupied space existence } >><< particles { a more defined Meta-space pattern of occupied space existence }.

.....space(*)(*)space..... fields ()()()( interfere as particles ******

sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,166
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@zedvictor4
"Spacetime is overthink."    Couldn't agree more.


ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
Fields { asymmetrical waves } > < Particles { discreet quantum values }

1} Below is my resultant conclusion for asymmetrical wave of the simplest 2D lattice field, ---with geodesics of torus not shown--- of the minimal, Quantum Space-time Torus.

....1...............5p...........7p..............11p......13p......................17p.......Meta-physical, occupied space Gravity
-
0.............................6.............................12.....................................18...occupied space Phy Reality
.............3p...........................9......................................15.....................occupied space Phy Reality
-
........2p......4.....................8.....10.........................14.........16...................Meta-physical, occupied space Dark Energy


2} I believe, that, a discrete particle cannot exist as a minimum of two Quantum Space-time Tori sharing a common geodesic, common center point, ergo, the two interfere with each other.

My guess for the specific kind of Quantum Space-time Torus is a basic Horn Torus geometry, with my above
numerically linear, spiral induced, di-polar invaginations ---3p....6....9....12...15.... from the outer and inner surface of the torus, that, result in the sine-wave associations we find with Fermionic and Bosonic particles aka physical reality.

Link to Horn Torus at Wolfram https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Torus.html
 
In the above Meta-physical is an occupied space of non-quantized Gravity and non-quantized Dark Energy ergo, beyond/Meta-physical.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,919
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
Hubble Tension

1} Hubble { visible radiation } telescope  final analysis has value of 73.8

..anomaly created Hubble tension between these two measurements, that both checked and rechecked...

2} Planck { infra-red radiation }  telescope final analysis final analysi 67.3

Tension differrence between the two is value 6.5 in the equations for kilometers^-1 and mega-parsecs ^-1

.." "We wouldn't call it a tension or problem, but rather a crisis," David Gross, a Nobel Prize-winning astronomer, said at a 2019 conference at the Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics (KITP) in California."...

“There may be something woven into the fabric of space that we don’t yet understand,” the astronomers said. "

My speculations:

Gravity (  ) , Physical Reality ^v^v,  and,  Dark Energy )(,  are the Cosmic Primary Set of occupied space.

Fields { occupied space } have associated set of asymmetrical set of sine-wave wave patterns --see my quantum space-time, 2D lattice pattern-

Particles { occupied space } have associated set of more symmetrical sine-wave patterns

So below we have two differrent values and the brain uses the average. If only it could be that easy with the differrence in Planck and Hubble values.

Five Primary Kind of brain waves:
..." An increasingly popular way to achieve this is with binaural beats—when two slightly different frequencies are played into each ear, you perceive a frequency equal to the difference between the two. ".....

Bilateral Brain Cortex.." Throughout the brain’s cortex, neurons are arranged in six distinctive layers, which can be readily seen with a microscope. A team of MIT and Vanderbilt University neuroscientists has now found that these layers also show distinct patterns of electrical activity, which are consistent over many brain regions and across several animal species, including humans.
...The researchers found that in the topmost layers, neuron activity is dominated by rapid oscillations known as gamma waves. In the deeper layers, slower oscillations called alpha and beta waves predominate. The universality of these patterns suggests that these oscillations are likely playing an important role across the brain, the researchers say. "...