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@ronjs
Totally wrong. Get an education.
why should we take the story of noah as literal?
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@keithprosser
That is certainly a secular skeptical academic way of looking at it.
But you operate under the silly assumption that there are other gods like God. The Existent One is not like these gods in name only.
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@Mopac
Not quite; I operate under the assumption that all gods are equally mythical.
Here is a better question than the OP...
Of what value is it to argue about whether or not these things happened at all? Some will believe it, some will not, some will say, "I don't know". Is this going to be a stumbling block for you to accept The Truth?
Remember, the bible is used by The Orthodox Church to get people to recognize The Truth as God and guide them into proper relationship with this God.
Why, in ignorance, attempt to undermine this when we live in a world where people actively seek to escape from reality? We live in a culture of virtual reality. A culture of embracing pride in ones delusion.
Not one of you try to hinder a teacher from educating a toddler in the way that a toddler must be educated. Would you crumple up the coloring books and say they are stupid because you don't understand why they are there? In much the same way, just because you don't understand the point of scripture or these other teaching methods emploted by the church doesn't mean that it is helpful to anyone to undermine and sabotage it. As I said, the point of it all is to get people to hold The Truth above all else.
Why get in the way of something so sorely needed?
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@keithprosser
I understand that.
And I am not talking about a god. I'm talking about God. There is a difference. These gods are mythical. There is only one God, and this God is the only true reality.
It truly is stunning to see just how dumb some folks are trying to use that argument.And I am not talking about a god. I'm talking about God. There is a difference. These gods are mythical.
It's like walking into a shopping mall and asking which one is the real Santa Claus.
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@disgusted
Since I gave no details, you are merely contradicting me.
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@ronjs
You have no details so contradicting you is all that is left.
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@EtrnlVw
this thread is for those who think the bible has no errors in it, or that the story of noah is literal. that's what i'm arguing against. i'm fine with taking the story as metaphorical, but the people in the bible, even in the new testament, took the story as literal. it looks like even jesus did, but definiitely his apostles. that means we can't just say it's not literal so not an error. it's an error, period.
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@linate
Yeah I wasn't arguing for either proposition, mainly just wanted to point out that spiritual texts often use stories to convey messages, I would argue that the story of Job is one of those occasions. The works of the OT has a pervasive sort of repetitive message. Which has to do with being willing to obey God and not get crazy when hard times come, be diligent in our actions and beliefs, discard evil in favor of good ect ect...basically having this sort of sacrificial attitude for the Creator which is cool at one level. But I don't argue for the perfection of the Bible that is absurd. So in return my beliefs are not dictated by human errors.
In the case with Noah's arc I'm still open to it. I've heard both sides of the equation and have yet to decide. The important part, is that either way it has nothing to do with the individuals spiritual advancements. It's almost irrelevant either way.
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@linate
Bible ? which one..there are so many versions and add ons it nothing more than a glorified Comic Book Series
in different languages....
It's truly extraordinary how utterly stupid billions of humans are...most of the Bible VOMIT is thrown up on dumbed
down and oppressed peasants...it offers some possible comfort to those trapped in POVERTY...
Promising that as long as they "OBEY" they can drop dead and go to a better place !
It's a great TOOL to subjugate the masses into dumbed down sheeple drone slave asses...where the few expert mind
and life molesters...can control them and focus on exploiting them and Earth resources for industries in other countries...
A perfect game of Thrones TOOL....the Elites act like they are part of the CHURCH-TEMPLE-MOSQUE they are not
it's a business,,,these "GOD" promoting centers are designed to hypnotize the masses into submission..it makes them
easier to manipulate....
Perhaps it is better this way...with billions of impoverished humans and no way to educate them up to speed for the
new frontiers of tech innovation..they are being left behind to waste away...look at SYRIA-CENTRAL and SOUTH
AMERICA, AFRICA and overpopulated ASIA..what better excuse and scapegoat than some "GOD" to marginalize
these people to the point of total decimation....add to their demise non existent LEADERSHIP or GOVERNMENT
a perfect recipe for extermination...the Elites want the land and resources...the people are expendable........
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@EtrnlVw
Literal = as it is Figurative = metaphorical .........
The ALLAH GOD marketing parasite Vampires demand LITERAL following of ALLAH and the KORAN or DIE...simple !
The JESUS GOD marketing parasite Vampires love to monetize their JESUS PRODUCT...the Roman Catholic Church
revelled in HERETIC EXECUTION SPECTACLES...their boy wonder JESUS is a major success for these VAMPIRES
and all the other fake PREACHING for PROFIT Church CULTS...
Jesus...some totally impoverished Jewish boy who proclaimed himself MESSIAH and was executed for doing so by his
own people ! has become a wonder MARKETING GIMMICK...just like the MARVEL Comic Book HEROES !
It's JESUS for profit...JESUS for power...JESUS for control...he is the perfect scapegoat...including for TORTURE and
MURDER...just look at the Roman Catholic Church playbook over the last 1700 years since Emperor Constantine
declared JESUS the only "GOD" to be worshipped ! then 100 years later some Roman Church clown invents the
word "GOD" from a now extinct East Germanic Language !
LITERALLY and FIGURATIVELY the ultimate marketing TOOL for MONEY-POWER-CONTROL = poor JESUS !
JESUS shows up at the entry gates to the VATICAN CITY.....does he raise his arms and PRAISE this Roman Catholic
institution in his name ? OR....
Does he see the ultimate DECEPTION of these Vatican Vampires using and abusing his name for
PROFIT-POWER-CONTROL and inciting FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE
and lower the entire city complex into the EARTH and completely
consumed....then with a layer of new earth and a garden he
creates a simple 1 room building that says on the entryway
"ALL ARE WELCOME ...FEAR NOT"
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@WisdomofAges
The Roman Catholic Church broke away from Orthodoxy, rewrote the ecumenical councils, and have commited many evils in the name of Jesus. Orthodoxy has always rejected the idea that The Pope or any other bishop as king over Christendom. They are schismatics.
We Orthodox do not call for crusades, we do not torture people into submission.
We do get blamed for every evil commited in the name of Christ though, which is unfortunate. We take an awful lot of abuse, from people like you, who if they could get away with it would probably wipe us off the face of the Earth.
We are not Roman Catholics.
The Roman Catholic Church, by the way, has tortured, looted, and killed many Orthodox. The first Orthodox martyr in the lower 48 states was tortured to death by a Catholic Priest for not submitting to The Pope.
There are countless evils I could go over that the Roman Catholics have done just to us Orthodox, but instead I will make this clear...
We are not Roman Catholics.
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@Mopac
Just what does your propaganda have to do with Noah?
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@linate
Aquaman is real...and Noah is an Ancient play....or Noah is real and was saved by Aquaman ?
Either way it makes for good storytelling...what about Perseus and the Golden Fleece....or
Dorothy and the Wizard of OZ ? all great stories...
So some guy goes floating around the planet as it gets flooded...then he lands the boat
and everything is normal again !
What if the female Hippo doesn't like the male Hippo....no more Hippo...all the animals
just wander off into the sunset....with thousands of miles roam...in unknown open spaces
or did all of the jungles just sprout up after the flood receded ?
OK everyone off the boat...your free to go...go make more of yourselves...so the other
animals can eat you and we humans can hunt you into extinction....that's right go ahead
just roam ......gee Noah how do we Asian Monkeys get back to Asia ? walk stupid...
gosh what a dumb question...it's only 5000 miles from where we landed...now scoot....
Hey GOD noah shouted....where do these blue whales go ? and these weird hopping
creatures with the dear like head tiny arms and big jumping legs...never seen one of those
before ! Noah declared...Oh, and the POOP DECK is like buried if you know what i mean
....so what happens to this boat ?
Noah...another Ancient Comic Book story.....but it's TRUE ! SO...like SO WHAT ....
there are electric cars now...it's TRUE ! 100 years ago they would be laughing
prior to that people would not have a clue about what an electric car is...
BUT IT's TRUE ! so...SO WHAT ! gonna write some story that the world needs
to know for the next thousand years ?
Time to wake up...HYPNOTIZED Bible Comic Book people...like so what...believe it ?
Don't believe it ? so what...really SO WHAT....next....got better things to explore....
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@disgusted
Then I assume you know what the evidence of a worldwide flood would be
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@ronjs
Yes
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@disgusted
What is evidence of a world-wide flood?
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@janesix
There isn't any sorry.
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@disgusted
Of course, as usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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@janesix
It's you who can't ask pertinent questions.
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@disgusted
You are full of shit bully.
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@disgusted
What evidence would be expected if a worldwide flood had occurred?
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@ronjs
the opening post is full of things that should have happened if there was a world wide flood. where is the geological evidence of water everywhere? where are the masses of fossils that would have occurred? why isn't there only one lineage of people since the flood happened in recent history and humans supposedly only came from one incest family? the holes are endless.
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@ronjs
And now you need to begin your education, there is much written on the subject I suggest you start now.
12 days later
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@Tradesecret
what are your views of the noah story as posed in this thread? i ask cause you seem like a smart, learned christian, so i'm curious.
585 days later
???
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@Tradesecret
???
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@linate
@n8nrgmi
Hi I have not answered this yet. In fact I did not even remember it being here. Presently, I am working on a pressing matter, but hopefully this evening I can address it more fully.
Thanks for reminding me of it.
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@linate
what are your views of the noah story as posed in this thread? i ask cause you seem like a smart, learned christian,
Firstly, I don't present as particularly smart or learned. Secondly, I don't have answers for all of the questions asked. Mind you, that does not mean that the answers won't present themselves in the future. After all, no scientist would suggest that know everything already. I simply ask for the same curtesy.
so i'm curious. just because the bible says so, and God can do anything?
God can do anything he wants to do. There is nothing that he wants to do that he can't do. However, he won't perform for people just for the sake of it. His ego does not require proving himself to you or to me.
when miracles occur, i believe there is evidence for it.
What do you mean by that comment? If a blind man suddenly can see - the evidence is in the seeing. But mostly skeptics would simply deny the person was blind. Hence they don't care about the evidence.
with the story of noah, it's not just the lack of evidence, but evidence exists that actively discredits the story.
Actually you are simply making assertions not making an argument or producing evidence.
if the story of noah occurred within recent history or thousands of years, how are there so many cultures who look like they evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, when supposedly they were all wiped out recently?
How do we know how cultures have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years? Especially how do we determine how and what they looked like? The Story of Noah is not inconsistent with cultures evolving. It simply says that God wiped out the earth save and except for 8 people. Even the modern day evolutionist suggests that humanity evolved from one set of parents.
how did all the fresh water fish and life survive when all the water combined with the ocean?
Yes, I saw this argument against the flood in a book by Ian Plimer. It is the same book which has a disgraced governor general write the preface. I don't have an answer to the question. Mind you - the argument presupposes much within its premises. It certainly has never been tested.
how did kangaroos and island animals get to the ark?
This question forgets that the world divided and used to be one island. The question is when did the world divide? Evolutionists insist millions of years ago. The bible says it occurred after the flood. Infact Peleg is named after the dividing.
why isn't there any fossils of the mass casualties of life on earth?
Well many would suggest that the many huge oil fields around the world are potentially the result of such mass casualities.
why wasn't there any imbreeding with only one of each animal?
Gee who knows? What about the human situation. Evolutionists believe humans come from one set of parents. Inbreeding ????
how did they fit so many animals on one boat?
If the ark was the size it claims to be - it was pretty big. And if the animals on the ark - were infants or babies - then their size would increase the available size. Obviously a baby elephant is going to take up much less room than an adult elephant and eat much less as well. The same applies across all the species. Some people - have produced examples of how all the animals could fit in the ark. Of course this does not include fish - perhaps there was enough room for the all the fresh water fish - in tanks. Who knows I was not there.
is it all just because the bible says it, and God can do anything, that we should take it as true? the new testament does talk about noah as if it was a literal story, so at least if you believe the bible is the word of God, you can't just say the story was a metaphor.
I think we do need to read the bible in the language it was meant to be understood. I am not talking about Hebrew - but the genre. I take the view that the bible tends to use the language of appearance - and that it DOES NOT use scientific language. It is not a science textbook. God can do anything he wants to do. There is nothing he cannot do that he wants to do. This does not mean he can do absurd things like make a rock so big he cannot lift it. That is not only an absurdity but he has no desire to make one either. I don't think it is a metaphor. But nor do I think that we necessarily read it properly through our modern eyes. The picture is one of God's judgment on the world for wickedness. That is the main message I get from it. And the fact that God chose to save one family through an ark which is a picture for Jesus. God saves his people. God judges wicked. God makes a covenant and keeps his promises.
i believe when miracles occur, there is evidence for them. it's understandable when a christian doesn't think much about these things and takes the story as true. but for those who have studied or should know better, it stands as contemptable the disdain for truth that those literalist christians have.
I think your last sentence is written by someone who has distain for knowledge and education. I am not a literalist Christian. I think parts of the bible are literal and some parts are not. Yet, it is not an act of foolishness nor stupidity to take the word of God over the word of an education system which is tainted by sin. Sin is what makes people stupid - not reading and believing GOD's word.
I think what your real problem is that you have been educated somewhat and come to your own conclusions - and are so arrogant that you think that everyone should believe the same as you. It never occurs to you that many people are educated in humanism and then after years of study they come to the conclusion that the bible is right and humanism is wrong. In fact if you heard that - you would make assumptions - such as they omitted to look at the evidence or were brainwashed or deceived. You see - the evidence is there - but skeptics refuse to believe the miracle.