Chess Mafia DP1

Author: AustinL0926
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#121
ILikePie5
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@JoeBob
Ok I don’t know how important it is but I will try to explain it better.
1. D6, D4
The one at the start is what number moves we are on. It goes up by one once both white and black make a move. It goes white in front, then black always. The D6 is a pawn moving to D6. Every other leave has a letter in front of the D to let us know what piece it is. For example, kD6 would be the knight, which is k, moving to D6. If you look at the chess board, or an image online, you will see that each space has a letter at number, letter first then number. Back to the pawn. After white moves, there is a comma, then black moves. 
Rhat is the basics to it. Though I quit chess a bit ago so some parts may be incorrect.
I know that, but how does that tell us who visited who when you die?

I’m asking Austin if I get to know who visited who when I track someone, or is it only when I die do I get to know, though he is asleep so I won’t get an answer until the morning.
Interesting
#122
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
Any thoughts on my post about JoeBob?
Initially, not a ton. I am not familiar enough with chess to have discerned a theme split, I see some physical objects being claimed, and him being more of a meta-physical concept, so in a way it is an outlier, but only to what's been claimed so far. You could have a point here, however, I am more interested in the way he is reacting to your pressure though, which seems to be to manipulate what you are actually saying. I don't like that he changes your pressure into "Your just mad that I defended Savant" when that was never really your reason for pursuing him in the first place.

As far as your initial reason for suspecting him, I am not really sure if uncertainty in and of itself is a major reason to lynch him in particular, it may be an outlier to the last game where he was literally confirmed town and basically forced into a leadership style role. But I remember him being kind of undecisive and more of a follower in your game and in austins last game as well. It is early pressure though so I expect some convoluted reasoning for starting pressure. I will have more thoughts on things later, just posting this for now, when things settle down at work I will post more.
#123
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@Lunatic
I don't like that he changes your pressure into "Your just mad that I defended Savant" when that was never really your reason for pursuing him in the first place.
He’s strawmanning my argument which I picked up as well. 
#124
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@Lunatic
Take a look at his role and tell me what you think
#125
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@ILikePie5
Initially my thoughts are that the role is very convoluted and confusing. I understood it more the first time he explained it, and then when you asked for clarification on how the will works, his answer left me pretty confused. It also raises a couple red flags for me which I am about to address with him.
#126
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@JoeBob
It seems odd to me that you only are asking Austin questions about how your role works now that you've been pressured about the inticate workings of your role. If I had a role like that I would be like "Cool" as my first reaction, but second would be to ask him all the questions about how the role functions. If you are town aligned you feel like it would be important to know exactly how it functions so you know if you are making the right choices. Why did you just sit on these questions until pie pressured you about it? Also austin was online and posting right after your last post. It is kind of convienent to me that you dis-appear for 8+ hours right when you are being interrogated on role mechanics. 
#127
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I am keeping an open mind on Joebob, if this role is fake, I think he probably had help with it from a team mate, and the complexity of the role would make me suspect someone like whiteflame or barney (I'd mention pie but he's the one putting the pressure on joebob). On the other hand it could be just one of those roles that the mod got theme happy with (like my duplikate role in the last game), which makes it more likely not to be fake. 

I am more focused on the behavior of joebob here. He was ultra defensive with pie, strawmanning his arguments, then finally claims a very convoluted complex role and logs off before answering questions about how it works mechanically. He's buying himself a lot of time if scum, for his scum partner to get back online and help answer these questions for him. Anyways, I am okay with focusing other players as well this phase and coming back to joebob, but I think we actually have enough claims for this day phase. 

Claimslist

Moozer- Castling- Can protect king once(universal protection?), make rook’s untamperable (enabler?)
Savant- Pawn- Miller
Joebob- Algebraic Notation- Tracker that leaves a will?
Pie
whiteflame
Lunatic
Vader
Barney
Earth

If we find behavioral reason to lynch outside of these three we can, but I don't want to press people just to press them either, at risk of giving mafia too much POE. Town won last game, but mostly because of a lucky CC. I think mafia would have rolled town otherwise, because dp1 most of the claims were out and they had a major POE advantage. I don't want mafia having that in this game. I think we focus on these three or we vtnl, again unless someone just does something insanely scummy and unforgiveable outside these claims. 

I am not dismissing moozer or savant based on their claims either. I am curious to know why Pawn is a miller as well. Moozer can have a buddy helping him just as much as joebob can. Also I get the vibes the savant albeit being new to mafia isa very intelligent person, and capable of fake claiming even without an experienced mafia partner. Just some thoughts.
#128
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@Savant
In your own words, can you provide justification for why pawn is a miller? Rephrase what the mod said, basically, dont just C/P or you will get mod killed
#129
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@Barney
@Vader
Don't get angry with me for tagging you barney, this post is just a reminder that I would like to hear some of your thoughts and feedback whenever you are free to post in the game. Vader, I'd like your thoughts as well.
#130
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@whiteflame
Alright, having just caught up on the DP… yeah, I don’t get the basis for this push on JoeBob. I think the basis for sussing him is weak at best, and this statement by Pie is just flat out false:
NGL I actually town read this from pie. I don't get the vibe he is tunneling joebob or even thinks joebob is scum yet, but he feels like he is scum hunting and sometimes a convoluted push is the best way to get reactions, and the way joebob is reacting is what is more interesting about the exchange then the initial reason for pie pushing him. I don't think shutting down an open line of investigation for being based on contrived reasoning is really all that beneficial here.

I can confirm that I’ve played with JoeBob as scum. I’ve seen how he behaves in the role. I think he’d be more careful about his posts if he was scum, since he regularly requested help with those posts in that game. None of what I’ve seen so far matches his scum behavior in that game.
What's strange is that he does seem careful here to me, and it goes against his normal townie IDGAF attitude that I've seen in the few games i've played with him in and hosted of him. When he finally caves and gives pie the claim you notice the shift. I'll grant you posted this prior to that happening. 


What do you think about the claim? Do you find it odd that he didn't ask austin questions about how his role worked right off the rip?
#131
JoeBob
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@ILikePie5
I know that, but how does that tell us who visited who when you die?
???
#132
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@Lunatic
When he finally caves and gives pie the claim you notice the shift.
I gave him the claim without hesitation, what do you mean “I finally cave?”
#133
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@JoeBob
You were strawmanning his argument before that about him only pushing you because you defended savant, which wasn’t true.
#134
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@JoeBob
So... I really don't get this role. ChatGPT called you a "Flipped Tracker" and I'm not sure whether that's what you put in or if it just interpreted the role that way. You're a Tracker (you didn't say how many shots) with a caveat, so I'd like to understand the caveat. From what I understand, when you die, information regarding who you Tracked and what they did becomes available to... someone? Everyone? I'm not sure how that information is helpful (if you receive that information, you could tell us those results, which would be confirmed upon your death if you flipped town), unless, as you speculate, it's possible that you don't receive actual results for your Tracking each NP...

Except that makes even less sense because, then, you're functionally useless unless someone kills you. You're effectively Vanilla until you die. If this is real, then scum has no incentive to kill you because you only confirm yourself upon death and the information you garnered is only useful then as well, not to mention that it would require town to piece through previous NPs to try to understand the results. 

Also, I've noticed that you have posted now twice this morning and, given that Austin has posted since then, he has likely responded to any questions you've posed. That information should have been made clear to everyone as soon as you hopped online. What happened? What did he say?
#135
whiteflame
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@Lunatic
NGL I actually town read this from pie. I don't get the vibe he is tunneling joebob or even thinks joebob is scum yet, but he feels like he is scum hunting and sometimes a convoluted push is the best way to get reactions, and the way joebob is reacting is what is more interesting about the exchange then the initial reason for pie pushing him. I don't think shutting down an open line of investigation for being based on contrived reasoning is really all that beneficial here.
I didn't so much mind the fact that he was pushing on JoeBob as that he had apparently missed the game where JoeBob was scum. I had a different read on JoeBob based on my experience playing with him, but I do think there's value in having everyone examine his past behavior rather than just assuming that this is scummy based on games where he has played as town.
What's strange is that he does seem careful here to me, and it goes against his normal townie IDGAF attitude that I've seen in the few games i've played with him in and hosted of him. When he finally caves and gives pie the claim you notice the shift. I'll grant you posted this prior to that happening. 
Everything surrounding the claim from him is making me question my read on him.
What do you think about the claim? Do you find it odd that he didn't ask austin questions about how his role worked right off the rip?
Yeah, the claim doesn't make much sense to me. JoeBob has a history of having to clarify his claims, which he has done as both scum and town, but the distinct lack of clarity on this one is puzzling. If I had gotten this character and role from Austin, I'd have asked quite a few questions out the gate.




#136
whiteflame
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Dashboard
PLAYER               ROLE                CHAR
1. Savant          Miller+???           Pawn
2. Pie                      ???                      ???
3. whiteflame     ???                      ???
4. Moozer         BG+Protector   Castling
5. Joebob   "Flipped Tracker" Algebraic Notation
6. Lunatic             ???                     ???
7. Vader                 ???                     ???
8. Barney              ???                     ???
9. Earth                  ???                     ???

Everyone so far seems to be a mash-up of two roles, so there is some question as to whether this "Flipped Tracker" is just an odd mash-up of Tracker/Revealer made by Austin or whether it's a poorly fashioned fake claim.

#137
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@Lunatic
What I said in my earlier post. The pawn has more to do with my other role, Miller is just an add-on and I didn't see a direct justification for it in the PM. Only thing I can think of is that the pawn is a weak piece and being a Miller makes the role weaker.
#138
ILikePie5
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@JoeBob
???
There’s a lot you haven’t clarified. You said you don’t know if you receive the tracker results in the night. You also haven’t yet said how the notation works. For example let’s say N1, you track me to Player A. When you die, what exactly would be revealed to everyone?
#139
Vader
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Hello! Sorry for the inactivity. Gonna catch up and give my thoughts 
#140
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@whiteflame
Hectic. Just moved out of school and back home for the summer and getting ready to move back into my summer house for 10 weeks so a bit hectic 
#141
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Pies normal meta is pushing new players and asking experience so there is nothing off about that play. Earth one is what he tends to do as well. Usually picks a townie and forces them to be active 
#142
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@Vader
I feel you. Hope the semester went well! 

Unvote
#143
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@Savant
That’s good that you said it now. If you kept it hidden til DP2 it would likely draw a lot of suspicion on you for waiting on that claim
#144
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@whiteflame
Yep it went overall so that's all we can ask for end of the day
#145
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@Moozer325
Shouldn't have revealed that information for future reference
#146
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I would like to say I am not as pro policy lynching Miller as I used to be.  I also don't think he should be blindly town read for claiming that role. There needs to be some form of behavioral analysis or some other actions that can verify him as town and if that's the case, we have no reason to lynch him
#147
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I'm not really sure on Pie's initial reads on JoeBob and it being "crafted." On one hand, I think this mildly deviates from his play last game as scum but I also don't think I've seen him use the word phrase logic.

Needless to say I am a bit skeptical. No offense but I feel like you mean the same thing when you are talking about past vs present tense. It's forum mafia and grammar is not on my first priority in this game. I don't think JoeBob has the capacity to carefully craft sentences to distinguish past versus present tense

#148
ILikePie5
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@Vader
That’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion but what are your thoughts on his role?
#149
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Algebraic Notation is a bit off for this theme I will say, but it doesn't necessarily deviate from what the theme split could be. I think I will wait to hear more claims to see how much of a deviation it is.

And yeah, I'm not necessarily buying Pie's logic either with the minuet details of grammar and all that to assume what Savant's affiliation is. I feel like past vs present tense is pretty easy to mess for a lot of people and I don't think it's enough of a beckoning point to try and look for a lynch. He also uses it as consistent logic throughout the entire page 3 so it just seems likes he's grasping for straws. 
#150
JoeBob
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@ILikePie5
Lets say tonight I tracked you. When I die im guessing it would look something like this:
NP1: ILikePie5 tracked/visited so and so.
and then NP2 would do the same and so forth.