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@3RU7AL
we can only imagine "possible effects"
Repitition of your point without proving it, especially if you just repeat it to act against an argument is a fallacy.
I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
Posts
Total:
292
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@3RU7AL
computer programs are definitely "goal seeking"and computer programs certainly "make a choice"
Do they make a choice the same way we do?
Nope!
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@3RU7AL
what is essentially a "roll-of-the-dice"does not qualifyas an "intentional act of will"
My conscious choice is not a "roll-of-the-dice"
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@3RU7AL
what in god's name is the difference between "freely choose"and"choose"
I am talking about the different senses of free. Not the word choose.
And if there is no difference between "choose" and "choose freely" then why are you saying we dont choose freely when we choose?!?!?!?!?!??!
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@3RU7AL
"internal causes" are fully comprised of biology + experience ("external causes")
Your biology and experiances are not external causes.
Nor are they comprised of them in ipso.
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@MAV99
Intellect and will is not.
now we're getting somewhere
is your intellect not constrained by the limitations of your brain ?
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@MAV99
we can only imagine "possible effects"Repitition of your point without proving it, especially if you just repeat it to act against an argument is a fallacy.
you have failed to make a compelling case for any alternative
"possible effects" cannot be observed empirically - they are not concrete
"possible effects" are by definition NOT "logically-necessary"
THEREFORE
"possible effects" can only "exist" in your imagination
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@MAV99
computer programs are definitely "goal seeking"and computer programs certainly "make a choice"Do they make a choice the same way we do?Nope!
what
is
the
difference ?
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@MAV99
My conscious choice is not a "roll-of-the-dice"
that's what i just said
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@MAV99
And if there is no difference between "choose" and "choose freely" then why are you saying we dont choose freely when we choose?!?!?!?!?!??!
you tell me what the difference is
because you're the one insisting that there is a difference
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@MAV99
Your biology and experiances are not external causes.Nor are they comprised of them in ipso.
is your biology an "internal cause" ?
did you somehow
create yourself ?
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@3RU7AL
is your intellect not constrained by the limitations of your brain ?
In ipso, it is not. This means by itself it is not restrained by the brain.
It is restrained by the brain as far as what we call its "ad objectivo" meaning its object, what the brain produces, it uses.
As regards what it does it adds to the brain. What we call understanding.
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@3RU7AL
you have failed to make a compelling case for any alternative"possible effects" cannot be observed empirically - they are not concrete"possible effects" are by definition NOT "logically-necessary"THEREFORE"possible effects" can only "exist" in your imagination
Why can they not be understood, as in something you reasoned to?
In fact, If do not understand that they are options, you do not understand that they are possible, then you do not know there are options. That is absurd.
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@3RU7AL
whatisthedifference ?
The computers random function has not consciousness. It acts randomly.
Not like us. We have consciousness of our descision.
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@3RU7AL
you tell me what the difference isbecause you're the one insisting that there is a difference
NO I AM NOT! GO AND BLOODY READ WHAT I SAID!
I SAID THERE ARE DIFFERENT SENSES TO THE WORD "FREE", NOT DIFFERENT MEANINGS TO THE WORD "CHOICE!"
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@3RU7AL
is your biology an "internal cause" ?did you somehowcreate yourself ?
Yes, your biology is an internal cause.
Internal cause has to talk about those causes that deal with the thing itself in its existance.
It has nothing to do with creating itself, but rather maintaining itself.
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@MAV99
is your intellect not constrained by the limitations of your brain ?In ipso, it is not. This means by itself it is not restrained by the brain.It is restrained by the brain as far as what we call its "ad objectivo" meaning its object, what the brain produces, it uses.As regards what it does it adds to the brain. What we call understanding.
ok, are you suggesting that MIND = SPIRIT ?
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@MAV99
Why can they not be understood, as in something you reasoned to?In fact, If do not understand that they are options, you do not understand that they are possible, then you do not know there are options. That is absurd.
saying that i understand something exists in my imagination
is not the same as saying i understand the future
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@MAV99
The computers random function has not consciousness. It acts randomly.Not like us. We have consciousness of our descision.
computers do not "act randomly"
they may be "unpredictable" at times
but that's not the same as "random"
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@MAV99
I SAID THERE ARE DIFFERENT SENSES TO THE WORD "FREE", NOT DIFFERENT MEANINGS TO THE WORD "CHOICE!"
you are using the term "free" in conjunction with the word "choice"
why are you doing this ?
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@MAV99
It has nothing to do with creating itself, but rather maintaining itself.
the body can only "maintain" by interacting with EXTERNAL phenomena
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@3RU7AL
@MAV99
Four primary kinds of Spirit { 1../...2....3....4 }
1} Meta-space ergo absolute truths ergo cosmic physical laws, and cosmic principles ex principle of life/biology
1} Meta-space ergo absolute truths ergo cosmic physical laws, and cosmic principles ex principle of life/biology
Meta-space mind/intellect can present --via occupied space soul/biologic brain/nervous system--- a concept, that, cannot logically be presented mathematically.
Ex no mind/intellect can ever present a mathematical set of more than five and only five regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra. There are mathematical --includes geometry--- limits to what can exist as an occupied space of our eternally existent, finite occupied space Universe. This is an absolute truth. No amount of mind/intellect can violate this absolute truth or the finite set of inviolate absolute truths.
2} Soul and biology are synonyms ---soul/biology-- in my book of wholisitc comprehension of finite occupied space and macro infinite, truly non-occupied space existence........................space@space....... wherein @ is 2dnay symbolism for finite, occupied space Universe.
Ex no mind/intellect can ever present a mathematical set of more than five and only five regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra. There are mathematical --includes geometry--- limits to what can exist as an occupied space of our eternally existent, finite occupied space Universe. This is an absolute truth. No amount of mind/intellect can violate this absolute truth or the finite set of inviolate absolute truths.
2} Soul and biology are synonyms ---soul/biology-- in my book of wholisitc comprehension of finite occupied space and macro infinite, truly non-occupied space existence........................space@space....... wherein @ is 2dnay symbolism for finite, occupied space Universe.
3} There exist no true chaotic randomness of our finite, occupied space Universe i.e. all is cause > effect > resultant. There exist ultra-micro high number of ultra-micro events and their ultra-high number of lines-of-relationship that we can never access too. Ex meta-physical Spirit-3 Gravity andSpirit-4 Dark Energy because the phenomena are not quantize-able by any biologic/soul of finite, occupied space Universe.
4} Physical reality is where soul/biology reside --aka observed { quantized } time--- and is associated with relative truths and as complemented by Meta-space sine-wave ^v^v patterns of existence and the inviolate absolute truths
.....there exist inside- finite Universe, volumetric spaces,
......outside Universe, macro-infinte ergo non-volumetric spaces,
.......and there exist only three cosmic directions, in----around...out,
.....there exist inside- finite Universe, volumetric spaces,
......outside Universe, macro-infinte ergo non-volumetric spaces,
.......and there exist only three cosmic directions, in----around...out,
.......with a volumetric sphere O we have no hole of occupied space,
...with a volumetric torus ( ) ( ) we have a minimum, a single hole of only a seemingly non-occupied space.
None have ever offered any logical common sense critical thinking that invalidates most of my above givens, as presented elsewhere as my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline, and I believe none ever will. At best others will be assimilated and at worst........resistance is futile.....as presented in science fiction of Star Treks Borg biologic/soul creatures.
None have ever offered any logical common sense critical thinking that invalidates most of my above givens, as presented elsewhere as my Cosmic Trinary Set/Outline, and I believe none ever will. At best others will be assimilated and at worst........resistance is futile.....as presented in science fiction of Star Treks Borg biologic/soul creatures.
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@3RU7AL
ok, are you suggesting that MIND = SPIRIT ?
I am suggesting the intellect and will are a spirit.
and when I say spirit, I mean a non-physical entity that acts as the principle of the life particuler to humans.
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@3RU7AL
saying that i understand something exists in my imaginationis not the same as saying i understand the future
I am not saying we understand the future.
I am saying we understand possibilities about the future.
That is something different.
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@3RU7AL
you are using the term "free" in conjunction with the word "choice"why are you doing this ?
First off, because you asked me what I meant by "free" in post number 221
Secondly, because there are different senses to the word "free" that can change the meaning of what I am saying.
I am being very specific in my use of "free"
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@3RU7AL
the body can only "maintain" by interacting with EXTERNAL phenomena
There must be something that is maintaining its being in order to interact with outside causes to maintain its acting upon external things.
You have to be before you can be doing something.
Internal causes maintain being, in order to maintain the things actions on external causes.
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@MAV99
I am suggesting the intellect and will are a spirit.and when I say spirit, I mean a non-physical entity that acts as the principle of the life particuler to humans.
and you support this hypothesis
with an "appeal to ignorance"
basically
"we don't know exactly what it is and exactly how it functions, therefore SPIRIT"
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@MAV99
I am being very specific in my use of "free"
and it's not free from anything
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@MAV99
Internal causes maintain being, in order to maintain the things actions on external causes.
your existence is caused by "external forces"
your biology is caused by "external forces"
your experience is of "external forces"
you are wholly comprised of "external forces"
sure
at some point you can rename those "external forces" to "internal forces"
but every component is part of a continuous chain of cause-and-effect
that started before you were born and will continue after you die
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@3RU7AL
and you support this hypothesiswith an "appeal to ignorance"basically"we don't know exactly what it is and exactly how it functions, therefore SPIRIT"
Care to site where this "appeal to ignorance" is?
Because I certainly never said "We dont know exactly what it is and exactly how it works, therefore spirit"
Do you like throwing words in peoples mouths?