One thing I respect Putin and Russia for.

Author: RationalMadman
Morality
RM
Justice
Terrorism
torture

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#1
RationalMadman
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I saw a video of those that did the massacre swollen in agony beaten to a pulp, I hope they're rinsed dry of any capacity to not experience hell before going.

I don't understand why this isn't standard practise to do to massacre doers any and everywhere and frankly to many criminals.

It's not as extreme as cut the fingers off a thief but I can completely get behind what happened to them.

If I ran a country (legal disclaimer: I don't own an country this is all a fantasy) and you massacred my people, I'd make you wish you weren't born. Not others for me but me personally with them. I don't understand what's wrong about this approach if you know for sure it's them and they did something this bad. They shouldn't be allowed to not hate every second of their existence left other than to be the lull between their hell.


I have waited some time to express this opinion in a way that doesn't make me get on a blacklist but if so, so be it. The opportunity arrived. Intelligence agencies will either agree with me on this or hypocritically do this to me, so it's a win-win.
#2
Best.Korea
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I do prefer mental torture and starvation torture of terrorists, but one can understand the desire to torture them greatly and cut them slowly, as what they did was to attack a country and the best way for a country to defend itself is to apply greatest punishment to those who attack it.

Of course, there are other strategies, such as respecting your opponent, which can also result in benefits.
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#3
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@Best.Korea
The opponent is ISIS and people up top there. That's a separate issue.

This is about both deterring and easing temporary agony of those close to them or in the community. They must be sure those that did this didn't get to ever experience pleasure again.
#4
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After they go to prison, thats when the real torture will start, as they will be raped every day with sharp objects, and they were extremely idiotic to follow muslim policy of no suicide, as I seriously doubt that they are even close to capable of enduring what Russians will do to them.
#5
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@RationalMadman
The fact that the damage is highly visible means it was done for a specific purpose, not to rehabilitate these men but to serve as a warning.
#6
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I have waited some time to express this opinion in a way that doesn't make me get on a blacklist but if so, so be it. The opportunity arrived. Intelligence agencies will either agree with me on this or hypocritically do this to me, so it's a win-win.
Why are you this paranoid? Even if you assume that one day you will be a world leader, the 14 eyes are the only group to worry about and they don't care. They practice realpolitik and the only analysis they will look at is whether you are beneficial to the 14 eyes or not. If you are not a threat or if you advance their interests you can do all types of sick shit and be fine.

I saw a video of those that did the massacre swollen in agony beaten to a pulp, I hope they're rinsed dry of any capacity to not experience hell before going.

I don't understand why this isn't standard practise to do to massacre doers any and everywhere and frankly to many criminals.


I was happy to see that as well. Yes they deserve a fair trial but we shouldn't get in the way of their captors letting off some steam on them.
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#7
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@WyIted
Strange sarcasm at the end. It's not supposed to be about that but that narrative is what liberals always use.
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#8
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@WyIted
How about getting AI to do it? Then the pleasure or letting off steam aspect is gone.
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#9
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@Greyparrot
Good. They don't deserve the chance to ever function in society again. This is the primary thing I don't see eye to eye with most left wing people on. To me there is such a thing as unforgivable.
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@RationalMadman
If we approach it from a utilitarian view than it reduces overall pleasure to allow AI to do it. We are still all happy at their treatment but the cops not being able to let off steam means that from a utilitarian perspective it is harmful to have AI do the beating
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#11
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@WyIted
No many people disagree with it. Liberals for emotional reasons, conservatives for moral and I guess moral is also emotional and it's intertwined.
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#12
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@WyIted
Why do you think this isn't done in the West now matter the level of massacre? Yes at least half commit suicide before it can be done but those that don't are treated with too much mercy, dignity is a separate issue but the raw mercy is astonishing to me.

Someone can do the worst of the worst stuff and be treated humanely because the soft society made that the law.
#13
Best.Korea
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RM,

People in US prisons do get treated badly. Its just that "official torture" is banned, but there is plenty of torture behind the scenes, and its not like a terrorist will be spared in US prisons.
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#14
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@Best.Korea
Often those that did the worst are dishing it out to lesser ones.

This isn't productive and since it isn't the worst of the worst it's done to, proportionally, you're just making worse sociopaths out of lesser ones or some weren't sociopaths going in but become it, always, when leaving.

I haven't seen one ex con online or otherwise who doesn't fall under traits of a sociopath. It turns you into that to survive there.
#15
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@RationalMadman
We are supposed to treat people as innocent prior to being found or pleading guilty would be the reason. I believe other western countries have similar beliefs but when the system was set up, these were better men than me and you. They set up the entire system to basically balance the passions of men against the tyranny of the elite. It's tough because if you put the power in the hands of only the elite the masses will not have their fleeting passions ruin society, but the elites will not treat the population as equals. If you put the power in the hands of the people than only fleeting passions matter and the majority will exploit the minority, whether the minority is the wealthy elite or black americans .

So we intuitively get this blood lust to go after these ruthless scum and hurt them, but the founding fathers wanted us to place justice and freedom above these revenge boners. There is also this belief that certainly our own rights are safe if we can manage to protect the rights of the worst of us
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#16
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@WyIted
You mean the slave owning elitist scumbag founding fathers that stole land that wasn't theirs and treated criminals and law abiding people like shit alike, especially if their race was different? Or who?
#17
Best.Korea
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RM,

I was in prison, and yes, it pretty much destroys many human values in you when you see what people do to each other there.

And you have to very quickly learn the game being played there, and the game is such that everyone is a sadist trying to screw up everyone else to gain some pleasure from their suffering, because thats the only way you can get pleasure in prison otherwise you will die from boredom.

And you are all the time in a hostile environment just trying to avoid being a target, but also being forced to take sides when fights break out and they break out often and unexpected.

Some criminals get treated much better than others depending on their relations with guards and other prisoners.

Its usually pedophiles who get treated the worst tho, much worse than any other crime, unless they somehow find protection.
#18
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@WyIted
There is also this belief that certainly our own rights are safe if we can manage to protect the rights of the worst of us
If you teach people to try to be safe, then all you get is virgin men as opposed to chads.
#19
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Safety is an illusion, as you are never really safe, but you just have hope that you are.
#20
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@RationalMadman
That's certainly a narrative and it's too much to break down here and now.

You mean the slave owning elitist scumbag founding fathers that stole land that wasn't theirs and treated criminals and law abiding people like shit alike, especially if their race was different? Or who?
This sentence has a lot of claims and also may be providing a broader definition of founding fathers than I am but lets take the claims.

1. Slave owning- A lot to dive into, and a moral grey area in some circumstances. For example slaves are mostly going to be free labor on large farms and so it doesn't apply to most people and the founders were divided on this. If you saw a slave being abused is it more unethical to purchase them and befriend them and they work for room and board at your house?  Is it better to release them to flee north and be abused by employers and society at large?  What if the founding fathers are as bad as you say, it takes some discipline to still create a system where you declare all men are created equal and give the future the power to rectify your mistakes.

2. elitest- in a sense maybe. They wanted only property owners to have voting rights, Not something I disagree with seeing as how America has devolved since then but they also opposed the British monarchy who were even more elitest.

3. stole land- I don't know if we go far enough back everyone did and it was mostly the native americans being violent towards new comers. Plus if they don't believe in land ownership how is it stealing? Also other than the sparse tribes you are talking about a very sparsely populated area.

4. treated criminals and law abiding citizens like shit- citation needed that thomas Jefferson or john adams or george washington did this

5. especially if their race was different- i mean I don't think most of these guys were even slave owners but even if they were it probably was due more to getting free labor than any particular hatred of african americans or the chinese or the irish. Also I doubt they had too much interaction with these people. Evidence suggest though that free black men were treated with more equality than what is advertised. SOme became mayors and had other respected positions of influence. I wouldn't want to deigrate any of their achievements

You see though how you basically took one sentence and put me in a position where it would take me a 10k word essay to defend properly. I can simultaneously realize a few things. This lense to view the past with is heavily flawed. Also these men were far from perfect and I would argue in Washington's case he was pretty close to being evil and yet the system they created. They really overcame their own weaknesses to create the best system ever devised. A system where they could set aside their passions and be purely logical at creating it. I would reccomend reading both the federalist and anti federalist papers to just get a small glimpse at how much logic and give and take was involved in creating this system