ah, so your conspiracy theory expands! There are many cabals all trying to control the world. Got it.
Would you like to do a debate on whether mafia groups and secret societies exist or not, because that is my claim and you seem incredulous that such groups could exist.
Actually, you did -- "Obviously not all jews are in the know but there is a top down force among the leaders to accomplish a particular goal"
That in no way makes it a secret coordinated cabal. I recently had to explain this concept about the deep state as well. There is a concept that I call egregores and I don't think it necessarily needs to be a spiritual concept or occult but just an occult term to define a very real thing that is occurring . When there are groups a type of spiritual force is created. You can escape the egregore's graps by not identifying to strongly with a group or a belief or an identity. However the energy does support it's own continued existence and will to power. It's part of the reason I try to train myself not to be swept up in whatever things people get emotional about. prolife/prochoice progun/antigun antifa/maga. It's getting wrapped up in an egregore that has the potential to destroy those in it's grasp. Not that it cares if I am destroyed or not, but it's goals would not align with mine.
So what does this have to do with a top down force? It means that in this chaotic world you have millions of people pulling in different directions and that people believe they are advancing their own interests or the interests of mankind but in reality it's usually just spiritual slavery to an egregore who can see thousands of years into the future and who is giving your actions slight nudges left and right to advance it's own cause. It wouldn't be the bad motives that cause Jews or juadaism to be negative forces on society. It wouldn't require the knowledge of or even the cooperation of those in it's force in society.
Who would the leaders be in the context I mentioned? First of all, I would like to apologize for the lack of clarity in how this is worded. I may have been using inflammatory language in that sentence hoping for a more forceful rebuttal. I will actually provide you a rebuttal below so you can see the type of thing I was looking for because it is the real topic I wanted to discuss. I was told by my psychologist I should start with the real topic I want to discuss but it usually is a more boring topic so I feel like I have to use a more interesting topic to trick people into the discussion I want to have.
So leaders in the context above will be thought leaders. influential people in the Jewish community with similar values who are pushing for their ideals to be accomplished. It's not nefarious. It isn't some illuminati type thing. It is just powerful people with aligned interests doing what every single one of us does.
That's not really what pilpul is nor is it any attempt to "trick" God (as if that is possible). Pilpul has to do with precise textual reading and the use of logical argumentation and textual supports to advance an understanding of a larger legal concept.
I disagree that it isn't to trick God. I know what pilpul is and we are using different words to describe the exact same thing. It seems that Jewish people often create legalistic interpretations of the word of God to escape what the spirit of his rulings are saying. Putting a water bottle under your seat when traveling seems like it would be to trick God into thinking your car is a boat because it is technically driving over water. People that do this know what God meant and are trying to be legalistic with God. They likely did the same thing in the desert when God said not to save the manna from heaven and they probably interpreted it in some legalistic way to justify saving manna and God punished them by having the manna spoil.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-test-of-the-manna/
You can say that legalistic interpretations of God's word created from pilpul are not an attempt to trick God, but just like God knew Cain's heart, he will also know the heart of anybody who tries to get around direct commands and the intention of those commands with pilpul. The Eruv roof in New York is another example of legalistic interpretations meant to trick God, though I am sure you will disagree it is an attempt to trick.
I will help here. Legalistic interpretations of scripture to avoid following scripture is in fact an attempt to trick God. You know what he meant.
You seem to know so little about Judaism and how it works and how people within it are bound or not bound by certain obligations. You should reevaluate your approach if your method is to read something, assume it is true and then impose your value system and ask why is this so.
I always start by believing any argument I see as true. I think it is only fair to the person I am engaging with. Also I don't know if I can avoid using my own value system to judge something or even if I should. If my value system is incorrect I rather use it and be challenged on my value system so if it is proven wrong I can change it.
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I am going to help you out here. The video I posted in op is not proof of much and easy to debunk. I won't do it here. It's kind of the job of the people I am debating to do it and it's boring to do so.
What other evidence did I have of Jewish intent to genocide europeans or those of european ancestry. Well I said they are trying to genocide Europeans because a lot of influential Jewish people are pushing for open border type policies or at the very least increased immigration.
before I get into the actual rebuttals let me summarize some rebuttals I heard
"Well not all Jews"
Bad rebuttal, I never argued all Jews. I just pointed out most of the highly influential people within academia and within the pro immigration movement are Jewish.
"You are antisemitic"
It's off topic and not a rebuttal. Anti semites can be correct about things just like anybody else.
Here are the actual rebuttals
There is a few ways to handle this concession without resorting to gas lighting the debater into believing his intuition is incorrect about Jewish influence on immigration. We generally know when somebody's intuition is correct and it is dumb to just make claims like "You didn't prove it" and force them to provide sources for what you already likely know is true as well. It is far more effective to concede the true points and attack how they use those points as a premise.
So the first rebuttal to this is maybe explaining the reason behind why jews are so pro immigration or why they hold so much influence in political movements in general. However I will skip the boring history lesson where we go over the fact WW2 germany is the reason jews would feel safer in a multicultural society or the religious arguments on why Jewish people feel a strong need to make the world better which is also proven through higher rates of Jewish contributions to charity at disproportionate levels even when adjusted for income. I could write a book on the above paragraph with all the research I have done and stored away.
So what is the best rebuttals that skip the history lesson or talk of spiritual traditions that promote the ideal of being an influence in changing the world.
rebuttal one that follows your concession above
1. You can't know somebody's heart even if pro immigration policies are harmful to Europeans it is likely that the Jews promoting immigration think that it is good for society in general, It isn't proof of any malevolent intent.
the 2nd rebuttal deals with the other thing that comes up in my arguments the point that the immigration movement is dominated by Jewish academics.
2. We already discovered the disproportionate Jewish belief in pro immigration policies, but why are they at the forefront of pro immigration books and pushes to create pro immigration polices. Since I specifically mentioned that so many Jewish academics are promoting these pro immigration books, we should obviously look at the fact that 50% of the people who enter academia as a profession are jewish.
https://www.bjpa.org/content/upload/bjpa/72ac/72academics.pdf obviously academics writing on immigration will be disproportionately jewish since academics in general are disproportionately Jewish.
This whole fucking site is so terrible at arguments that I almost feel like I have to stop arguing devil's advocate positions before you all get convinced to become antisemites, racists and conspiracy theorists. It was more fun on DDO when there were actually people around who could challenge me.
Seriously so many replies in this thread and my premises stood until I destroyed them. Instead of hearing rebuttals, I heard gaslighting trying to convince me that Jews were not a strong force in immigration policy. I heard personal attacks.. I heard people trying to argue strawman positions against genocide or people who tried to deflect or argue past me.
Rosend,
you are Jewish. You have a personal responsibility to destroy bad arguments. It's not a fair responsibility, however given the current climate on campuses and on the world stage and the growing rate of antisemitism you need to learn how to stand up for your people. I have some tips.
1. Actually figure out your opponent's premises and hidden premises. Restate those premises to the person to better understand them and make sure you are arguing against their actual position
2. Concede to true points like Jewish overrepresentation in segments of society such as banking or media, but contextualize the over representation so it doesn't feel so malevolent
3. Research the points they are making to understand them better than they do and then destroy them.
I thought given your name starts with rose that you were emilrose under a new name. However I doubt it. She used to destroy me in any debate where I took even a slightly antisemitic position. I did a debate on the USS liberty and she destroyed me. Not by much but she was a worse debater than me but she really knew her shit so there was no way to beat her with bullshit unless it was a subject she was not familiar with.
I was really hoping you were and alt of emilrose. I can tell you aren't.
