I challenge you to give me a single example of a concrete action Elon Musk did that was in any way usefull to society.
What has Elon Musk actually done?
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35
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@Benjamin
Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you really that dense?????
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@Benjamin
He's an innovator.
And I would suggest that innovators are "useful" for the future, and do not necessarily need to concern themselves with ongoing social issues.
Which isn't to say that they don't.
Actually I would suggest that innovators are a necessity, rather than just plain useful.
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@Benjamin
The possibility to become a name. Build an empire.
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@Amber
My sentiments exactly.
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@Amber
Throwing around insults in question form?
And the person you are trying to insult is one of the top debaters.
And you didnt even present an argument, but a link.
Do you know that links arent arguments?
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@Benjamin
I challenge you to give me a single example of a concrete action Elon Musk did that was in any way usefull to society.
I assume if the answer isn't obvious you're working off the premise that just because someone runs a company and appears from a distance to be dedicated and closely involved with its operations doesn't mean they actually do anything.
In that case there is no point answering unless I had personal knowledge of just how Musk contributed.
I do think it's a questionable premise though. There are many companies in this world and it is unlikely that he is repeatedly involved in companies with ambitious and often successful novel engineering.
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@zedvictor4
@Amber
Excactly how is Elon Musk an innovator? Paying someone actually competent to innovate or make your idea reality is NOT the same as being an innovator yourself.
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@Benjamin
The idea is the innovation.
You just seem to not like the personality for some reason.
I know very little about him.
But he seems to get things done.
And "paying" is perhaps one of the biggest obstacles that stands in the way of progress.
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@zedvictor4
Let me ask you something. Do you credit the moon landing rockets to the science fiction writers who first got the idea, or the scientists and engineers that actually made it?
Elon Musk became a self-made millionaire in 1999 when he sold a web software company for more than $300 million at the age of 27. Elon Musk's net wealth had topped $1 billion by the time he was 41.
Buying twitter to take down the propaganda center of those fitlhy liberals. This is the best he did for society, even much more than his skyrockets.
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@Benjamin
Well, to be perfectly honest.
I credit the evolutionary process and all the factors therein, that afford material development.
Which includes the development of intellect, knowledge and the ability to manipulate.
Alongside this, human society has also evolved, and is ordered and functions in a particular way.
So it's fair to suggest that any single factor retrospectively removed from the evolutionary equation, would result in a retrograde position.
The butterfly effect as it were.
Fortunately, time does not allow us to meddle either in the past or the future.
So for now, you will have to tolerate Elon Musk's existence.
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@zedvictor4
Okay, I will reveal something to you.
Do you credit the moon landing rockets to the science fiction writers who first got the idea, or the scientists and engineers that actually made it?
- This was a rhetorical question. You understood this, and also how absurd is your claim that "the idea is the innovation" so you elected to pivot entirely.
I credit the evolutionary process and all the factors therein, that afford material development.
- Did you know that "evolutionary process" is not what made the rockets.
- It was cold-hard science and engineering.
- Done by thousands of real competent people.
- So THEY ought to be credited, not whoever simply came up with the idea.
you will have to tolerate Elon Musk's existence.
- That's right, we will have to tollerate his existence, even thought he is a terrible capitalist and has not done a single usefull action that you could tell me about.
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@Benjamin
he is a terrible capitalist
Even the worst capitalist in America is better at central planning than the US government. There is no comparison between the two for space innovations despite the US government having access to far more money than Musk.
In the end, what matters is better management and more accurate predictions of future problems. These things deliver effective real-world results.
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@Greyparrot
Okai explain how excactly ELON MUSK is making spacex more efficient. It appears your argument is more that he is terrible but capitalism is better than government, not that ELON MUSK specifically has done anything concrete that was actually usefull.
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@Benjamin
The article I posted answers a lot of your questions. And as far as being a terrible capitalist, nobody was stopping other people from investing into space technology. In a world of competition, real results matter.
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@Greyparrot
The idea is the innovation.
Is a profoundly correct statement.
Remove the thinking process, and we would still be hiding up trees, out of the reach of apex predators.
What would there be without an evolutionary process of material development and manipulation?
For sure no rockets, but also no hard core science, engineering or competent people.
And social order dictates progress.
So we currently have Musk near the top of the tree.
And a thousand and one scientists and engineers, much lower down.
It's the way things work.
And I have a nice little niche somewhere near the bottom.
Though we will all succumb to the vagaries of time, in no more than a fleeting universal moment.
So one cannot afford to waste ones time worrying about what was, what is and what will be.
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@Best.Korea
-->@<<<Amber>>>Throwing around insults in question form?And the person you are trying to insult is one of the top debaters.And you didnt even present an argument, but a link.Do you know that links arent arguments?
There was no accusation. It was an observation. To understand Ben's position and how he presented it, it begged the question.
I could care less how many debates the person has been involved in. That doesn't mean anything. Those participations can easily be inflated. And they still do not establish credibility or evidence for a proferred position.
No, I did not present an argument. How very astute of you.
What was provided was EVIDENCE to counter the unsubstantiated subjective opinion about Musk put forth.
And do you know that there needs to be a ' in did not (didn't) and a ' in are not (aren't)?
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@Amber
It was an observation.
Ah I see.
You think "if observation, then "not insult"".
False as usual, but okay.
No, I did not present an argument.
Well stated.
What was provided was EVIDENCE
Random links arent evidence.
You gotta say what the link states.
No one is gonna open your links if you wont bother to explain what they say.
I didnt even look at your links and I wont even open them, and I doubt anyone else will either.
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@Amber
And do you know that there needs to be a ' in did not (didn't) and a ' in are not (aren't)?
No, I obviously dont know.
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@Best.Korea
What was provided was EVIDENCERandom links arent evidence.You gotta say what the link states.No one is gonna open your links if you wont bother to explain what they say.I didnt even look at your links and I wont even open them, and I doubt anyone else will either.
They were NOT "random links." Those were very specific subjects that go to the very heart of the question.
Your refusal to open and read them is your personal problem, not mine.
And I do not have to repeat what the article says, you can read if for yourself. I mean, it is rather apparent you are lazy and cannot handle reading the truth, but come on.
If you won't accept the truth that's on you.
You lose the debate.
Bye.
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@Amber
They were NOT "random links." Those were very specific subjects that go to the very heart of the question.
Thats your assumption.
For all I know, they could be just some random nonsense or cat images.
I dont want to read random nonsense.
And I do not have to repeat what the article says, you can read if for yourself.
Or you could post what the link says, so I dont have to open it.
I dont open links.
Your refusal to open and read them is your personal problem, not mine.
I will not be opening your links.
That is my personal problem.
Since you refuse to say what your links say, I guess we will never know if you actually told the truth, or if they are just some random nonsense.
it is rather apparent you are lazy and cannot handle reading the truth, but come on.
I dont read the truth because you refuse to post what your links say.
Now, I think your link contains bunch of lies, and really, until you post what your links say, I have no reason to open them or believe otherwise.
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@Best.Korea
Now, I think your link contains bunch of lies,
I don't care what you think.
Your denialism is your problem, and it is clear you have no interest in civil discourse.
Good bye.
Amber
And I am blocked.
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@Benjamin
I challenge you to give me a single example of a concrete action Elon Musk did that was in any way usefull to society.
Do you really think society gave him all that money for nothing? It certainly wasn't for his personality.
You know what they say, follow the money, whatever it was, society found it useful to the tune of two hundred billion dollars.
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@Sidewalker
Have you heard of something called capitalism? If you were born with money from an apartheid diamond mine, and then invest it semi-wisely, you can accumulate mountains of money without needing to provide society anything at all that you didn't just pay other people to make.
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@Benjamin
You just explained the significance of Elon Musk in 47 words.
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@zedvictor4
Excactly. Elon Musk's entire role in society is to be born rich and then DO NOTHING USEFULL. Did you not even read the start of this thread:
I challenge you to give me a single example of a concrete action Elon Musk did that was in any way usefull to society.
Being born rich and then buying stocks in tech firms is not a concrete action that is usefull to society.