The media lied to me about Jan 6

Author: TheUnderdog

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#31
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Let’s see, as a candidate in 2005, he gained notoriety by lying and saying he had found evidence the Barrack Obama was not born in Hawaii.
That happened when I was 3 years old.

But if people had no issue with Trump before he said this, fine.  I can at least understand how someone would think Trump is a racist over this.

But I honestly think some people just fall for catchy titles.

Like if someone is a flat earther, does it inheiritely make them anti sematic?  There are some flat earthers that think Jews control the weather. 

There is a difference between believing in a false conspiracy theory (Trump with Obama being born in Kenya) and being bigoted.

If Obama was born in Kenya, it shouldn't impact his ability to run for POTUS.

Then he said that immigrants from Mexico were rapists and drug dealers, again lies for the idiots in America.
This happened after the conspiracy theory that Barack Obama was born in Africa.

You claimed you hated Trump before this clip, so it wouldn't be your reason for hating Trump in the first place.  If he didn't say this horrible quote, you would still not like him.

Right, like Hitler was charismatic 
When Trump was in power, there was no genocide of 18 million people dead like there was Hitler.

Why would MAGA Jan 6 people invade a capital without guns?

That's the question I'm asking.
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#32
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The media lied to you, and you're still falling for some of it. Stop trusting them. Question motives. Notice patterns of falsehoods.
That's all mainstream media; from OAN to CNN.
Everyone wants to help their party.
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#33
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@Double_R
I think if your biggest political concern is who left wing media hates, you should just stay home.
It's not so much as who the left wing media hates, but why they hate Trump more than other republicans?

Claims that he's racist over support for a border wall.  Bush actually built the wall.  The left wing matrix didn't get angry at Bush over actually building the wall.

Being anti black?  Biden didn't get angry at his adult son for saying the N word publicly.  McCain said he's pro confederacy.

If a politician is part of the deep state swamp, they can get away with way more racist stuff than what Trump did.

Being anti Asian?  Affirmative action hurt Asians more than saying, "China virus" did.  Most Asian American voters vote blue.  Trump doesn't care; he doesn't like Affirmative action even if it benefits groups that vote against him.

With the left, they are willing to claim there is sexism because for every $1 a man makes (right wing group), a woman makes 70 cents (left wing group).  For every $1 an Indian American earns (left wing group), a white person earns 70 cents (right wing group).

I believe in meritocracy regardless of how you vote.  You are only privileged if your group earns more and your group is a right wing group.

But hey; if Indian Americans want to become a group that is at least right wing on RSG (Race, Sexual Orientation, Gender), I'll happily take the right wing support.

And if Indian Americans (most of whom are pretty dark skinned) can cause the left to not believe in white privilege, but merit privilege, hopefully this plays out to other races.  Then people see themselves as individuals and not groups.
#34
ADreamOfLiberty
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@TheUnderdog
The media lied to you, and you're still falling for some of it. Stop trusting them. Question motives. Notice patterns of falsehoods.
That's all mainstream media; from OAN to CNN.
Everyone wants to help their party.
Not everyone is equally dishonest though.

Now would you please explicitly state that you misled about 23 protestors having guns at the capitol (not the whitehouse) on Jan 6?
#35
Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
I think if your biggest political concern is who left wing media hates, you should just stay home.
It's not so much as who the left wing media hates, but why they hate Trump more than other republicans?
Which still has absolutely nothing to do with which candidate is ultimately a better choice to lead our country forward.

But thank you once again for demonstrating the point I've been making to you; that you have no core political values (other than making yourself feel above everyone else) which is why you seem incapable of understanding anyone else's worldview or why anyone else feels the way they do about political issues. Case and point:

Claims that he's racist over support for a border wall.  Bush actually built the wall.  The left wing matrix didn't get angry at Bush over actually building the wall.
The secure borders and fencing act of 06 was a practical solution to a practical problem. It wasn't the cornerstone of Bush's campaign.

You seem to have forgotten that Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans living in the US criminals and rapists. You also seem to have given no thought to what it says about Trump that the wall became his central campaign promise and yet he was never able to coherently answer the most basic questions about it, such as how or why we would build a wall across all of Mexico when there are natural barriers all throughout the border including mountainous terrain and the Rio Grande. Or why we would spend so much on this wall when the bulk of drugs are coming in through ports of entry and the majority of illegals in the country flew in and overstayed their visas.

None of this mattered because the actual wall wasn't the point, it was the chant. The wall was just a symbol of bigotry that Trump used to dog whistle to his supporters. None of them actually cared whether Trump built it as is demonstrated by the fact that his base is still as fervent as ever despite him building next to none of it. They love him because he hates the same people they do, and he wasn't afraid to signal that to them loud and clear.

But this is all stuff you would need to have some set of values over to pick up on. If you were as bigoted as his supporters you would have seen this. If you cared about migrants you would have seen this also. Yet your understanding of this whole issue is at about a third grade level. At some point you need to realize the problem is not that the media is lying to you, thre problem is that you are just not understanding the issues they are talking about.


#36
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@TheUnderdog
But I honestly think some people just fall for catchy titles.
What catchy title? Being called a racist is a catchy title?

There is a difference between believing in a false conspiracy theory (Trump with Obama being born in Kenya) and being bigoted.
He’s used this conspiracy theory to make a name for himself with bigots. About half of all conservatives are bigots in my opinion.

When Trump was in power, there was no genocide of 18 million people dead like there was Hitler.
It was 6 million Jews. How long had Hitler been in power before he started murdering Jews? First you have to scape goat them. Then you have to dehumanize them. Trump was on his way to doing this with immigrants. Now he’s attempting to do the same with Democrats.

Why would MAGA Jan 6 people invade a capital without guns?
They had guns, they just didn’t use them.  They had more guns stashed close by too.

#37
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Not talking to double R, but about him:

[Underdog] Claims that he's racist over support for a border wall.  Bush actually built the wall.  The left wing matrix didn't get angry at Bush over actually building the wall.
[DoubleR] The secure borders and fencing act of 06 was a practical solution to a practical problem. It wasn't the cornerstone of Bush's campaign.
There is only one relevant difference between Bush and Trump. Bush started wars and made blackrock (for example) lots of money. Trump didn't.

Since Bush did, he was tolerable and the deep state did not need to undermine him (hec he may have been in on it). Trump was intolerable, which is why for the first time in living memory blocking illegal immigration became racist.

Why do they hate Trump?
Because they believe he is racist.
Why do they believe that?
The media and academic institutions, puppets of the deep state, said he was racist.
Why did they do that and not for anyone else who has done far more suspicious things far more often (blackface, praising grand wizards of the KKK, etc...)
Because Trump endangers the massive theft of wealth from almost everyone (especially Americans) to the beneficiaries of the deep state (which does include all those congress people who just so happen to do very well in the stock market during their terms)

This is the theory that fits the big picture.

None of this mattered because the actual wall wasn't the point, it was the chant. The wall was just a symbol of bigotry that Trump used to dog whistle to his supporters. None of them actually cared whether Trump built it as is demonstrated by the fact that his base is still as fervent as ever despite him building next to none of it. They love him because he hates the same people they do, and he wasn't afraid to signal that to them loud and clear.
"Conspiracy Theory" = 70 million people are lying about being racist


#38
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@TheUnderdog
That happened when I was 3 years old.
Excuse me, 2015, so you were 13 yo.

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#39
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Now would you please explicitly state that you misled about 23 protestors having guns at the capitol (not the whitehouse) on Jan 6?
I'm not sure what you mean by this.  23 Jan 6 protestors out of like 2000 had guns.
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@Double_R
But thank you once again for demonstrating the point I've been making to you; that you have no core political values
I would say I'm a pragmatic leaning libertarian (my beliefs are outlined in the following spreadsheet):


But it seems that to you, if my core political values were, "MAGA all the way" (which it's not; I disagree with many stances Trump has like his immigration rhetoric, the fact that he didn't repeal Qualified immunity, the fact that he didn't legalize weed nationwide), you would still make this claim.

I would assume the only thing that counts as core political values to you are, "Stuff I already agree with".  If you actually have core values (like anti- unwanted pain) and someone else has different core values (small-government) and you both are consistent with your values, there is no point in debating values (unless you expect him to become anti- unwanted pain or vice versa).

which is why you seem incapable of understanding anyone else's worldview or why anyone else feels the way they do about political issues.
You are capping.

Claims that he's racist over support for a border wall.  Bush actually built the wall.  The left wing matrix didn't get angry at Bush over actually building the wall.
The secure borders and fencing act of 06 was a practical solution to a practical problem.
What was the practical problem that Bush solved that Trump wouldn't solve by building a wall?

 It wasn't the cornerstone of Bush's campaign.
So you believe it's okay to advocate tough deportation measures as long as you don't make it central to your campaign?  I think whether someone makes it central to their campaign or not is irrelevant.  If someone like Richard Spencer ran on a UHC platform and hid his white nationalism, you wouldn't vote for him because you know he's a white nationalist.

You seem to have forgotten that Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans living in the US criminals and rapists.
If I say, "Men are rapists", it's not sexist.  It merely means there exists at least 2 men are rapists.

None of this mattered because the actual wall wasn't the point, it was the chant. 
Actions speak louder than words.

Lets say there are 2 people (Person A and Person B).  Person A says they will rob $11,000 from you; they rob $200.  Person B doesn't advertise their robbing at all; they rob $400.  Who are you more mad at?  Person B.

Trump is Person A (Claims he wants to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants while only deporting about 200K/year), Obama is Person B (Doesn't massively advertise it, but deports about 400K/year).

 If you were as bigoted as his supporters you would have seen this. If you cared about migrants you would have seen this also. 
I didn't like Trump in 2016.  2024 Trump is different.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
What catchy title? Being called a racist is a catchy title?
The catchy title is the false conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Africa.  Trump believes some weird conspiracy theories, but it's not fair to call someone who thinks the moon landing is fake (conspiracy theory) as racist.

He’s used this conspiracy theory to make a name for himself with bigots. 
So you are saying Trump started the conspiracy theory?

When Trump was in power, there was no genocide of 18 million people dead like there was Hitler.
It was 6 million Jews. 
It was 17 million people (Holocaust victims - Wikipedia).  Whether the people that died in the Holocaust were Jewish or not is irrelevant.  The Holocaust was bad because a lot of people died.  It would be just as bad if 18 million Jewish people died in the Holocaust as if 18 million Somalians died in the Holocaust.  Jews (assuming all else is equal) deserve the same right to live as Somalians (or Rednecks, Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, etc.).  Genocide is bad no matter who it is against.


How long had Hitler been in power before he started murdering Jews?
July 1932 German federal election - Wikipedia states Hitler started being in power in 1932.  The Holocaust was in 1944 I think.  That's 12 years.

Trump won't be in power 12 years.

First you have to scape goat them. Then you have to dehumanize them. 
If his scapegoating is incorrect, point out where he is incorrect.  Like if he says, "Illegal immigrants are rapists.", find out what percentage of them commit rape.  Like when the GOP said, "Muslims are terrorists", the left pointed out what percentage of Muslims are actually terrorists, and this allowed the right to be more accepting of Islam (even to the point where the right likes certain Muslims like Andrew Tate and Dr. Oz).

If you believe the vast majority of undocumented immigrants aren't rapists, cite the percentage and run on that.

And don't do, "Undocumented immigrants are (more/less) likely to commit rape than the native born".  It's easy for right wing media to disagree with this.  Instead, state the percentage of undocumented immigrants that are rapists.  If hypothetically, .5% of undocumented immigrants are rapists and .1% of the native born are rapists, the undocumented are 5x as likely to be rapists, and Fox News would run with that.  

But does it make sense to punish every undocumented immigrant based on things only .5% of them do?  No.

Make that your argument and the only way Fox News could be able to rebuke it is if they say something like, "90% of undocumented immigrants are rapists" (which seems highly inaccurate and should be easy to rebuke).  But if they make this claim, an undocumented immigrant could hypothetically be like, "I'm in the 10% that isn't a rapist" and the right wouldn't be against them.

The moment you start calling large parts of the country bigoted when really they are easy to manipulate, you turn them off.  You need good marketing.

Now he’s attempting to do the same with Democrats.
You won't be able to genocide 1/3 of the country with the 2nd amendment in place (many left wingers have guns too).

They had guns, they just didn’t use them.  They had more guns stashed close by too.
Where is your evidence for this?

Excuse me, 2015, so you were 13 yo.
So he started the conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Hawaii?

If he did this, he would have to at least defend why he's doing it.  If he's doing it because Obama is black, that is racist/grifting (I don't approve of either).  If he actually believes some other rationale, then it's what he actually believes and he wouldn't be racist, just gulliable.

Like theflatearthsociety.org I think is wrong on the earth's shape.  But they aren't grifting; it's what they actually believe.

Is Trump a racist grifter or a conspiricy theorist?  It's an open question.  If he was a conspiricy theorist, I wouldn't vote against someone solely based on them believing strange conspiricy theories.  I believe in a few (like I think we are living in a simulation).  It doesn't change how I would run the country if I had power.
#42
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@TheUnderdog
The catchy title is the false conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Africa.  Trump believes some weird conspiracy theories, but it's not fair to call someone who thinks the moon landing is fake (conspiracy theory) as racist.
That wouldn’t be fair. But I don’t get your comparison. Trump said that Obama wasn’t born in America in order to appeal to racists who refuse to believe a black man could be or should be President. 

So you are saying Trump started the conspiracy theory?
Is that a serious question? Use your brain Underdog 

Whether the people that died in the Holocaust were Jewish or not is irrelevant.
I don’t recommend repeating that little gem . It may offend a lot of people.

Just read your own source - According to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum(USHMM), the Holocaust was "the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jewish men, women and children by the Nazi regime and its collaborators". In addition, 11 million members of other groups were murdered during the "era of the Holocaust".[1]

states Hitler started being in power in 1932.  The Holocaust was in 1944 I think.  That's 12 years.
Right. FYI, when I ask someone a question in a debate, I already know the answer. I’m trying to see if the other person knows because the answer will enlighten the person on the subject. In this case, you said Trump isn’t as bad as Hitler because he didn’t murder millions of people. My answer is it even took Hitler time (12 years) to create an environment for mass murder.



#43
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@TheUnderdog

If you believe the vast majority of undocumented immigrants aren't rapists, cite the percentage
Just the slightest amount of critical thinking skills should tell you that is true. If you watch credible media you would have learned that long ago when Trump first made his ridiculous and racist claim designed to appeal to racists.

The moment you start calling large parts of the country bigoted when really they are easy to manipulate, you turn them off.  You need good marketing.
No, MAGA MORONS and racists don’t believe facts. That’s what makes them morons.

Where is your evidence for this?
JC, don’t you read the newspapers? What is wrong with you? Are you even aware there was a months long investigation and report of 1/6 by the House that was televised?

“Defendants have said as much as well. In video evidence played at his trial, Guy Reffitt of Wylie, Tex., said that as he stood near the front of the mob on the west side of the Capitol, he counted eight firearms carried by five people.
Reffitt said that his count included his .40-caliber pistol and his Texas companion’s .45-caliber handgun, five firearms carried by a couple he met at the Capitol and a .22-caliber weapon carried by a woman who stopped to help him after he was hit with bear spray”



#44
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@TheUnderdog
Is Trump a racist grifter or a conspiricy theorist?  It's an open question.  
No, it’s not. Not to a reasonable person, and that is a standard used throughout our criminal code. 

The question is, are you a reasonable person or an unreasonable person?

#45
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@TheUnderdog
Now would you please explicitly state that you misled about 23 protestors having guns at the capitol (not the whitehouse) on Jan 6?
I'm not sure what you mean by this.  23 Jan 6 protestors out of like 2000 had guns.
No they did not. That number is false. You were misled. Review:

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#46
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Trump said that Obama wasn’t born in America in order to appeal to racists who refuse to believe a black man could be or should be President. 
I'm not sure that is accurate; he would have said something similar about Ben Carson if that had a chance of being true.  Obama is half white; Carson is less than half white.

Is that a serious question? Use your brain Underdog 
Yes, it is.  The answer is either yes or no.

Whether the people that died in the Holocaust were Jewish or not is irrelevant.
I don’t recommend repeating that little gem . It may offend a lot of people.
Who would get offended by me saying that whether Holocaust victims were Jewish or not has nothing to do with how bad their murder is?  Are you saying a lot of people think one of the following claims:

  1. A Jew getting murdered is worse than a Gentile getting murdered?
  2. A Gentile getting murdered is worse than a Jew getting murdered?
Because I think homicide based genocide is horrible no matter who is effected!

In this case, you said Trump isn’t as bad as Hitler because he didn’t murder millions of people. My answer is it even took Hitler time (12 years) to create an environment for mass murder.
And Trump isn't going to be in power for 12 years.  We have term limits and the 2nd amendment in this country.  Trump won't be POTUS in 2030.

If you believe the vast majority of undocumented immigrants aren't rapists, cite the percentage
Just the slightest amount of critical thinking skills should tell you that is true. 
Yeah, and I do believe the vast majority of the undocumented are not rapists or similar, but not everyone connects the dots.  People didn't connect the dots when the left said vasectomies would prevent abortion.  People didn't connect the dots when if the left wants to end deportations of all victimless undocumented immigrants, then they should have no problem welcoming them into their counties.

People don't connect the dots in their head.  Both the left and the right listen pretty much exclusively to their own media stations.

But if you don't want the undocumented deported, are you fine with the undocumented being in your county?  I don't want the undocumented deported, so I'm fine with them being in my county.

If you want other people to not deport the undocumented in their counties but you want the undocumented out of yours, it's hypocritical.

“Defendants have said as much as well. In video evidence played at his trial, Guy Reffitt of Wylie, Tex., said that as he stood near the front of the mob on the west side of the Capitol, he counted eight firearms carried by five people.
Reffitt said that his count included his .40-caliber pistol and his Texas companion’s .45-caliber handgun, five firearms carried by a couple he met at the Capitol and a .22-caliber weapon carried by a woman who stopped to help him after he was hit with bear spray”
That's one person.

There were Jan 6 protestors with guns.  But they were a tiny portion of the Jan 6 protestors.

No, it’s not. Not to a reasonable person, and that is a standard used throughout our criminal code. 
It is a reasonable question.

The question is, are you a reasonable person or an unreasonable person?
I'm a reasonable person.  I just think I'm more reasonable than you are.  I don't go around insulting people because they disagree with me on policy issues.  You seem kind of insecure, so you kind of do.




#47
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@TheUnderdog
I'm not sure that is accurate; he would have said something similar about Ben Carson if that had a chance of being true.
Trump attacked Carson for having an “pathological disease and for being violent for the brief time he threatened Trump’s victory.

There were Jan 6 protestors with guns.  But they were a tiny portion of the Jan 6 protestors.
No, a tiny portion of 1/6 protesters were seen carrying guns. Who knows how many guns were actually there or easily retrieved if gunfire had erupted.
But at least you now understand some protesters did have guns. You are making progress.

I'm a reasonable person.  I just think I'm more reasonable than you are.  I don't go around insulting people because they disagree with me on policy issues.  You seem kind of insecure, so you kind of do.
Nonsense deserves nothing but derision. You and I are NOT discussing policy issues. We are discussing the reality of January 6. Up until a few minutes ago you didn’t believe there were guns brought by 1/6 protesters. This happened 3 years ago and has been thoroughly investigated. Many people have been sent to prison and more are going to prison. 



#48
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 if gunfire had erupted.
It did erupt, lol. 

Many people have been sent to prison and more are going to prison. 
Heil Biden!

#49
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Heil Biden!
In your world only blacks should go to prison 

#50
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You aint Black!
-Biden
#51
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You aint Black!
It’s amazing you think this is some kind of revealing quote.  But everything you say is stupid, and you have no problem saying the same stupid stuff over and over.


#52
sadolite
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The media never lies and there are no govt govt conspiracies. You are being told the truth about everything 100% of the time. Your information and news sources are batting 1000.
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#53
TheUnderdog
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Trump attacked Carson for having an “pathological disease and for being violent for the brief time he threatened Trump’s victory.
I haven't heard that one before.  But if he said that, Trump has a higher probabiltiy of being racist at that point, although he insults a lot of people.  He insulted McCain (somebody that said he's pro confederacy).  If you insult a racist like John McCain, it doesn't mean you aren't racist, but it means there is a higher probability he is not racist.

But you believe Trump and a large subset of his supporters are racist (lets call them Top Trump Gang (aka Top G) and Top G denies being racist.

You, as someone that despises racism has a vested interest in Top G denying to be racist.  Imagine if they agreed with you that Trump is racist, that they were racist, and that racism is good.

Now there is a large part of the country that accepts racism.  At that point, being racist is about as much of an insult as being republican; racists would be very common.

The word, "racist" only has huge amounts of power because virtually everyone (>95% of the US population) strongly denounces racism.  If 25% of the country is proud to be racist, then the label ceases to have nearly as much power.

You are using the word, "racist" as if it has the power of virtually everyone being against it, while claiming the label applies to many people.

Either racism is super rare (<5% of the US population) or super common in the US( about 20% of the US population).  If you believe it's super rare, then you would believe that most Trump supporters aren't racist, because between 40% and 60% of the US voting population will vote for Trump probably and even if it's 40%, then most Trump supporters aren't racist.

If racism is common, then it's no longer the objectively strong insult you think it is.

It's like when the left says some person is transphobic because they believe only people with XX chromosomes are female.  The majority of the US population would be transphobic according to that definition according to pew research, so it's not the insult you think it is no matter how strong your personal opinions on transgenderism are.

No, a tiny portion of 1/6 protesters were seen carrying guns. Who knows how many guns were actually there or easily retrieved if gunfire had erupted.
But at least you now understand some protesters did have guns. You are making progress.
Oh; so you were saying the Jan 6 people were conceal carrying?  That seems more believable I think.

PolitiFact | Jan. 6 defendants were armed with guns, other weapons, documents show states that 430 people in the Capitol then brought guns.  Now, I don't think thousands of Jan 6 protestors entered the Capitol then; I thought most were outside.
#54
ADreamOfLiberty
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On the subject of how the media lies:

#55
Greyparrot
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The media is scripted professional tv wrestling. Some people still think it's real.
#56
IwantRooseveltagain
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The media is scripted professional tv wrestling. Some people still think it's real.
That’s funny, because the same people who watch wrestling, and think it’s not scripted, vote for Donald Trump.

#57
Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
I would say I'm a pragmatic leaning libertarian (my beliefs are outlined in the following spreadsheet):

Political leanings and values are not the same thing. Anyone can answer a multiple choice question, caring about the question is another thing.

But it seems that to you, if my core political values were, "MAGA all the way", you would still make this claim.
No, I wouldn't. I make this claim for the same two reasons I've been explaining to you for weeks now; because you have shown no ability to understand anyone else's viewpoint left, right, or anything else, and because I've never seen you engage in deep discussion defending any of these values you seem to think you hold. All you do here is make one post after another calling everyone else hypocrites while strawmanning them most of the time. The only value you have demonstrated here is the need to paint yourself as being above partisanship.

And the exclamation point to all of this is declaring that you would vote for Trump on the basis of the fact that left wing media hates him. That's not what person who cares anything about any actual issues would do.

So you believe it's okay to advocate tough deportation measures as long as you don't make it central to your campaign?  I think whether someone makes it central to their campaign or not is irrelevant
You didn't pay attention to a word I said.

Governing and campaigning are two totally different things. Governing means running a beurocracy, dealing with the day issues that arise and finding solutions. Every Congress passes dozens of bills every cycle that you never hear them talk about because governing is a job.

Campaigning is a statement of what your values are and who you intend to appeal to. Trump's signature campaign promise was a border wall yet he built next to none of it in his 4 years. He did manage to separate children from their families though. It turns out the wall was not the point, what his voters wanted was someone who was going to do anything, no matter how borderline illegal and definitely inhumane it was. That's what his supporters were actually responding to everytime he chanted "build that wall".

So again, this isn't rocket science, the wall itself was not the point. That's why it was a very different thing when Bush did it. Do you understand?

You seem to have forgotten that Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans living in the US criminals and rapists.
If I say, "Men are rapists", it's not sexist.  It merely means there exists at least 2 men are rapists.
Ok, now that's just plain stupid.

It's also notable that you use literally the most generic and top of the chain group there is to which (I believe) you are a part of. That is an entirely different thing than singling out brown people in the US. Why do I need to explain this to you? Could it be that you don't really care about any of this and are just trying your level best to make anything I say sound contradictory so you can beat your chest and once again declare yourself above it all?

I didn't like Trump in 2016.  2024 Trump is different.
Oh yes, he is far more dangerous this time around. If you care about democracy and the rule of law that is.