Something I hope Jews are willing to condemn

Author: TheUnderdog

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@TheUnderdog
I need evidence to back that claim up.

I already posted links.

"It found about half of the 1,000 children in custody in England and Wales have experience of the care system, despite fewer than 1% of all children in England, and 2% of those in Wales, being in care."

"Children in care are six times more likely to be cautioned or convicted of a crime than other young people, new research has found."


Foster care is related to 50% of criminals in prison. Compared to that, being abused by map is not related to even close that many.


Giving a baby a blowjob is a subset of infant rape which is a subset of child rape.
Maybe by law, but anyone sane would agree that its less bad than vaginal or anal penetration.

Foster care isn't great, but is your solution to foster care to let pedophiles adopt babies?  That's probably not a good idea.
Thats how it worked for thousands of years in some countries. When child loses all family, it often used to be that child gets married to an adult. Foster care didnt exist back then, and early marriages were normal. Foster care is definitely a worse system, and a more expensive system too.

I thought you believe children can consent to sex.
Children can want sexual activities. The desire to have sex doesnt always start at age 18.
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@oromagi
In the United States, many entertainment events are restricted to those over the drinking age (21+) or to those who are legally adults (18+). An event that is open to those who are legally children – primarily (non-adult) teens (13–17) and sometimes tweens (roughly 8–12) – is referred to as an all ages event.
To me, all ages and family friendly are synonymous.

But if Castlemann meant something different from the phrase (which is possible), then he's not advocating for having sex with kids.

I'm just a very literal person, so I read things very litterally.
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@Sidewalker
But, when I saw you thinking of two-month-old babies as "lovers", I thought "WTF", "Holy Shit" and "this place is a fucking freak show".
What my mind does is it goes to the extreme with what someone could mean.  I'm not trying to imply that I am a pedo (I'm not).

An example of this is there was this transwoman that did a red flag tik tok and she said, "I'm transgender, so I don't have any red flags", and I'm thinking from it, "Not even being a murderer is a red flag to you?"  If she didn't finish the Tik Tok, I would have assumed she was willing to date a murderer.

That's just where my mind ventures.
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@Best.Korea
Giving a baby a blowjob is a subset of infant rape which is a subset of child rape.
Maybe by law, but anyone sane would agree that its less bad than vaginal or anal penetration.
I don't know why vaginal or anal rape would be worse than oral rape if the victim can't get pregnant.

Thats how it worked for thousands of years in some countries. When child loses all family, it often used to be that child gets married to an adult. Foster care didnt exist back then, and early marriages were normal. Foster care is definitely a worse system, and a more expensive system too.
Possible; it's a new point honestly.  I haven't heard of it before.

But that means pedophiles are really going to be able to have access to a really small subset of kids.

I would assume though that if a kid is with a pedophile; that pedophile is going to be raping that kid way more than what the foster system would do.  If a kid gets raped in the foster system by an adult, that adult is a pedophile.

Lets say (even though I don't agree with this) that a 5 year old can consent to sex.  Why would they consent to sex with a pedophile that adopted them and not a pedophile that runs the orphanage?

If I, as a straight leaning man had to pick between having sex with Woman A vs Woman B; I would want to know how they are different before I make that decision.

How is a pedophile that adopts different from a pedophile that runs a foster home?
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@TheUnderdog
I don't know why vaginal or anal rape would be worse than oral rape if the victim can't get pregnant.
Well, a blowjob doesnt hurt as much.

I would assume though that if a kid is with a pedophile; that pedophile is going to be raping that kid way more than what the foster system would do. 
In foster system, there is much more physical abuse and medications. Physical abuse is more likely to turn someone into a criminal.
And having future of ending up in prison as adult is no good for the child.

Lets say (even though I don't agree with this) that a 5 year old can consent to sex.  Why would they consent to sex with a pedophile that adopted them and not a pedophile that runs the orphanage?
I assume they can reject sex in both cases. 


But that means pedophiles are really going to be able to have access to a really small subset of kids.
They are map, not pedophiles. But there can be a standard for who can adopt. As it is right now in USA, each year, over 20,000 children leave foster care without being adopted. They are basically just kicked out on the street.
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@Best.Korea
Well, a blowjob doesn't hurt as much.
We are both virgins.  How would you know that?

In foster system, there is much more physical abuse and medications. Physical abuse is more likely to turn someone into a criminal.
And having future of ending up in prison as adult is no good for the child.
I would assume the pedophile adopting the kid could result in similar things.  If I was in a relationship with a woman, we have sex like 100x, and then she starts withholding sex from me because I'm not doing something significant that she wants (like buy a new car), I wouldn't rape her, but I would be fucking pissed off and I think a lot of guys would at least have an affair at that point.  I hope I wouldn't, but I can at least understand a guy doing it.

That's me vs a woman (my equal).  A pedophile with a kid (his inferior) is going to produce much worse results.

 As it is right now in USA, each year, over 20,000 children leave foster care without being adopted. They are basically just kicked out on the street.
Those "kids" are like 18-21 years old when they get kicked out.  I don't think people like you would be sexually attracted to young adults.

I assume they can reject sex in both cases. 
If they do reject sex, who is more likely to rape them?  The government employee who raises kids for the state (and gets paid for what they do, so they have to keep things professional and they are certainly vetted to make sure they aren't sexually attracted to kids), or somebody that has a sexual attraction to kids and pays for 100% of the living expenses for the kids, so they feel entitled to have sex with them (even if the kids have the ability to consent but don't consent)?  I think it would be person #2.

 But there can be a standard for who can adopt. 
There already is a standard.  How would you modify it?
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@TheUnderdog
How would you know that?
Really? You think blowjobs hurt?

 A pedophile with a kid (his inferior) is going to produce much worse results.
Thats an assumption.

I would assume the pedophile adopting the kid could result in similar things.
You can assume anything, but only 14% of prisoners were sexually abused as children. Compared to that, 38% or more were physically abused. Therefore, physical abuse is worse than sexual abuse. And a lot more come from foster care into prison.

If they do reject sex, who is more likely to rape them?  The government employee who raises kids for the state (and gets paid for what they do, so they have to keep things professional and they are certainly vetted to make sure they aren't sexually attracted to kids), or somebody that has a sexual attraction to kids and pays for 100% of the living expenses for the kids, so they feel entitled to have sex with them (even if the kids have the ability to consent but don't consent)?  I think it would be person #2.
You can make as much assumptions as you want, but sexual and physical abuse is very common in orphanages.
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@TheUnderdog
There already is a standard.  How would you modify it?
Allowing some map to adopt would reduce number of children in foster care significantly. Currently, over 20,000 children exist foster care without being adopted. Just kicked out.
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@Best.Korea
Really? You think blowjobs hurt?
They can have STIs that last with me the rest of my lives; and the thought of me putting my physical body in someone's mouth makes me worried they would bite my dick off.


You can assume anything, but only 14% of prisoners were sexually abused as children. Compared to that, 38% or more were physically abused. Therefore, physical abuse is worse than sexual abuse. And a lot more come from foster care into prison.
I count sexual abuse as physical abuse, so sexual abuse is a subset of physical abuse.

If they do reject sex, who is more likely to rape them?  The government employee who raises kids for the state (and gets paid for what they do, so they have to keep things professional and they are certainly vetted to make sure they aren't sexually attracted to kids), or somebody that has a sexual attraction to kids and pays for 100% of the living expenses for the kids, so they feel entitled to have sex with them (even if the kids have the ability to consent but don't consent)?  I think it would be person #2.
You can make as much assumptions as you want, but sexual and physical abuse is very common in orphanages.
You dodged this.  Do you believe that orphan leaders are going to be more likely to rape kids than pedophiles that adopt the kids?  Please initially answer yes, not sure, or no, and then justify it.
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@Best.Korea
Allowing some map to adopt would reduce number of children in foster care significantly. Currently, over 20,000 children exist foster care without being adopted. Just kicked out.
The kids that get kicked out of foster care entered when they were like 13.  

A better way to reduce the number of kids in foster care is to make it free to adopt; all expenses related to initially adopting the kid (lawyer fees) could be taxpayer covered and the kids would go into non pedophile run homes.
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@TheUnderdog
They can have STIs that last with me the rest of my lives; and the thought of me putting my physical body in someone's mouth makes me worried they would bite my dick off.
Thats extremely rare, but okay.

I count sexual abuse as physical abuse, so sexual abuse is a subset of physical abuse.
Thats just your assumption where you label two different things the same.

Do you believe that orphan leaders are going to be more likely to rape kids than pedophiles that adopt the kids?  Please initially answer yes, not sure, or no, and then justify it.
Thats irrelevant. You are only talking about possibility of rape, and ignoring physical abuse and foster care children being likely to fill prisons.
And most map arent violent, while most foster care systems are.
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@TheUnderdog
The kids that get kicked out of foster care entered when they were like 13.
And who would adopt a 13 year old except map?

A better way to reduce the number of kids in foster care is to make it free to adopt; all expenses related to initially adopting the kid (lawyer fees) could be taxpayer covered and the kids would go into non pedophile run homes.
Adopting children isnt expensive. People just dont want it.
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@Best.Korea
Thats extremely rare, but okay.

Do you believe that orphan leaders are going to be more likely to rape kids than pedophiles that adopt the kids?  Please initially answer yes, not sure, or no, and then justify it.
Thats irrelevant. 
I'll assume the answer is a no; that pedophiles are more likely to rape kids than orphan leaders.

 ignoring physical abuse and foster care children being likely to fill prisons.
Do you believe that foster care is more likely to produce abuse than a foster parent that sees their kid as a sex object?  This claim requires evidence.

And most map arent violent, while most foster care systems are.
Most people attracted to kids aren't violent, and most people who aren't attracted to kids aren't violent.

I imagine someone that adopts a child for the purposes of having sex with that child is going to do sexual things to the child that the child does not consent too (if we accept that children have the ability to consent, these children would choose to not consent).

Pedophilia was normalized for millennium and then it got outlawed.  There was a reason for that (children don't like being raised by someone that wants to use them for sex).  Religion isn't the reason; religious people tend to advocate for marrying young so you are more likely to wait until marriage to have sex.  Mary was 13 when she was pregnant with Jesus; religion isn't the reason pedophillia got outlawed.  It got outlawed because children should be protected; children do not know what's best for them.  If all that mattered was children's feelings, then it would be acceptable to let your kid eat 50 Oreos a day if they wanted too.

Such a kid often doesn't vomit at the end of it; meaning they often eat 50 Oreos a day, and it feels really good, the kid likes it, but it screws the kid up when they are obese and diabetic.

Children should get protected by their superior and smarter and more expierienced parents.
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@TheUnderdog
What percentage of map have incurable STI?

that pedophiles are more likely to rape kids than orphan leaders.
Thats again, irrelevant to the main point.
Also, you assume that all map who arent allowed to adopt would just remain sexually inactive.

Do you believe that foster care is more likely to produce abuse than a foster parent that sees their kid as a sex object? 
Foster care makes 25% to 50% of prison population. Sexual abuse makes up 14%. Physical abuse makes 38%.
Sexual abuse happens at foster care, but physical abuse is much more common.

I imagine someone that adopts a child for the purposes of having sex with that child is going to do sexual things to the child that the child does not consent too (if we accept that children have the ability to consent, these children would choose to not consent).
This is an assumption. You can imagine all map as monsters, but thats not an argument.
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@Best.Korea
What percentage of map have incurable STI?
The data on that is not available and neither one of us knows every single person that is sexually attracted to people.  In addition, if you know any other people that are sexually attracted to minors, it's very possible the proportion of those people who have an incurable STI is very different from the national average among the pedophiles.  Even some people are born with incurable STIs.

that pedophiles are more likely to rape kids than orphan leaders.
Thats again, irrelevant to the main point.
What is the main point then?

Also, you assume that all map who arent allowed to adopt would just remain sexually inactive.
Well, they are more likely to remain sexually inactive if they don't adopt kids than if they have have what they view as a sex source living with them.

I am more likely to have sex with a woman I live with than a woman I don't live with (assuming neither is related to me).

Foster care makes 25% to 50% of prison population. Sexual abuse makes up 14%. Physical abuse makes 38%.
What if there was a foster kid that was in foster care and got sexually abused by their parents?  That person might easily go to prison.

Any kid adopted by pedophile parents is going to possibly endure sexual abuse, but also will have less effects from foster care than if they stayed in there for 2 more months than they would have if a pedo adopted them.

So not letting pedophiles adopt (for the kid) means a slight increase from the foster system in terms of going to prison, but I think a significantly less risk of going to prison based on sexual and physical abuse.

This is an assumption. You can imagine all map as monsters, but thats not an argument.
I think in the majority of cases, the kids would get treated as sexual partners.  Which means they are less likely to get their school work done if it's work they don't want to do (they can always use sex as leverage to get out of schoolwork, which makes the kid stupider as time goes on). 

Pedophilia was normalized for millennium and then it got outlawed.  There was a reason for that (children don't like being raised by someone that wants to use them for sex).  Religion isn't the reason; religious people tend to advocate for marrying young so you are more likely to wait until marriage to have sex.  Mary was 13 when she was pregnant with Jesus; religion isn't the reason pedophillia got outlawed.  It got outlawed because children should be protected; children do not know what's best for them.  If all that mattered was children's feelings, then it would be acceptable to let your kid eat 50 Oreos a day if they wanted too.

Such a kid often doesn't vomit at the end of it; meaning they often eat 50 Oreos a day, and it feels really good, the kid likes it, but it screws the kid up when they are obese and diabetic.

Children should get protected by their superior, smarter, and more experienced parents.

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@TheUnderdog
The data on that is not available
STI are usually the result of having many sexual partners. Afghanistan has less percentage of STI than USA, despite Afghanistan having child marriages and USA trying to protect children from that.

Well, they are more likely to remain sexually inactive if they don't adopt kids than if they have have what they view as a sex source living with them.
This is an assumption. Some map have over 300 partners. When you make something entirely illegal, you also make it entirely unregulated. Plus, children in foster care have high chance of being sexually abused. 

What if there was a foster kid that was in foster care and got sexually abused by their parents?  That person might easily go to prison.
Foster care contributes much more to prison population than sexual abuse. Therefore, reducing the amount of children in foster care reduces prison population. We can also conclude that reducing time in foster care is beneficial.
There are cases where parents sexually abuse their child, but sending that child to foster care isnt beneficial.

So not letting pedophiles adopt (for the kid) means a slight increase from the foster system in terms of going to prison, but I think a significantly less risk of going to prison based on sexual and physical abuse.
That is an assumption.
Foster care contributes the most to prison population. Physical abuse also contributes 38%. Sexual abuse contributes only 14%.
Most map arent violent, so we can say there would be much less physical abuse with map than with foster care.
But foster care basically guarantees physical abuse, and has high rates of sexual abuse.
That is the point.
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@Best.Korea
STI are usually the result of having many sexual partners. Afghanistan has less percentage of STI than USA, despite Afghanistan having child marriages and USA trying to protect children from that.
Correlation vs causation fallacy.  Afghanistan also banned premarital sex and the US didn't.  That could be the reason just like pedophillia laws may be the reason.

 Some map have over 300 partners. 
Those kids are almost certainly getting STIs from that pedophile (all while these kids might not even know what STIs are).

When you make something entirely illegal, you also make it entirely unregulated.
When something is legal and regulated, there will be people that brake regulations as well.  Like my brother drinks alcohol underage.

Plus, children in foster care have high chance of being sexually abused. 
What percentage of foster kids get sexually abused in foster care (not from prior pedophile parents, but from actual foster care)?

Foster care contributes much more to prison population than sexual abuse. 
Also, a child I would imagine is much more likely to be in foster care than they are to be sexually abused.  Child Maltreatment & Neglect Statistics | American SPCC states that 50,000 kids get sexually abused a year.  50 Foster Care Statistics for 2023 (sevitahealth.com) states there are over 430K kids in foster care.

So if foster kids are about 8.5x as common as sexually abused kids but only twice as many foster kids are in jail compared to child sex abuse victims, I can argue pedophilia is more damaging to kids than foster care.

There are cases where parents sexually abuse their child, but sending that child to foster care isn't beneficial.
If the child doesn't report it, the kid isn't traumatized and the parent doesn't get prosecuted.

Many things are commonly done that are illegal (but the law doesn't go after them because no real damage was done).  Speeding and underage drinking are examples.  The law is there to have a standard.

I noticed you didn't address my Oreo analogy twice.

Most map aren't violent
This is an assumption and it depends on your definition of violent.
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@TheUnderdog
Correlation vs causation fallacy.  Afghanistan also banned premarital sex and the US didn't.  That could be the reason just like pedophillia laws may be the reason.
Having lots of sexual partners is more correlated to STI. Thus, reducing number of sexual partners reduces STI.

Those kids are almost certainly getting STIs from that pedophile (all while these kids might not even know what STIs are).
So do you agree that its better if less children get abused? A map being bonded to one child is less likely to have 300 partners. 
And adoption is usually for couples, so instead of two maps each abusing many children, you would have two maps abusing one child.

When something is legal and regulated, there will be people that brake regulations as well. 
People are more likely to respect regulation if regulation exists. And regulation is ultimately more beneficial for map and children than complete ban. One can understand easily that map would be more likely to respect regulation that benefits them than resort to a much more risky path that carries little to no benefits. If regulation allows them to be with children legally, they would be less likely to go for much greater risk.
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@TheUnderdog
What percentage of foster kids get sexually abused in foster care (not from prior pedophile parents, but from actual foster care)?
Its difficult to say for sure, but there were many cases of sexual, physical and emotional abuse.

"In Florida, a longtime foster parent who had housed over 70 children during his time in the system was found to have repeatedly raped a child and placed hidden cameras in the bathroom to watch her shower. He saved the video footage of the molestation, which remained unknown until he was arrested. Unfortunately, caseworkers were unaware of the abuse and continued to send foster children to the home."

"MacLaren Hall is one of the most of the most well known examples. Likely thousands of children were victimized by this state-run group home, which operated for more than 40 years. MacLaren Hall is referred to as a “child prison”, and not only were the living conditions terrible, but hundreds of former residents have come forward with details about the sexual abuse they faced by doctors, staff, and other children."

"A Johns Hopkins University study found that children in foster care are four times more likely than other children to be sexually abused, and those who live in group homes experience an abuse rate of 28 times those of other children. There are indicators that children living in a foster care situation may be more likely to experience abuse at the hands of their foster parents or other people living in the home."

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@TheUnderdog
Also, a child I would imagine is much more likely to be in foster care than they are to be sexually abused. 
About 15% of children get sexually abused before 18. So thats over 50 million people in USA. Does foster care have 50 million people? No. It only has 400k. Yet foster care makes up to half of prison population. In some prisons, there is even 70% of foster care, but the average is usually 25 to 50% for adult prisons and 50% or more for child prisons.

If the child doesn't report it, the kid isn't traumatized and the parent doesn't get prosecuted.
Its actually a common misunderstanding that report comes from the child. The report usually comes from others who find out about relationship.

This is an assumption and it depends on your definition of violent.
Most map wont punch a kid or beat a kid up. Most map wont force themselves on a child. In fact, judging from statistics, most map wont even use threats to get what they want.
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@Best.Korea
Having lots of sexual partners is more correlated to STI. Thus, reducing number of sexual partners reduces STI.
Correct, but if those STIs are obtained when you are a mentally developed person that understands the long term effects of STIs, it is less important than someone who doesn't know what they are signing up for.  You have some adults stupid enough to spend $40K/year on college; there are colleges where they can go that are a lot cheaper.

So do you agree that its better if less children get abused? 
Yes.

A map being bonded to one child is less likely to have 300 partners. 
You said in Afghanistan, some pedophiles there have 300 sexual partners (all of which they are married too because Afghanistan law prohibits premarital sex).  I don't know how you marry 300 people, but apparently, you said it happens.

And adoption is usually for couples, so instead of two maps each abusing many children, you would have two maps abusing one child.
It's not ok to abuse children that you adopt.

People are more likely to respect regulation if regulation exists. 
That's not always true.   Up until recently, weed was illegal in my state.  Then they legalized it for people at least 21.  Young people are consuming weed in my state more I think than previously when weed was banned for everyone, although I'm not sure if this is true.  

"A Johns Hopkins University study found that children in foster care are four times more likely than other children to be sexually abused, and those who live in group homes experience an abuse rate of 28 times those of other children. There are indicators that children living in a foster care situation may be more likely to experience abuse at the hands of their foster parents or other people living in the home."
The 2 paragraphs before this were anecdotes.  But you are suggesting transferring kids from one source of potential child rape (state run orphaniches with a pedophille employee) to another potential source of child rape (a pedophile foster parent).  There are 2 possibilities:

  1. This increases the rate of child sex abuse by X% (X>0).  I this is the case, then the idea was a tried plan, it didn't work, and it gets dropped.
  2. This decreases the rate of child sex abuse by X% (X>0).  If this is the case, then I would support the idea and I hope more people do and this policy should stick around.
The only way to know for certain is to experiment with it (it should be a state by state experiment to minimize the bad effects of the experiment if it goes south).  Experiments should be run to see what happens.  But you need a few states to be willing to run the experiment, and those leaders of those states aren't going to get elected by their representatives, who get emotional whenever kids get experimented on (even if the goal is to reduce child rape in the long term).  People aren't logical or rationale with their kids.  Everyone wants other people to do the experiment so their kids are less likely to face child rape if the results are successful in reducing child rape, but nobody personally wants their state to be the one that has the experiment done.

About 15% of children get sexually abused before 18. 
My family has 3 kids.  If 15% of kids get sexually abused before 18, that means 85% don't.  .85^3=.6141, 1-.6141=.3858.  This means my family has a 39% chance of having at least one kid get sexually abused (and that's just out of the people willing to admit it).  It might have been me, but my level of abuse wasn't severe enough for me to report it to the cops.  It's not that I'm scared of repurccions, I just don't feel like it victimized me.  But all the other people who are in a situation like me have parents that like laying on top of kids but it doesn't scar them to the extent of reporting it to the cops.  I wasn't naked or anything like that.  It was my Dad just laying on me when I was like 8, clothes on (both of us).  It wasn't what I would imagine child rape was.  But I think the 15% figure is definitely massively inflated; otherwise pedophilia wouldn't be so prosecuted in society because it would be very common.  If something is common enough, it doesn't matter if it's homicide, society will accept it (like eating meat, where society uses human supremacy arguments they wouldn't use if meat eating was as rare as conventional homicide).

The report usually comes from others who find out about relationship.
I could believe though that there are times when a child shouldn't get liberty but should get security because children do not know what's best for them; their parents would.  Is it ok for a child to do what they consent to if it doesn't harm anyone else if that means eating 100 Oreos a day?  What about heroin?  They aren't harming anybody else.  At least the Oreo addiction is pretty breakable; once you lose your virginity (I would assume), it's very hard to stay abstinent after that and it leads to an addiction that kids aren't really ready to handle.  

You can maybe give your kid maybe 10 Oreos occasionally, but 100 every day is crazy whether the kid would like that or not.

Children should get security more than liberty relative to adults.

Most map wont punch a kid or beat a kid up. 
Most adults don't punch 8 year olds, so it's not a fair comparison.

Most map wont force themselves on a child. In fact, judging from statistics, most map wont even use threats to get what they want.
What statistic are you referring too?
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@TheUnderdog
What statistic are you referring too?
I think I already mentioned before in some other topic that The Trauma Myth talks about those relationships, and most of them arent violent.

Now, obviously, every case is different. You said that you didnt want to report your case. Well, there are probably many other children who dont report.

There are many studies and statistics, but even if you take lowest numbers, its still lots of cases.

"Research shows that one in 10 children will be the victim of sexual abuse before their 18th birthday."


Even 10% is 34 million people in USA.

And I gave you links before that 30% of children in USA have sex before 16.

Children having sex with other children cannot really be less bad than child doing something sexual with non-violent map. If sexual activities were very bad, they would be very bad in both cases.